"Released from the Law"

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

That's absolute nonsense.....So I'm released from condemnation (disobey and die)' date=' but not "obey and live"???....Guess what, since we are not measuring up we come back under "disobey and die"....It's a vicious circle....No, we are released from both, "obey and live" & "disobey and die"! [/quote']

If we are released from "obey & live" & from "disobey & die," what you are really saying then is: "OBEY & DIE", "DISOBEY & LIVE!!!"

Gerry....we aren't under law. Get that through that thick head of yours....To be under law is to be ruled - to be dominated by law. As Paul states in Romans 7:1, "the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives"....He goes on to say, "You died to the law in the body of Christ" [verse 4]. Hence, "now, by dying to what once bound us [the law], we have been released from the law." [verse 6]

[Robert]

“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God1 that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules,....

This is a CONDITIONAL promise and prophecy to Israel that if they did as the Lord commanded they would have an abundant life in the promised land, but if they disobeyed then they would perish.

This is Old Covenant....

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God1 that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules,....

This is a CONDITIONAL promise and prophecy to Israel that if they did as the Lord commanded they would have an abundant life in the promised land, but if they disobeyed then they would perish.

This is Old Covenant....

And the new covenant is? OBEY & DIE, DISOBEY & LIVE?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Gerry....we aren't under law. Get that through that thick head of yours....To be under law is to be ruled - to be dominated by law. As Paul states in Romans 7:1, "the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives"....He goes on to say, "You died to the law in the body of Christ" [verse 4]. Hence, "now, by dying to what once bound us [the law], we have been released from the law." [verse 6]

Let's see how much sense you are making. Man came under condemnation of the law, came under the jurisdiction of the law, became a prisoner of the law, became hitched to the law, because he broke it. Now, by claiming to be "in Christ" you are released from the condemnation/jurisdiction/hitched of/to the law while you continue to break it, i.e. live in sin!!!

If only you could see the utter folly of such a notion!

NO ONE is ever saved by keeping the law! But NO ONE will ever get to heaven by willfully breaking the law!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

I think that's key and the very reason that Jesus sent people such as Paul and Ellen White.

I can't accept you placing EGW with Paul....That's bordering on cultism...

They are both genuine prophets and as such they both were raised up by God. That's the association. I'm not saying her writings are of the same authority as Paul's, but they were both inspired by God to write God's messages for the church. The difference is that Ellen White's writings are not part of the canon. So she is a non-canonical prophet whose ministry and writings must be tested by the Bible.

[BobRyan]

Well John, your post sure has confused me! My bibles have the word SHE in them and not HE.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: John317

I think that's key and the very reason that Jesus sent people such as Paul and Ellen White.

I can't accept you placing EGW with Paul....That's bordering on cultism...

Good scare-tactic -- poor scripture.

The phrase you are looking for is "inspired writer".

Some inspired writers are in the canon of scripture and some are not -- obviously.

Noticing that fact does not need to bring up the thought-police slur of "cultism". It is simply a fact of history.

The only reason that the writings of either Paul or Ellen White has any value, any authority at all is that the "source" is the GOD.

If you had "some other" reason for assigning authority to their work -- you might want to re-think it.

in Christ,

Bob

[Richard Holbrook]

NO ONE is ever saved by keeping the law! But NO ONE will ever get to heaven by willfully breaking the law!

That's it in a nutshell Gerry.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

This is Old Covenant.... [/quote']

And the new covenant is? OBEY & DIE, DISOBEY & LIVE?

The NC is you died and obeyed in Christ....You are complete in Him....Now remain in Him by faith and He will remain in you. As you remain you will produce many fruits for without Him you can't do anything selfless....

[Robert]

Let's see how much sense you are making. Man came under condemnation of the law, came under the jurisdiction of the law, became a prisoner of the law, became hitched to the law, because he broke it.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

NO ONE is ever saved by keeping the law! But NO ONE will ever get to heaven by willfully breaking the law!

That's it in a nutshell Gerry.

A known practiced sin is a sin that you practice and refuse to acknowledge and repent of.....

Take the "love of self" for example....That's Gerry's favorite sin. What should he do with this sin seeing that he hasn't overcome it? I'll use EGW (because I agree here):

When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory surrounding the heavenly messenger that was sent unto him, he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and imperfection. Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, “There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.” Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love, and will seek, through Christ’s righteousness, for the purity of heart that is in harmony with the law of God and the character of Christ. Paul says that as “touching the righteousness which is in the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned --he was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt. [sC 29]

If you "hate" the principle of self-love you must be confessing this sin.....As your grow you'll become "less self-seeking"....

[Woody]

Cool. This is good stuff Robert. Thank you.

[Gerr]

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his

6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

7 For one who has died has been set free from sin

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Rom 6:1-8,11,12.

[olger]

Do we then make void the Law through faith? "hunh-uhh"

Paul of Tarsus

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

That's it in a nutshell Gerry.

A known practiced sin is a sin that you practice and refuse to acknowledge and repent of.....

Take the "love of self" for example....That's Gerry's favorite sin. What should he do with this sin seeing that he hasn't overcome it? I'll use EGW (because I agree here):

When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory surrounding the heavenly messenger that was sent unto him' date=' he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and imperfection. Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, “There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.” Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love, and will seek, through Christ’s righteousness, for the purity of heart that is in harmony with the law of God and the character of Christ. Paul says that as “touching the righteousness which is in the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned --he was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt. [sC 29']

If you "hate" the principle of self-love you must be confessing this sin.....As your grow you'll become "less self-seeking"....

If you notice your EGW quote, her use of "self-love" = "selfishness". She does not contradict God's word, so she can't possibly be contradicting what Jesus said, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

[Gerr]

Robert, who is your master? Whose slave are you?

[Robert]

Cool. This is good stuff Robert. Thank you.

TU

[Robert]

If you notice your EGW quote, her use of "self-love" = "selfishness". She does not contradict God's word, so she can't possibly be contradicting what Jesus said, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Gerry, you cherish...no, you love iniquity! You keep on defending it....Very, very dangerous.

Pr 28:9 He that turneth away his ears from hearing the law, his prayer shall be an abomination.

What does the law say? You shall love yourself & your neighbor? No, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. There's no self-love in agape! If self-love is mixed with agape then you have a u-turn agape better known as iniquity.

If you continue to turn your ear from what the law explicitly states even your prayer will become an abomination. Why? What's the function of the law? To point you to Christ because you see yourself as a sinner, but since you cherish...even promote and justify the love of self, well then, you do not need Christ because after all your self-love isn't sin.

And no, her use of "self-love" does not equal "selfishness". Let's look at her quote again:

The soul thus touched will

1] hate its selfishness,

2] abhor its self-love

Self-love is the reason we are selfish. Self love is the driver...it's that bent to self...it's iniquity, or as Paul states, "sin dwelling in me". He calls it "the law of sin". Why? It's very natural to love yourself. We are born loving self.

The law demands that you take that u-turn agape and bend it back towards your neighbor where it belongs. But, as you'll find out, it's impossible. Hence your need of Christ's righteousness in place of your filthy rags.

Again, where's the self-love in the following:

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439]

Note, instead of seeking your own wealth, you should be seeking another's. In agape there's no room for self.

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

You see in heaven you'll be building other folks' wealth and not your own, but they will be building your wealth. So no one is poor...no one is in poverty, but the method for gaining wealth is not centered in one's self-seeking.

This world is exactly opposite. You gained wealth by sinning...by loving self. You didn't gain it through agape.....You're a sinner...you need Christ's righteousness, but if you insist that self-love isn't sin you are placing yourself squarely on Lucifer's side. You are refusing to allow the spirit of the law to point out iniquity in your life. That spirit will close heaven's door if persistently condoned.

Rob

[Robert]

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439]

Again, this is very important that I hammer this point, look at EGW's accurate statement....Note the "not"!

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439]

Not your wealth, but another's! Very, very plain!!!!

Again (and let the spirit of the law point it out) there's no self-love in God's agape, period!!!

Now, go back to EGW's statement:

We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive , the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28]

Everything, except what Christ's has done through you, is based in iniquity. You went to school, why? Not for others only, but you had self in mind.

Becoming a doctor and helping folks is commendable, but the fact is you especially did this to build your wealth. That's self-seeking. Your motive was selfish because you by nature loved yourself. Hence, even though becoming a doctor helped folks (a good deed), that deed has been defiled (polluted) because of your self-love.

The same is true of every person out there (myself included)....If we reject this truth, we reject the spirit of the law's view of us and if we reject what the law says concerning us we have become self-righteous and we therefore don't need the robes of Christ righteousness. For the person that's turned away his/her ear to this truth even his/her prayer will become an abomination.

[BobRyan]

Paul says in Rom 7:6 that "we are released from the law." What did he mean/what does it mean to be released from the law?

Does it mean, as some think, that believers are released from obedience to it?

Romans 7 addresses the hope of the lost person when comparing the law to the promise of the Gospel. Here is a perspective that Robert loves to continually circle back to - so this thread should have been a place for him to really shine.

Paul is specifically talking about the condemnation of the Law and the binding authority that it's "wages of sin is death" (that would be the 2nd death) have upon the lost person. "Obey and Live" is the law for the lost and since all are sinners all would be doomed to the second death. And the hope in the Gospel of being released from those claims at the moment you are born-again.

I am sure Robert would already have mentioned this view by now - but I don't ming calling emphasis back to it - again.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Robert, who is your master? Whose slave are you?

Good point from Romans 6.

The answer depends on whether you are looking at the law from the context of a lost person or a saved person.

The lost person must always respond that they are a slave to sin.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Robert, who is your master? Whose slave are you?

Good point from Romans 6. Bob

Romans 6 isn't talking about law perfection....It's talking a about attitude. Just as we were justified unto life by our death "in Christ" (see Romans 6:6) we should consider/reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. That simply means as believers we are to "obey the gospel". This is different than obeying the law. Law obedience is doing something...obeying the gospel is obeying a truth. It is summed up in the following:

"I have been [past tense] crucified with Christ [compare to Romans 6:6/7:4] and I no longer live [i am to consider or reckon myself dead just like I literally died in Christ], but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

[BobRyan]

Gerry's quote goes much farther than "attitude" it goes to actual "walk" and it goes to the level of what happens "IN your mortal body" in terms of "sin".

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his

6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that [color:#FF0000]we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

7 For one who has died has been set free from sin

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Rom 6:1-8,11,12.

[wayfinder]

In the garden paradise of God, there were two trees, one the Tree of Life and the other the Tree of Death. Adam had been instructed by God, and well understood, that from any tree in the garden he may freely eat, but the Tree of Learning the Knowledge of Good and Evil he must never eat and if he were to eat from it he would be executed by sundown. Adam’s righteousness would depend upon whether or not he ate from the tree of learning the knowledge of good and evil. He would learn righteousness by obeying God and not eating from the tree and learn unrighteousness by disobeying God and eating from it. The tree of “life” would allow him to live forever, but eating of the tree of “learning the knowledge of good and evil” he would be dead forever. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were denied access to eternal life and eventually died as all flesh and blood beings do.

When God called His kingdom out of Egypt He gave them the “tree of life”, His covenant, the Ten Commandments. God said obey and live, disobey and die.

Approximately fourteen hundred years later this same serpent said to God’s people “you don’t need to obey God He loves you and died for you so obedience is optional, He does wants you to be loving and kind, but obedience is deeds/works, Jesus did it for you, because you are unable do it yourself. God knows that He gave you an impossible command and therefore He sent His Son to obey for you, so you now have life without any required obedience. And the words of the serpent continue to ring in our ears, if you disobey God He is not going to kill you, He just wants you to die with His Son and you will be free from the obedience requirement".

Adam and Eve disobeyed God and He cast them out of the garden. Moses and all the men of fighting age who left Egypt, with the exception of two (Caleb and Joshua) were not allowed to enter the promised land, because of disobedience. The Israelites disobeyed God and He cast them out of the Promised Land. During their second opportunity to become the Kingdom of God they ran out of time and never experienced ownership of the land of promise. Today the Seventh-day Adventists are the kingdom of heaven and those who obey (five wise bridesmaids) enter the marriage feast, those who disobey (five foolish) are not allowed to enter, ever. To eat from the Tree of Life is to obey the commandments of God, obey and live forever, disobey and be dead forever (second death).

[Ron Amnsn]

Paul says in Rom 7:6 that "we are released from the law." What did he mean/what does it mean to be released from the law?

Does it mean, as some think, that believers are released from obedience to it?

Paul is the author of this verse, so why don't we look at how Paul himself lived it out? Did Paul obey the law, or did Paul disobey the law?

Is there any record in the New Testament of Paul disobeying Old Testament law after accepting Jesus as the Messiah?

Paul continued to obey the law himself throughout his ministry. Paul also instructed both Jews and Gentiles to follow his own example and the example of Jesus. So whatever Paul was trying to say, it is evident that being "released from the law" does not result in disobedience to God's law.