Gay Marriage

[Dr. Shane]

I already answered the question....

Quote:

That has always been one of the concerns!! When an institution accepts monies from the government, strings are attached. Loans and grants are individually liable, not the institution one sends the money too. Big difference...you knew that.... didn't you??

This was the question:

"Do you believe the government should be able to tell us which doctrines we can and cannot teach at our universities because our students receive pell grants, student loans and GI Bill?"

It specifically was addressing the issue of doctrine. By dictating the religious doctrines we can or cannot teach, the government would violate the First Amendment. The earlier comment seemed to indicate that if the Catholic adoption agency accepted government funds, then the government would have the right to violate their religious liberty. I was asking if CoAspen felt the same about Adventist universities that accept government funds. Does the government have the right to violate our religious liberty just like it did the Catholic adoption agency? His answer avoided my question. So I asked it again.

[Dr. Shane]

But as was suggested above, a common-law marriage is acceptable as long as one has some type of proof of their contract or what is known as a marriage covenant.

It just depends on the state or country. As Christians, we are to submit to the civil authorities as long as so doing doesn't violate God's law. So we should be married in such a way that the civil government will recognize.

[Dr. Rich]

Shane, do you mind if I ask why? Hmmm? Lets see now, in my research it appears that the word 'Marriage' comes from (handed down) from what we get from the bible and from God. If we got the word and meaning of marriage from God, then what is it that you don't understand about the things of God's being His and His alone?

And Shane, please don't bring up Romans 13. If you use that excuse then you might as well take the mark of the beast when it comes down the road. Right now I am privy to Gov. authorities of FEMA contacting clergy from many southern churches to tell them to make sure their congragations obey civil authorities because it was God who set up the rulers and if you do not obey, then you are going against what Paul wrote in Romans 13.

Jesus told us in John's writings that the ruler of this world is Satan. Now tell me, whom do you want to trust?

As for the Judges ruling in Prop 8 AND against AZ's law, both of these judges violated the constitution! The ONLY court allowed jurisdiction to hear STATE issues is the United State Supreme Court. (Check it out)

I for one am sick and tired of listening to a bunch of dummies who have never even read the bible nor have read the whole constitution! What these people ought to be demonstrating against is the evil banking system that made all of us victims! I hate evil!

[Overaged]

It should be pretty simple then Doug. All the Government has to do is stop trying to fiddle with something God already has figured out; and forbid others to do the same.

When I said that we don't need the government or state involved in our marriage; I was not advocating that Christians don't need government laws; or that we should not obey civil powers. My only point is that when it comes right down to it, the state's definition of "Family Law;" is much different than God's definition. One is found in The Yellow Pages, under "lawyers," or "Family Law." The other is found in the Holy Bible. We could live without the so called "family law" in the yellow pages; our marriages are not dependent on government laws for their true nature - for their very survival.

But what we cannot do is to call something marriage when it is not.

[Stan]

The church, gave marriage over the civil governments, in most places.

[Overaged]

LOL, sometimes, Dr Rich, sometimes you come up with some very biopic, gelatinous "research;" but for the record, Satan tries constantly to be involved in marriages by perverting them from God's ideal. He only wants 2 things from everybody. He wants your testimony, and he wants your marriage. Unfortunately, what we see today is a lot of people just handing it all over to him.

[DeeAnna]

Really, Satan wants everything we have. If he can get people to just not acknowledge that he even exists, he's won everything, hasn't he ? I am shocked that so many people don't even believe that he even exists. More and more people just believe we are "just here" and anything we do is "ok" . I think its all getting very scary to watch.

[doug yowell]

Really, Satan wants everything we have. If he can get people to just not acknowledge that he even exists, he's won everything, hasn't he ? I am shocked that so many people don't even believe that he even exists. More and more people just believe we are "just here" and anything we do is "ok" . I think its all getting very scary to watch.

Yep.

[doug yowell]

It should be pretty simple then Doug. All the Government has to do is stop trying to fiddle with something God already has figured out; and forbid others to do the same.

When I said that we don't need the government or state involved in our marriage; I was not advocating that Christians don't need government laws; or that we should not obey civil powers. My only point is that when it comes right down to it, the state's definition of "Family Law;" is much different than God's definition. One is found in The Yellow Pages, under "lawyers," or "Family Law." The other is found in the Holy Bible. We could live without the so called "family law" in the yellow pages; our marriages are not dependent on government laws for their true nature - for their very survival.

But what we cannot do is to call something marriage when it is not.

I think we're in agreement. Marriage had it's beginning in creation. Like the 7 day week, it's definition has been unanamously accepted by every culture on earth.The attempt of those to redefine it is an attempt to exert their moral authority over the rest of the world in place of God's established order.

[Overaged]

I believe that we are basically in agreement too Doug...for a minute there; I just thought maybe you didn't like my stove pipe pants

[Overaged]

Really, Satan wants everything we have. If he can get people to just not acknowledge that he even exists, he's won everything, hasn't he ? I am shocked that so many people don't even believe that he even exists. More and more people just believe we are "just here" and anything we do is "ok" . I think its all getting very scary to watch.

[doug yowell]

I believe that we are basically in agreement too Doug...for a minute there; I just thought maybe you didn't like my stove pipe pants

"stayin alive,stayin alive." Some people just don't appreciate individualism.Love the pants.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Yep, we all have been ever so slowely cooking away like one would cook a frog. But as was suggested above, a common-law marriage is acceptable as long as one has some type of proof of their contract or what is known as a marriage covenant. My own son had a non-licensed wedding and it worked out fine until they got a licensed later, and ya, then they got divorced.

A Common-law Marriage is only acceptable where the law allows it. It is NOT allowed everywhere.

Marriage has a civil function distinct from the religioius. The government controls the boundaries of the civil function.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

What really constitutes marriage? What makes it legal?

The State has determined that marriage has a civil function and role. As such, the State has determined the boundaries for the civil function and role.

[Guest]

Really, Satan wants everything we have. If he can get people to just not acknowledge that he even exists, he's won everything, hasn't he ? I am shocked that so many people don't even believe that he even exists. More and more people just believe we are "just here" and anything we do is "ok" . I think its all getting very scary to watch.

I agree.

[Gordon1]

Dr. Rich, thanks for the early marriage contract research. Do you know the date of the first American marriage licence? Did this formality hail from Great Britain?

As for Clergy Response Teams, this issue deserves its own thread - clear evidence of Church-State partnership with SDA compliance.

Clergy Response Teams: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1439286/clergy_response_teams/

[Gordon1]

The State has determined that marriage has a civil function and role. As such, the State has determined the boundaries for the civil function and role.

Gregory, are you supportive of the state's assumption of God's order?

Many lawmakers have already decided that the Sabbath has a civil function and role.

[Gordon1]

A Common-law Marriage is only acceptable where the law allows it. It is NOT allowed everywhere.

Marriage has a civil function distinct from the religioius. The government controls the boundaries of the civil function.

Hi Gregory,

Please explain more fully these two points.

1. What is the civil function of marriage, distinct from the religious?

2. Where is "common-law" marriage 'disallowed'? What are the penalties for common-law marriage in these juridictions? Do you simply mean such marriages are not recognized ('acceptable') by secular authorities?

[Gregory Matthews]

Common law marriage: This is a legal recognition by the State that a marriage, as defined by the State, exists outside of a marriage license and/or a formal ceremony. Once that recognition has been extended to the couple, it can only be terminated by either death, formal divorce, or a decree of the court that annuls it. Further, upon legal recognition by the State marital laws related to property and children apply. Often it will take a formal recognition by the civil court that the legal requirements to establish a common law marriage have been met to establish that marriage. IOW, typically a common law marriage does not exist prior to a legal decision that it exists.

Without having an exact figure, there are quite few jurisdictions where common law marriages are nto recognized.

Co-habitatution alone does not establish a common law marriage. In every place where it is recognized, there are requirements established by law that must be met before it can be said to exist. As such does not establish a common laws marraige, no penalities exist for co-habitatution.

Common law divorce does not exist.

[Gregory Matthews]

Civil funciton of marriage:

The civil authorities determine the boundaries of marriage--the requirements that must be fulfilled in order for a couple to be married, who,and under what circumstances. The requirements that must be met to terminate that marriage. The legal obligagtions that each person has to each other, the chldren that may come and to society.

All of the above are civil functions that belong to the State and not to the Chruch. The Church should not determine the child support that must be paid upon divorce. The Church should not determine the obligations that one spouse might have to pay the debts of the other spouse. The Church should not determine the spousal support that should be paid upon divorce. Civil government should.

[Gregory Matthews]

God's order:

Outside of a Theoracacy, God has given government a civil role that Christians should obey. This includes marriage. See my previous post of examples of the civil role.

[Gregory Matthews]

Common law marraige is recognized in 11 States and the District of Columbia.

13 States have never recognized it.

26 States that once recognized it no longer do.

[Overaged]

Common law marraige is recognized in 11 States and the District of Columbia.

13 States have never recognized it.

26 States that once recognized it no longer do.

Once again; the mistake is being made here in your comments of calling something "marriage;" when in fact it is not. The state calling it "marriage;" does not make it so.

[Gregory Matthews]

It may not be marriage in the spiritul world.

In the civil realm government (civil authorities) define marraige.

As I am speaking in the civil sense, I am not makaing a mistake.

Common law marriage is a civil term related to law. If I am going to discuss it, I should discuss it in civil terms.

[Gordon1]

God's order:

Outside of a Theoracacy, God has given government a civil role that Christians should obey. This includes marriage. See my previous post of examples of the civil role.

Thanks for your explanations and opinions Gregory.