Moderators Gerr Posted August 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2009 Paul says in Rom 7:6 that "we are released from the law." What did he mean/what does it mean to be released from the law? Does it mean, as some think, that believers are released from obedience to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 No that's not what it means at all Gerry. I will expound on this a little when I get back from church, and eating with my friend Wilma. I think this will be a good thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Richard, While you are at it would you tell me what Paul meant by Rom.10:15: For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 If we aren't released from the law .... I am guilty and will not be living with Jesus in Heaven. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2009 Richard,While you are at it would you tell me what Paul meant by Rom.10:15: For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. Romans 10:15 (New International Version)-- 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" Romans 4: 13-18-- The Promise Granted Through Faith 13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 1, 2009 Administrators Share Posted August 1, 2009 Quite simply, it means we are forgiven. The law has no grace or forgiveness. It serves only to convict and condemn us for violating it. Violators must pay the penalty. When a condemned prisoner is pardoned, he is released from the punishment or penalty the law requires. The penalty is canceled and no further payment for the violation is required. Since we all have and continue to be violators of the law, we are powerless to do anything to escape the penalty which is a death sentence. To be saved from certain death, something outside of the law must intervene. The only one able to overcome that requirement of the law is the Lawgiver. The will of God is to forgive. But to avoid the accuser's charge that He was disregarding the law's requirements, God determined that He would pay the law required death penalty Himself. And once that requirement was overcome, the prisoners of the consequence of the law are released, set free - forgiven. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 If there is no law then how can I be forgiven for my sins under the law? If Jesus Christ died to pay the penalty for my sin under the law and He subsequently did away with that same law was not His death for nothing, since without Law there is no condemnation? If there is no condemnation why did He have to die? Why didn't He just do away with the Law in Eden, not put Adam and Eve under a death sentence because of grace, and not have to die on the cross? That would have been a lot simpler. Can a sinner be sentenced to death if there is no law under which he is convicted? Without the Law how would the Righteous Judge be able to decide whether someone had sinned or not? What criteria would He have to be able to judge guilt or innocence? And if you cannot be judged innocent because there is no Law then how can you gain the reward of eternal life? If "no law, no violation" applies then would not "no law, no vindication: also apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 1, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2009 It doesn't say that God abolished His own law. Jesus' death proved that God's law cannot be abolished or changed. If it could be abolished, Jesus did not need to come and die. Paul is not saying the law is done away with. Check out Romans 3: 31 and Romans 6 & 8. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It doesn't say that God abolished His own law. Jesus' death proved that God's law cannot be abolished or changed. Check out Romans 3: 31 and Romans 6 & 8. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. What an honor He confers upon us, in urging us to be holy in our sphere, as the Father is holy in His sphere. And through His power we are able to do this; for He declares, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matt. 28:18). This unlimited power it is your privilege and mine to claim. {AG 268.7} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Quite simply, it means we are forgiven. The law has no grace or forgiveness. It serves only to convict and condemn us for violating it. Violators must pay the penalty. When a condemned prisoner is pardoned, he is released from the punishment or penalty the law requires. The penalty is canceled and no further payment for the violation is required. That's right, which dosn't mean the law was done away with, just that the prisoner was pardoned. Does that clear it up for you Musicman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matt 5:17 What a contrast between the words of the Divine Teacher, and the language of those who claim that Christ came to abrogate the Father's law, and to do away with the Old Testament! Our Saviour, who knew all things, understood the wiles of Satan, the snares by which he would seek to entrap the children of men, and hence made this positive statement to meet the questioning doubts and the blind unbelief of all coming time. {RH, September 27, 1881 par. 2} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maschil Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Remember this,. especially with Paul. He is a lawyer, so you must read the whole book, and base conclusions from what he has said previously.. As people have answered corretly. Paul is saying that we are free from the law of sin and death... Rom 3-6.... specifically show this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Paul says in Rom 7:6 that "we are released from the law." What did he mean/what does it mean to be released from the law? Does it mean, as some think, that believers are released from obedience to it? Yes! Now it is true that the believer has a change of direction, but we are not under the authority of the law..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Ok, I went back and read Rom 3-6 I looked at the picture as a whole, but still certain texts jumped out at me. Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; There are those who say righteousness is not a gift. I guess they think we can attain it on our own. Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. To which I would like to add: Lam 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. And Lam 3:25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. As far as I am concerned, the Christ who died is the same Christ who came back to life, Paul speaks as if it was someone different. What Paul is implying is that Christ's body died and His Spirit was raised (see Rom. 1:1-3). Christ died to the Law and when we die with Christ we are released from the Law and now serve in newness of the Spirit and not "oldness" of the "letter". Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. So Paul is saying, if we want to keep the Law in our mind and break it in our flesh that is fine, because we are saved by grace. 2Cor. 3:6-9 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. Paul calls the Ten Commandments the ministry of death and condemnation! 2Cor. 3:15-18 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Liberty: The condition of being not subject to restriction or control. The right to act in a manner of one's own choosing. Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- Why do we observe the seventh-day Sabbath? If we have been given liberty than we are no longer under Law but under grace and as long as we keep someday or no day what does it matter. It matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Richard,While you are at it would you tell me what Paul meant by Rom.10:15: For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. For the one under law there's wrath. As Paul said in Romans 2:13, "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." In other words hearing a sermon on the law or even agreeing with the law is not enough, you must do it. See also Gal 3:10.... You see no matter how good you think you are the law says, "there's none righteous, not even one." So to be under law means death...the 2nd death. However, if you have accepted your death "in Christ" then the law is completely satisfied with you because as far as the law is concerned "you died to the law in the body of Christ" (Rom 7:4). Since the law views you as dead then there's no transgression for a dead man can't sin. Now of course you are alive and well...and you're sinning (hopefully less), but because of your position "in Christ" the law can no longer touch you. Reject Christ as your source of imputed & imparted righteousness and you'll come back under law. What happens then? Wrath! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 wayfinder, Of course it matters. You are missing Pauls whole point. He is not saying what you claim he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 You are talking about the Ten Commandments, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 What Paul is implying is that Christ's body died and His Spirit was raised (see Rom. 1:1-3). Christ died to the Law and when we die with Christ we are released from the Law ..... That body is your body....It is your humanity.....Christ, as God, took upon His sinless Deity, your fallen life. Hence you died with Christ over 2,000 years ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 That is not what Paul is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 You are talking about the Ten Commandments, right? All the laws found in the book of the law,...that includes the 10 CC.... Remember the 1888 GC....Many SDA were saying that the law in Galatians was the ceremonial law....Here, first let's read it: 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Anyway, EGW came out and said the law in Gal. was especially the moral law.....Find it ....read it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 So Paul is saying, if we want to keep the Law in our mind and break it in our flesh that is fine, because we are saved by grace. That's not what he's saying. He plainly states: Rom 8:13... For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maschil Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: wayfinder What Paul is implying is that Christ's body died and His Spirit was raised (see Rom. 1:1-3). Christ died to the Law and when we die with Christ we are released from the Law ..... That body is your body....It is your humanity.....Christ, as God, took upon His sinless Deity, your fallen life. Hence you died with Christ over 2,000 years ago.... i kind of like the idea but don't like the language, Romans 6 says we are burried with Christ but i think PAUL IS EMphasizing us following Christ example not so much us dieing with Him 2000 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 That is not what Paul is saying. Sure it is....When did you die? 2Co 5:14 - For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. Romans 6:6 we know that our old self [old life] was crucified with him ... When was Christ crucified? Well, you died with Him.... Let's say I lived 2000 years ago....I met your great, great, great...etc grandfather....Only thing I was a bad guy and killed him. Would you be here? No! Why not? Your life died with him....Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: wayfinder So Paul is saying, if we want to keep the Law in our mind and break it in our flesh that is fine, because we are saved by grace. That's not what he's saying. He plainly states: Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. That means if your feed the flesh...if you take the attitude nothing is wrong with sin...heck, let's enjoy sin...let's get drunk..let's go down to the booby bar...let's sleep with all the women we can...let's just flat out live for the flesh, well, you'll reap trouble....Remember that the flesh is anti-god...so if you feed it as a life style it will get your mind to denounce Christ.... But we don't grow by looking to the law....We grow by "obeying the gospel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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