Dr. Rich Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 RH, nice try to swerve away from my questions. They still remain unanswered. Tell my what law did Adam break? (1John3:4) If the law was given to Moses, then how does this verse apply? BTW-there is another post you can get on about dancing--if it requires dancing around the questions I asked. Now, to address what you said about 'us'--if you have a problem with what 'we' present and how we prove it by evidence, just ask--don't complain later. At this time I have no way of knowing and defending a statement you said without knowing what it is you specifically are talking about. Matter of FACT--almost every bible study we have been involved in for over 15 years has been recorded. We have said many times to others that if they find ONE thing wrong with our study--to come to us to point it out where we are wrong--and guess what? No one ever has! Would you like to be the first? Just remember the rules. You can only use the OT and the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. All other evidence is considered hearsay. Isn’t this simple enough to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So tell me, just how did sin begin in heaven? And what do you mean there was no 'visible law' till Moses? Anything outside "agape" is sin....Sin is self-seeking...it is the love of self.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 You know what???--Reading what you posted does not answer the question(s). Now if you really want the straight truth listen to the recording of last nights study at www.talkshoe.com and do a search for 'the bible on trial'. Then you can tell me if the answers found in the study were true or not and tell me why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 We have said many times to others that if they find ONE thing wrong with our study--to come to us to point it out where we are wrong--and guess what? No one ever has! That's because no one will listen to that stuff after seeing what you say on here. I'm the only one I know who has, and I found plenty wrong. Not just one thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted August 6, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo One spouse has to die in order to be released from the law of marriage. True... Quote: It is obvious the law cannot die. It is the sinner that must die. Bingo! Quote: This the believer does when he/she symbolically dies with Christ when he/she believes and is baptized. See Rom 6:1-11. If one CONTINUES TO LIVE IN SIN, that means he/she has not died after all, and therefore the law still has its a rightful claim. Bull! Legalism....Here's where your gospel goes belly up....Here's where you teach "another gospel"....You didn't symbolically die with Christ....If you did then you will symbolically get heaven.... teehe No, Rom 6:6/7:4 (and other verses) state that YOUR life died in the humanity of Christ. That's why babies will go to heaven....God has (past tense) reversed our situation in Adam because all men have been justified unto life in the doing and dying of Christ....Yes, some will reject this.... You rant and rave against sin, Robert, while at the same time you're ranting and raving against righteous living! Calling it bull & legalism! Doesn't make sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted August 6, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich So tell me, just how did sin begin in heaven? And what do you mean there was no 'visible law' till Moses? Anything outside "agape" is sin....Sin is self-seeking...it is the love of self.... "You shall love your neighbor as you love yourself." "Do unto others as you would others do to you." "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hey Gerry, My uncle Steve Holbrook is in Southern Tidings this month. It just came in the mail. They got his name wrong though. They called him by my cousin Larry's name. He won't like that at all. Looks like you're getting a new church. pg. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 RH--you complain but then you do not fix the problem by using the words of Jesus. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Why should I throw out most of my New Testament? I don't ask you to stop believing what you believe. Or ask that you not use what you believe in the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 You know I'm probably the only one on here who ever went and listened to one of you guys' studies. And that was no easy task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 To be released from the law simply means to be released from the condemnation of the law for by appropriating the merits of Christ to himself, the righteousness of Christ is brought into the life of the sinner to fill up the measure of the law's requirements. Appropriating the merits of Christ is the work of a life time. "Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93. "The merits of Jesus blot out transgressions and clothe us with the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of Heaven." Evangelism,186. Being clothed with the righteousness of Christ, the sinner is not only treated as though he had never sinned for the righteousness of Christ accomplishes everything. It imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins. Thus the believer is enabled to work the works of God for the righteousness of Christ is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See F.W.27,24; T.M.92. This is how faith is accounted righteousness and the pardoned sinner goes on from grace to grace, from victory to victory, and from light to a greater light. And the Father loves him as He loves Jesus. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks sky. But I wonder why Jesus never said anything about any of this? Did He want to keep it a secret until after He left this world? How come He never taught this to His disciples? And I wonder why we don't find any of this in Revelation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Oh but he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted August 6, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 6, 2009 There was a DIRECT command: don't eat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks sky. But I wonder why Jesus never said anything about any of this? ? John 16 "I have MANY MORE things to say unto you - but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of Truth comes HE will REVEAL all things unto you". hence - the NT text, Ellen White etc etc. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 To be released from the law simply means to be released from the condemnation of the law Amen. The lost comes to Christ and is released from the certain doom of the Lake of Fire -- the 2nd death, through the subtitutionary atoning sacrifice of Christ as predicted in the OT shadow types. What is more - the New Covenant promises create the "New Birth" in them and the Law of God written on the tablets of the human heart. For as Paul says to the saints in 1Cor 7:19 "but what matters is keeping the commandments of God" in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Thanks sky. But I wonder why Jesus never said anything about any of this? ? John 16 "I have MANY MORE things to say unto you - but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of Truth comes HE will REVEAL all things unto you". hence - the NT text, Ellen White etc etc. in Christ, Bob Good one Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 6, 2009 John 16 "I have MANY MORE things to say unto you - but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of Truth comes HE will REVEAL all things unto you". hence - the NT text, Ellen White etc etc. I think that's key and the very reason that Jesus sent people such as Paul and Ellen White. He could not possibly have given the Christian church all necessary knowledge while He was on earth or even to John the beloved. It makes good sense, biblically, that the gift of prophecy would not have ended for all time in 100 AD. The fact that God would send a true prophet is also a good reason that Satan would want to send a lot of false prophets around the time God was sending a genuine one. It seems to me that, on the basis of past experience, we should expect Satan to do that. Another important point: Since God made sure that the Old Testament is pure and all true, that would be a very strong argument that God would also make sure the New Testament is pure and all true. God does not change. He is consistent. Imagine if God sent both true and false messages to Adam and Eve about the temptations they would have to face at the tree and leave it up to them to sort out the truth from the lies in the warnings and instructions. What confusion! Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Well John, your post sure has confused me! My bibles have the word SHE in them and not HE. As for the rest of what you wrote--take a gander at Matthew 24:45 and tell me who this is? (if you can) Read it as it is and you will see that there is only ONE person here. (Sure, you can believe otherwise, but that does not change what was written there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 To be released from the law simply means to be released from the condemnation ..... That's absolute nonsense.....So I'm released from condemnation (disobey and die), but not "obey and live"???....Guess what, since we are not measuring up we come back under "disobey and die"....It's a vicious circle....No, we are released from both, "obey and live" & "disobey and die"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think that's key and the very reason that Jesus sent people such as Paul and Ellen White. I can't accept you placing EGW with Paul....That's bordering on cultism... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted August 7, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 To be released from the law simply means to be released from the condemnation ..... That's absolute nonsense.....So I'm released from condemnation (disobey and die), but not "obey and live"???....Guess what, since we are not measuring up we come back under "disobey and die"....It's a vicious circle....No, we are released from both, "obey and live" & "disobey and die"! If we are released from "obey & live" & from "disobey & die," what you are really saying then is: "OBEY & DIE", "DISOBEY & LIVE!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God1 that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice aand holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.” Deut.30:15-20. This is a CONDITIONAL promise and prophecy to Israel that if they did as the Lord commanded they would have an abundant life in the promised land, but if they disobeyed then they would perish. Israel chose the death option by rejecting the Chief Corner Stone, by not fulfilling what God asked them to do, and in 33 C.E. at the end of the 490 year prophecy of Dan.9:24 the Kingdom was taken away from them and would eventually be given to another Kingdom (Matt.21:43). This Kingdom will eventually do what God has asked it to do, which is take the gospel of the Kingdom to the world. It will at the end break into pieces all the kingdoms of the world (Dan.2:44-45). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well John, your post sure has confused me! My bibles have the word SHE in them and not HE. At what verse/s does your Bible refer to the Holy Spirit as "she"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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