Richard Holbrook Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I can under stand what you just said olger. But Robert has me confused. What are you trying to say Robert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Sorry Rich. I aimed that at Bobbert and the wind blew it off target G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 And according to Jesus, we do not make void or destroy the Law.So just because you like the law...or agree with the law, everything is okay....? No, the law doesn't care if you like it or not...it demands two things: obey and live, disobey and die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Robert has me confused. What are you trying to say Robert? About what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook Robert has me confused. What are you trying to say Robert? About what? Are you a law thrower outer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Sorry Rich. I aimed that at Bobbert and the wind blew it off target :)G That's Mr. Bobbert for you sir.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert About what? Are you a law thrower outer? 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Just checking. Sometimes you make me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Just checking. Sometimes you make me wonder. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law....[Rom 7:6]....How? :You also died to the law through the body of Christ" [7:4]....."When One died, all died".... "our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with" [6:6] You see you died "in Christ"....Your substance...your humanity was "in Him"....Not as an individual, but your life...your corporate humanity was there. How? Where did you come from? Mom and dad, right? You are literally part of their flesh and blood....Now go all the way back to Adam....That's where you came from, only after the fall.....You are bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh....Hence you share Adam's fallen life. That life, from Mary, Christ took into Himself as God. That life belongs to all of us....It is our humanity...it is our shared humanity. It belongs to you. Hence, your substance died in the humanity of Christ.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't know Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't know Robert Well, the "in Christ" motif answers the law because your life from Adam died....Also, Christ defeated "sin in the flesh" because this life tempted Him from the cradle to the grave...but He never for a moment gave into it....So "in Christ" your life was made obedient to the law.....So "in Christ" you obeyed and "in Christ" you died the curse of the law....Sunday morning Christ was raised with a glorified humanity free from all sin...Hence "in Him" you have a new humanity by faith....You receive this humanity at the resurrection. Does that make void the law....No, the gospel fulfilled the law....It has been answered "in Christ"....Now that you have accepted this does that mean you should enjoy and condone sin as a lifestyle? "By no means"....Why? You died in Christ....So now reckon yourself to be dead to sin and alive to God....That's the goal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Can you show me where the Son of God taught this, while He was here on earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutz13 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Well, the "in Christ" motif answers the law because your life from Adam died....Also, Christ defeated "sin in the flesh" because this life tempted Him from the cradle to the grave...but He never for a moment gave into it....So "in Christ" your life was made obedient to the law.....So "in Christ" you obeyed and "in Christ" you died the curse of the law....Sunday morning Christ was raised with a glorified humanity free from all sin...Hence "in Him" you have a new humanity by faith....You receive this humanity at the resurrection. Does that make void the law....No, the gospel fulfilled the law....It has been answered "in Christ"....Now that you have accepted this does that mean you should enjoy and condone sin as a lifestyle? "By no means"....Why? You died in Christ....So now reckon yourself to be dead to sin and alive to God....That's the goal.... Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Being "under the Law" mean that which we look to for salvation doesn't it? We are not looking to the Law for salvation, but rather to Jesus. And according to Jesus, we do not make void or destroy the Law. According to Jeremiah, a distinguishing feature of the New Covenant is the writing of the Law upon the hearts of His followers, making the Law much more intimate within the believer. g True. The New Covenant always comes in to remind us that the Law is "written on the heart" instead of "Abolished". Hence Paul argues "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we Establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31. And he goes on to say in 1Cor 7:19 "but what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: olger And according to Jesus, we do not make void or destroy the Law. So just because you like the law...or agree with the law, everything is okay....? No, the law doesn't care if you like it or not...it demands two things: obey and live, disobey and die Correction. That would be the view of the law from the standpoint of the lost person. A view you seem to have a lot of clarity on - - no question about it. But Olger was talking about the New Covenant perspective of the Law of God -- that would be the view of the Law from the standpoint of the SAVED person. An entirely different context as it turns out. Hence his reference to the Gospel-centric "New Covenant" principle of the Law written on the heart. That not-so-subtle detail keeps getting lost in your responses. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Well cut my legs off and call me shorty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Ok "shorty" what was that about Was it something I "said"?? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 So you and Robert don't see eye to eye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Ok now -- let me see - where are those emoticons... In a word -- "no". (If only Robert were here now - I know he would enjoy this as much as I) in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Where's Robert when you need him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 He was just explaining that stuff to me a few minutes ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Can you show me where the Son of God taught this, while He was here on earth. John 15:3 You are already clean [purified/righteous] because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Now remain in me [i.e., by faith remain "in Christ"], and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me [by faith] and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hence Paul argues "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we Establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31. Out of context....You do not establish the law. To establish the law means the law is completely satisfied with your performance.....That means you would be without sin...and you know that's not true. I don't know what version you are using, but an accurate version does not say "by our faith"....It says, "by the faith"...."The faith" means Jesus....In other words does justification by faith (that's the context of Romans 3) do away with the law? No! Why not? "The faith" (Jesus) established the law.....And we were "in Him" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 "New Covenant" principle of the Law written on the heart. Written on the heart...means written in your mind, which is no longer carnal....The carnal mind hates God's law (agape). Your mind in now in harmony with agape (as in love is the fulfillment of the law). Your desires are now opposite the desires of your sinful nature....But unless you surrender your mind to God the law written in your heart means nothing and you'll serve the flesh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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