Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 For what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Robert got put out for 90days for calling musicman a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I guess for his choice of words, he was not specific. He is my friend and at times I have taken issue with his choice of words or his exuberance. He means well he is just expresses himself in a unique way. He has mellowed since he has been attending my Sabbath school class over the last 15+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Mellowed huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Must have benn a real fireball 15 yrs. ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 You have no idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Now I don't have anybody to argue with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 RH, Does that mean you will miss him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I guess so. yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Jhn 8:56 Sounds like Abraham knew Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 He knew God and He was shown that God would be made flesh and blood (Son of Man), but as far as being a Christian he would have had to been taught by Christ and a follower of Christ. Technically a Christian is one who learns and follows the teaching of Christ. Paul's teaching if it is the same as Christ's teaching then that would make Paul a disciple of Christ. To verify that we must compare Paul's teaching with what Christ taught, this is what I have been saying all along. No one has shown me where what Christ taught, as recorded by His eyewitnesses is the same that Paul taught. My point is this, if Abraham were, by extension a Christian, than did he follow Christ's teaching or Paul's? How would it be possible to follow a teaching of a teacher before they start teaching? Christ said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. Those who find Christ have followed the way that leads to Christ, they have found the way through the truth, led by the Spirit of Truth, and the result is eternal life. Mt 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Those who believe in Christ are many, those who learn the teaching of Christ are few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Paul taught the gospel of Jesus. Jesus told his disciples there were things he couldn't explain right then because they wouldn't understand. Paul was one of the explainers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 RH, That is not what Jesus said. Paul was not an explainer. Jesus said the Spirit of Truth would lead the disciples into all truth, not another apostle. Show me where Paul taught the disciples anything! Show me where they worked together. Your statement is merely an unsupportable assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 No he didn't explain to them, but he did to others. He preached Jesus to more people than all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 RH, This brings me back to the original statement. Show me where Paul's teaching and Christ's teaching are the same, for instance, Christ proclaimed the kingdom of heaven/God, Paul taught Christ crucified; these are not the same. Christ taught that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven to gain eternal life. Paul says one must die with Christ to have life. One teaching is to be born of the Spirit and one is to die and be resurrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 They do not contradict each other. To be born again you must die to self. The carnel, or the flesh must die so you can be born again of the spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Paul does not say to die to self, he says "I am crucified with Christ therefore I no longer live, but Jesus Christ lives in me (Gal.2:20). Paul does not say die to self anymore than Christ died to self. In fact Paul says "I no longer live", so the spirit of Christ is living in his body. Jesus taught obedience to the will of God, which is the truth. When we are obedient to the truth we are no longer self centered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Right. It's just a matter of semantics. Paul did say die to self, just not in those words. And Jesus did die to self because he was tempted in all points just like we are. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 If we walk after the Spirit we will be led into all truth. We will be scantified by the truth, which is the word of God. When Christ was crucified He did not die to self, He died the second death to remove the second death from us, so those who love and practice the truth would not taste of the second death. This is not the same as being crucified with Christ it is payment made by Christ on behalf of those who would be born again and enter the kingdom of God. Paul did not say die to self, he said die to the flesh and live to the Spirit, this Jesus never taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 It's the same thing!! You're being tripped up by semantics. Jesus died to self while he was alive. He was tempted like us. He denied himself. He could have turned the stones into bread, and he was hungry. But he denied himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Jesus demonstrated what perfect obedience to the Father's will is. He did not want to suffer and die, but there was no other way to accomplish the requirement to restore God's authority over this world, I respectfully disagree that it is only semantics. Jesus told His disciples that the gosple of the kingdom is the message to go to the entire world, not the gosple of Christ's death. Yes He was tempted and so are we. We are not to fall into temptation any more than He was not to fall into temptation. We will fall, but we must determine in our minds and hearts to resist temptation and the more we resist the more we can achieve the victory over the wiles of the evil one. What we do have is the truth, therefore the lies of the evil one will be exposed. Ge 4:7 " If you do well, will not {your countenance} be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." Sin desires to master us, but we must master it. Jesus said anyone who sins is a slave of sin... You will know the truth and the truth will set you free. He does not say My death will set you free, He says My word will set you free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 His life and death is the gospel. If he had not died, you could not go to heaven. All the truth in the world wouldn't get you there if he had not died. That is the truth. That is the gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor29 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 God has always had total authority in all of creation, including this world. God alone is sovereign. Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 That's right Richard, if it were not for the merits of His sacrificial death upon the cross, there would be no hope for anyone for we must ever look toward Calvary and with the simple faith of a little child rest in the merits of Christ, accept His righteousness and believe in His mercy. For the merits of Christ's shed blood blot out transgressions, clothe us with the robe of Christ's righteousness woven in the loom of heaven which is made manifest in obedience to the commandments of God. See Evangelism,185,186. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutz13 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 His life and death is the gospel. If he had not died, you could not go to heaven. All the truth in the world wouldn't get you there if he had not died. That is the truth. That is the gospel. Indeed. "But Jesus, turning to them, said: 'Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, 'blessed are the barren wombs that never bore, and breast which never nursed!' Then they will begin to say to the mountains 'fall on us!' and to the hills, 'cover us!' for if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?"(Luke 23:28-31) "By the green tree, Jesus represented Himself, the innocent Redeemer. God suffered His wrath against transgression to fall on His beloved Son. Jesus was to be crucified for the sins of men. What suffering, then, would the sinner bear who continued in sin? All the impenitent and unbelieving would know a sorrow and misery that language would fail to express."(Desire of Ages, Page 743) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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