jasd Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Sorry, I suppose I may have missed the most salient aspects of his "answer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 This help? http://adventaudio.org/2009/07/06/the-everlasting-covenant/ [/quote'] Got it bookmarked. Great! Thanks! http://www.scribd.com/doc/13784254/EJ-WaggonerThe-Everlasting-Covenant http://www.remnant-prophecy.com/adv-pioneer-lib/EJWAGGON/THEEVERLASTINGCOVENANT.PDF Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: jasd >>The 4th century codex Vaticanus has a space between letters in only one place in the gospel of Luke. Where do you suppose that single space occurs? Between the Greek word for "today" and the word "with."<< You may want to refer to your notes, as the space in Luke (Codex Vaticanus) occurs between Luke 22:30 and 22:31, which occurs after a rare punctuation. Luke 23:43 does, however, contain in the Vaticanus – an ‘accidental spot’ or ‘blemish’ after “today”/semeron – however, without the space... What is this post doing here? That is, what does this have to do with the 1888 message? i have attempted to move the subject here http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbth...html#Post277957 but, i dont know if there will be co-operation. if not that would be a shame. sop says we should know this backwards and forwards, upside down and every which way if we want to avoid being caught in the overwhelming delusions to come. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Doesn't Standish state that both Jones and Waggoner apostatized? "The General Conference Confronts Apostasy" -- Russell R. Standish Disabuse me. If I read Standish and others correctly... we might wanna get back tah Holy Writ as our primary exegetical tool, yes? If'n y'alls got no Bibles, write me that I might see to it that you are availed of one... apostasy is not retroactive, my brother. :) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc What is this post doing here? That is, what does this have to do with the 1888 message? [/quote']i have attempted to move the subject here http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbth...html#Post277957 but, i dont know if there will be co-operation. if not that would be a shame. sop says we should know this backwards and forwards, upside down and every which way if we want to avoid being caught in the overwhelming delusions to come. Good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 but still, how would we know in whose image we are being "sanctified"? 2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. The glory of God is his character, and it is manifested to us in Christ. Therefore it is by beholding Christ, by contemplating his character, by learning his lessons, by obeying his words, that we become changed into his likeness. As we are enlightened by his Spirit, we see no virtue or merit in ourselves. We realize there is naught in us but deformity. But the glory of the Redeemer, manifested in his atoning sacrifice, in his justifying righteousness, in his fullness of grace, whereby we not only obtain pardon but receive sanctification, fills the whole soul with love and adoration, and in contemplating the goodness, mercy, and love of God, we become transformed in character. Jesus said, "The glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." On him who receives Christ, the glory of the Lord has risen, the Sun of Righteousness has shined, and, rising from his low and worldly state, the believer reflects the light of Christ's glory. As he continually looks to Jesus and contemplates his beauty, he is more and more transformed into the child of light. {SSW, July 1, 1894 par. 5} I would suggest both positions are true... It is the Holy Spirit who enables us and draws us to behold Christ. He does not speak of Himself. :-) Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 >>What is this post doing here? That is, what does this have to do with the 1888 message?<< Threatened? c'mon, back-up until you find the reason... If we can walk and chew gum at the same time - this post goes to the issue of faith and love - on the parts of the Thief and Jesus Christ. Seeing as you've, apparently, not followed the thread - I raised the point that St Paul informs us that agape love supercedes even faith - mebbe even the sort of faith bruited by Jones and Waggoner? I further, suggested that Buddhism's very foundation lies with the compassion one might define as agape love... the compassion springing from bowels of mercy, as it were. What's that got to do with faith? It looked like the post was discussing where a comma should be. I would say I was more "confused" than "threatened," as I didn't see what this comma had to do with the 1888 message. At any rate, I'm glad a topic was set up for discussing the comma, and have fun! Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) but still, how would we know in whose image we are being "sanctified"? 2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. The glory of God is his character, and it is manifested to us in Christ. Therefore it is by beholding Christ, by contemplating his character, by learning his lessons, by obeying his words, that we become changed into his likeness. As we are enlightened by his Spirit, we see no virtue or merit in ourselves. We realize there is naught in us but deformity. But the glory of the Redeemer, manifested in his atoning sacrifice, in his justifying righteousness, in his fullness of grace, whereby we not only obtain pardon but receive sanctification, fills the whole soul with love and adoration, and in contemplating the goodness, mercy, and love of God, we become transformed in character. Jesus said, "The glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." On him who receives Christ, the glory of the Lord has risen, the Sun of Righteousness has shined, and, rising from his low and worldly state, the believer reflects the light of Christ's glory. As he continually looks to Jesus and contemplates his beauty, he is more and more transformed into the child of light. {SSW, July 1, 1894 par. 5} I would suggest both positions are true... It is the Holy Spirit who enables us and draws us to behold Christ. He does not speak of Himself. i dont know where you see the "either/or". or maybe you misunderstood the intent, the message she is giving? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Doesn't Standish state that both Jones and Waggoner apostatized? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Good quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Don’t intend more than to add a finial to my share of posts... >>It is quite possible that Elder Jones or Waggoner may be overthrown by the temptations of the enemy; but if they should be, this would not prove that they had had no message from God, or that the work that they had done was all a mistake. But should this happen, how many would take this position, and enter into a fatal delusion because they are not under the control of the Spirit of God. They walk in the sparks of their own kindling, and cannot distinguish between the fire they have kindled and the light which God has given, and they walk in blindness as did the Jews. (1888 Mat. p. 1044) [ed.jasd] A prophecy indeed! or confutatively adorning the bustle? Having noted that, I confess to a familiarity with the quote; however, reject its trenchancy. Puts one to mind of much of the Testimonies, yes? Ummm... I admit to being just a bit confounded with the sectual suffusion confabulating much of the posts proffered herein. Given the schism/implosion attending the 1888 affair – might the skeptic be justified in viewing the posted quote – as an artifice of the politic? (please take the above as it is given; that is, with tongue-in-cheek) addendum: would any of the NT Epistles have been canonized should its author(s) have apostatized? Doubtful, yes? No? You’s either is or you’s ain’t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Jones and Waggoner never were canonized, but I still read their writings and get mucho good out of it. Confabulito I say, or splendanimous. Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2009 Yes, I agree. Fortunately many of their writings are online and available in book form and can be ordered at the ABC. Their best writings are from the years 1880 to about 1900. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 John, have you read Lessons From The Reformation by A.T. Jones published in 1912? This is the best book I have ever read on the topics he discusses in that book and I doubt i will read a better one soon. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 >>Jones and Waggoner never were canonized,<< I stand disabused - given the source of much that filled this thread - I was under the impression that the imprimatur of that certain one, was its equivalent. Thank goodness, that the canonization of Holy Writ was based upon higher standards - having a higher imprimatur, as it were. >>...but I still read their writings and get mucho good out of it.<< Well, bless your pea-pickin' little heart - that is difficult to fault. I also receive much from extraBiblical sources. So, would you have received as much good - doing a study upon the merits of agape love instead? Anyway, I find that where there are questionable sources - there remains Writ. Isn't that the major grief (the raison d'etre, as it were) the .Org holds against other .orgs? that is, they are questionable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2009 No, I've never read The Lessons From the Reformation. Sounds like something I ought to get and read, though. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 No, I've never read The Lessons From the Reformation. Sounds like something I ought to get and read, though. For sure John, it is a master piece. We will not find another book like this one anywhere. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Sound like a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 (the raison d'etre, as it were) If you say so, I don't speak french. I did drink a cup of french roast coffee once, back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 JOHN317----"Truly I say unto you today you shall be with Me in Paradise." Also, please notice the thief's plea: "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom..." Question: When does Jesus come into His kingdom? Did Jesus come into His kingdom that same day when He died? Clearly not. Compare Daniel 2: 44; 7: 14. Quote: JASD--Was Jesus Christ constrained in the manner of His granting salvation to the Thief? Here's what the Bible says about the timing of Jesus coming into His kingdom. It shows that Jesus did not come into His kingdom on the day He died. He comes into His kingdom at the time of the Second Coming, which happens also to be the time of the resurrection of the dead. 1 Thess. 4: 16. That is when the thief will be with Jesus in His kingdom and not before. It's also the time when the Apostle Paul said that He would receive the crown of life. Paul refers to it as "that day." Compare 2 Tim. 1: 10-12, 18; 4: 1, 8; Rev. 3: 11. ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:31 According to Jesus' promise to His beloved disciples in John 14: 3, His second coming is also the time when He will take them to be where He is, to the place He's preparing for them. Therefore we can be sure neither they nor the thief are with Jesus today, before His return. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 No, I've never read The Lessons From the Reformation. Sounds like something I ought to get and read, though. For sure John, it is a master piece. We will not find another book like this one anywhere. Could you tell one or two of the most important things you found in Lessons? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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