Cartoons #1 Educational Problem!

[Neil D]

Here's the report from the John S and James L. Knight Foundation-

Eductional Report

Among its findings:

* Nearly three-fourths of high school students either do not know how they feel about the First Amendment or admit they take it for granted.

* Seventy-five percent erroneously think flag burning is illegal.

* Half believe the government can censor the Internet.

* More than a third think the First Amendment goes too far in the rights it guarantees.

[Dr. Shane]

First of all, Brother Neil, I didn't help a Republican get re-elected. I helped a Republican challenger who lost. Unlike many Kerry voters, I wasn't a sore loser. I didn't cry foul. I didn't accuse the Democrat of stealing the election (although the assistant campaign manager did).

Our Democrat opponant was for NCLB and the Republican (whose wife is a teacher) was against it. The Democrat is not terribly liberal and has done a good job for our district. I have no ill feelings toward him. If he were pro-life I would probbally support him.

NCLB does have lofty goals and they may have to be adjusted in time. But again, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

[Rosie]

Quote:

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Here's the report from the John S and James L. Knight Foundation-

Among its findings:

* Nearly three-fourths of high school students either do not know how they feel about the First Amendment or admit they take it for granted.

* Seventy-five percent erroneously think flag burning is illegal.

* Half believe the government can censor the Internet.

* More than a third think the First Amendment goes too far in the rights it guarantees.

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Well this just goes to show that parents need to supplement what the schools are neglecting to teach if we want our kids to be knowledgeable (as opposed to ignorant) citizens and future leaders.

I ran a few pertinant questions (about the 1rst Amendment) by my 10th grader. He knew the answers. Whew. (Having a sda mother might have something to do with that, though. ) We have a lot of political "discussions" in our home.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Neil.

[Amelia]

PBS stations to air lesbian-promoting cartoon

Despite criticism from education secretary, own network's cancellation

Posted: February 2, 2005

2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Despite a rebuke from the new education secretary and an official cancellation by PBS, several large affiliates of the public TV network say they will air today a controversial episode of "Postcards from Buster," a cartoon series for pre-schoolers, that portrays homosexuality.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42660

[Neil D]

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NCLB does have lofty goals and they may have to be adjusted in time. But again, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

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I have no problem with lofty goals. I have no problem with idealistic goals...What I have a problem with is being lied to. I also have a problem with politicians who have no qualifications attempting to affect my son/daughter's future in the area of education without good counsel. I have a problem with sleasy PR that looks good, but with a bit of investigation shows itself not a little bit lacking...

The president tonight lied to us regarding the "performance gap" in the NCLB. I say lied, because the available stats don't back him up. And I wish that someone in the democratic party would look into it, seriously.

[Neil D]

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But again, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

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The problem is NOT throwing the baby out with the bath water...The problem is the kid is drowning.

Come on, Shane....Get yer republican friend to seriously look at the law...

[Michelle]

I haven't read this thread in a couple weeks, and have to say that Neil has hit the nail on the head. Shane seems to think that only teachers who can't make the mark are against this policy. No, the teachers I know are highly intelligent, very caring, incredibly devoted teachers (one of whom, working in SC, worked almost full-time outside of school in order to support his "teaching habit" as his wife called it--he loves to teach, even in a state which doesn't compensate teachers very highly).

Also, Shane seems to gloss over the fact that test-taking only measures how well you can take a test. I, for one, am very good at taking tests, and always cruised through school--I would totally coast if I were in school nowadays! (not that I'd learn anything, but hey, it would be an easy trip!) OTOH, there are many students who have severe difficulties taking tests. They may be very intelligent, but they don't test well. Well, we just consign them to the failure basket because we're basing EVERYTHING on these tests and nothing on any other abilities.

Truly, when I look at the US educational system, it seems as though it is moving in the direction of the HK educational system (ironically, the HK system is moving AWAY from it as a failure). THere are students here in HK who, when they fail the Form 5 (like grade 11) test, will commit suicide because they have NO options open to them--they can't attend any HK-based college, because you MUST pass the form 5 to advance to form 6, and you must pass the form 7 to be admitted to college. THese students are force fed "information" so that they can pass the tests, but they are not taught to think, reason, figure things out.

My husband teaches in a program HKAC has, which is called college foundations. It's for kids who failed the Form 5--kind of like a grade 12 prep for college. THey have intensive English education, as well as other classes. If they do well, they can come to HKAC and later transfer to a college in the US if they wish. Well, 2nd quarter grades were just finished last week, and only one student (out of 24) got an A from my DH and the other teacher he teams with in speaking/listening class. He got an irate email from one student who was absolutely furious that he had received a C while this other student got an A. My husband met with him for almost 2 hours to discuss/explain the grading system (which they had gone over at the beginning of 1st quarter). It took quite a while for the kid to grasp that his grade was actually based on participation and homework, AS WELL AS the final test. He was so shocked--he said, do you mean, in the US, a grade in college is not based only on the test? My dh said, well, that's up to an individual teacher, but mostly, no, there is a combination of assignments, participation AND test. Now that he understands that the entire grade does NOT rest on the quarter exam, he is willing to work harder to make sure his English improves and that he gets a better grade next quarter.

This is what happens when you base everything on tests. I see nothing wrong with looking at a test such as Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS) which most SDA schools administer yearly. This is a general test to see that students are being taught the basics in each area--good for schools, teachers, and students to look at and can help with an overall picture of the school, teacher, and student. However, testing should NEVER be the SOLE, or even MAJOR, requirement for advancement in grade, graduation, acceptance in college, etc.

M

[Dr. Shane]

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Shane seems to think that only teachers who can't make the mark are against this policy.

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Wrong, please reread my posts and let me know where I misled you.

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Shane seems to gloss over the fact that test-taking only measures how well you can take a test.

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No, Shane asked the question, how else can we measure what a student has learned? If there is a better way than testing, let's use it.

In the Mexican universities they don't have any quizes or progress tests - just a final exam. The grade you get on the final exam is the grade you get for the class. Now I think that is scary. Again, tell me about a better way to measure knowledge and I will lobby the government to use it.