Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 It may appear that way to you, but you're not even close. You're taking wild guesses at it evidently. Why don't you study the Bible the way the Bible says to, instead of making up your own set of rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 ok Richard, then please teach me! It is clear that you can't be taught anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I learn things everyday, but I don't want to be taught error. I've tried teaching you things, you just eat the homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Look, I was getting back to the main question and then you messed it up again. Can't you just answer the questions? If you were on the stand you would have to answer the questions--you could not beat around the bush. Please try this time to just answer my questions. If you see error in the questions, point it out and then correct it. If you can't kindly do that then butt out! Do you understand what I wrote? Even though I may not agree with everything Tom wrote in another thread, he was right on when he came down on you hard for writing things without thinking about them first. I was dead serious about the questions I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I know you were serious, but we've been down that road too many times already. There's nothing I can do to change your mind about it. If I thought I could I would try. As far as Tom goes, he always tries to do that. It rolls off me like water off a ducks back. I didn't even really think he came down on me that hard. John had to point out to him that what I said was nothing but a reasonable question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeneu Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Michael, Paul does say that there will be righteous people, that is not and has never been the issue. The issue is HOW they become righteous. He says through grace by faith. Jesus Christ says we become righteous by becoming sanctified in the truth by using His words. Paul does not teach this. Only one of these theologies can be correct. Most Christians who are like you believe the salvation by grace model. I believe the model that Jesus taught. My concern is that if only one of these modes of salvation is true then whoever believes the wrong one will be lost for eternity. I don't want that to happen and I know that is true for you as well. So where does that leave us in this situation? For me the only option I have is to go with the teaching of Jesus Christ, and that is only because I have declared myself a bondservant of His, and will be so until such a time as He see fit to change my status to a member of His family. This is a self-limiting status that does not allow me the luxury of believing the words and teachings of anyone other than Jesus Christ the Son of God. If you have not made this same declaration then you are not bound by these same restrictions and you can believe anyone or anything you desire. That does not mean that your belief will be right or wrong. It just means that the basis for your belief can be something other than only the words of Jesus Christ as given by His eyewitnesses. We will both be held accountable for our decision about the source by which we identify truth. I personally feel safer sticking with the source for all truth rather than risking my eternal future on someone who is not God, whether or not he or she has had direct contact with God through visions or dreams. Really, that is a bogus argument when we consider that I quoted from Paul that righteousness is not only in hearing the law, but obeying it. “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger…. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:5-8, 13 NIV It is clear that you have major problems with prejudice against Paul that inhibits your grasp of his work. And your failure to grasp the means of salvation also inhibits your grasp of Christ’s doctrine also. “And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.” Matt. 9:2 Here Christ verifies that the foundation of salvation or the forgiveness of sins is faith before works; it was faith that made one sound, not works. As Richard, John and Oldsailor have tried to share with you, works follows faith, not the other way around and that is what Paul and even John confirm. “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1John 5:4 Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Can I just interject here MM? God is waiting for us to get to the point where we admit that we cannot keep His Commandments. Only then will He do the work in us that will remove sin from our lives... Mark Can I suggest a little tweak. Yah is waiting for us to admit that we can't keep His Commandments by ourselves, we need His help. When we admit that He shall meet our needs and He's much more powerful than us. Michael I think I will start a new thread on this subject. I will call it: "Needing Gods help - the error often hidden..." Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. It doesn't say who acknowledge that they can't keep the commandments of God! It says they keepthe commandments of God! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeneu Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Revelation 12:17And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. It doesn't say who acknowledge that they can't keep the commandments of God! It says they keepthe commandments of God! How we keep them is by submission to the Spirit. We allow the Spirit to write them in our minds and heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 That is right and if they are written in our mind and on our heart we demonstrate this fact by our actions. Our actions will be in perfect harmony with the commandments of God and demonstrate that it is not impossible to keep His commandments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeneu Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 That is right and if they are written in our mind and on our heart we demonstrate this fact by our actions. Our actions will be in perfect harmony with the commandments of God and demonstrate that it is not impossible to keep His commandments. And of course submission is prefaced by faith, for without faith it is impossible to please Yahweh. Good works must follow true faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes, and faith is belief in and practice of the teaching and leading of the Spirit of Truth, which are the good works that follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeneu Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes, and faith is belief in and practice of the teaching and leading of the Spirit of Truth, which are the good works that follow. Apply put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.