Guest Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 1.Doug 2.Nic 3........ I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Trying to do what the "right" way?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Originally Posted By: BobRyan The references below give a good summary of the historic SDA position on this topic -- no matter who had a Ph.D back when they were making those statements. It is NOT the position of the Pioneers which is being questioned here. So you are saying that the statements they provide (for example at this link) http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post326997 - are accepted by all sides in this debate? That did not appear to be the case in my review of the thread. What am I missing? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I don't think you're missing anything Bob. You're very observant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 26, 2010 Members Share Posted January 26, 2010 Just because there are differences in opinions does not mean that THAT is the relevant issue of a debate. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 A doctoral degree from AJU in your time frame would have been accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council as recognized by the U.S. Department of Education, but not recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. In my opinion, to be fully accredited means to be accepted by every accreditation council--both regional and national--as fully legitimate. ntmom I suggest that you file a complaint against the Andrew Jackson University who granted me and others the degree and tell them that they are engaged in falsely advertising themselves as an accredited institution. And by the way, do you have a list of factual errors you discovered in my dissertation? Why are you purposely ignoring the topic under discussion? Do you have any evidence that my thesis has no foundation in fact. Do you believe that the Adventist today is not pro-choice as I have claimed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 The accrediting committees have already seen to the effect that AJU no longer award doctoral degrees. They are no longer advertising themselves as an accredited doctoral program. I do not have a list of factual errors in your dissertation. As I have stated previously, I did not read your submission for dissertation and have no desire to read it. As I have stated previously, your submission may have merit to it. As I have stated previously, I do not agree with your submission, nor do I disagree with it. I do not know what the majority of Adventists today believe regarding the choices concerning the unborn. I only know what my immediate Adventist family believes regarding the issue. As individuals, and as a family unit, we do not fully subscribe to all of the beliefs, values and mores of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Overaged, Thank you for your observations. You have provided evidence that you have been examining the content of my dissertation. I will try to respond to you comments: Quote: I don't see how you can deny using non-Adventist materials, to decipher and explain Adventist doctrine or practice. Please, tell me how many non-Adventist sources have you identified. Be precise and provide the hard evidence. I doubt that they will exceed the number of the fingers you have in your hands. Quote: 60-70% of the links don't work in your references, many of them are to your own forum, and some are even from former adventist web sites, and a large number are simply unreliable as evidence or reference. Tell me: Why do you think that citing the opinions of former Adventists is out of place? Dr. Edward Allread graduated from LLU, and he went into the abortion business and became a millionaire. He left the church and recently sold his business to Dr. Feldkamp, and Adventist. Why is this irrelevant to the issue of abortion. How about Teresa and Arthur D. Beem who founded “Adventist for Life in Loma Linda” and whose work was advertised in our “Ministry” magazine before the adoption of the Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion”? Teresa was a member of the committee which studied the issue of abortion before the guidelines were approved. Why is it irrelevant to include her story? She left the church over the adoption of those guidelines, and her story appeared in our Ministry magazine. What is wrong with that? Regarding the non-working links, Pam did alert me about this problem. Those represent the references collected from our Ministry magazine. You state that they represent between 60 and 70 percent of the links. You might be correct, and I am glad that it is you who is saying this, because it verifies what I have been saying: that a major portion of the material was collected from our official Ministry magazine. Evidently, for some unknown reason, Ministry magazine moved their archives to a new website. Are you going to blame me for this? Here is the link to where they have their archive material now: Ministry Magazine | Archives http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive Don’t you think that they might have moved said archive material in order to make my work harder? Perhaps it is purely coincidental, but I do have the right to wonder. I did suspect that this could happen, this is the reason I provided both a link to the online source and the standard reference to the published magazine article. If you and others give me some time to take a breath of fresh air, I might find the time to both edit my dissertation and update the links in line with the new Internet location of the Ministry archives; a task which would require many hours of tedious work. I do not have a secretary and I do not have the funds to hire one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Originally Posted By: BobRyan The references below give a good summary of the historic SDA position on this topic -- no matter who had a Ph.D back when they were making those statements. It is NOT the position of the Pioneers which is being questioned here. What is being questioned then? Is it my claim that the Adventist Church has deviated from the unambiguous committment to the pro-life attitude of the Adventist pioneers and the adoption of the pro-choice position on abortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 There are people in the Church trying to do something about this the right way. Name 3 Overaged claims that there are people in the church who are trying to do this the right way. He may be right, but I have seen no hard evidence to support his claim. Following the adoption of the Guidelines on Abortion by the church, I made many attempts at getting my defense of the pro-life position published in the Adventist media without success--this while the Adventist publications were publishing the articles in defense of abortion. On many occasions I did send pro-life donations both to my local church and to the General Conference, and got my checks returned with the following note: The church does not have a pro-life program. How credible is then the claim that some in our church are doing this the right way? George Lawson and Teresa Beem started the "Adventist for Life" program in Loma Linda. The opposition and apathy towards their work was so strong that both of them left the church over the issue of abortion and started their independent ministry programs. Recently I wrote to the General Conference and was told that I was trying to do the pro-life work the wrong way. I asked them to tell me how to do it the right way. I am still waiting for the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Overaged, Thank you for your observations. You have provided evidence that you have been examining the content of my dissertation. I will try to respond to you comments: Quote: I don't see how you can deny using non-Adventist materials, to decipher and explain Adventist doctrine or practice. Please, tell me how many non-Adventist sources have you identified. Be precise and provide the hard evidence. I doubt that they will exceed the number of the fingers you have in your hands. Quote: 60-70% of the links don't work in your references, many of them are to your own forum, and some are even from former adventist web sites, and a large number are simply unreliable as evidence or reference. Tell me: Why do you think that citing the opinions of former Adventists is out of place? Dr. Edward Allread graduated from LLU, and he went into the abortion business and became a millionaire. He left the church and recently sold his business to Dr. Feldkamp, and Adventist. Why is this irrelevant to the issue of abortion. How about Teresa and Arthur D. Beem who founded “Adventist for Life in Loma Linda” and whose work was advertised in our “Ministry” magazine before the adoption of the Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion”? Teresa was a member of the committee which studied the issue of abortion before the guidelines were approved. Why is it irrelevant to include her story? She left the church over the adoption of those guidelines, and her story appeared in our Ministry magazine. What is wrong with that? Regarding the non-working links, Pam did alert me about this problem. Those represent the references collected from our Ministry magazine. You state that they represent between 60 and 70 percent of the links. You might be correct, and I am glad that it is you who is saying this, because it verifies what I have been saying: that a major portion of the material was collected from our official Ministry magazine. Evidently, for some unknown reason, Ministry magazine moved their archives to a new website. Are you going to blame me for this? Here is the link to where they have their archive material now: Ministry Magazine | Archives http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive Don’t you think that they might have moved said archive material in order to make my work harder? Perhaps it is purely coincidental, but I do have the right to wonder. I did suspect that this could happen, this is the reason I provided both a link to the online source and the standard reference to the published magazine article. If you and others give me some time to take a breath of fresh air, I might find the time to both edit my dissertation and update the links in line with the new Internet location of the Ministry archives; a task which would require many hours of tedious work. I do not have a secretary and I do not have the funds to hire one. Uh,speaking of taking a breath... even a cow should understand that this question of evidential validity is a moooot point. Online links,easy accessibility,Ministry's sinister conspiracy to undermine Nic's work(getting a little gunshy,are we,Nic?),questionable evidence? Please! Any information not available online that relates to anything ever written by SDA's or written about SDA's is available at your local Heritage Room. This may,however,involve having to exercise portions of the human anatomy other than the hand. If that proves to be too painful,or logistically impractical,a quick search of this thread should uncover ample sources for investigation (Bob Ryan's latest posts come quickly to mind). So can we put to rest the sources arguments and moooove on? Some of us sheep think that this focus is a baaaaad idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (AP) -- The children with no names lay mute in a corner of the General Hospital grounds Tuesday, three among thousands of boys and girls set adrift in the wake of Haiti's earthquake. Hundreds of thousands of other hungry and thirsty children are scattered among Port-au-Prince's squatter camps of survivors, without protection against disease or child predators - often with nobody to care for them. "There's an estimated 1 million unaccompanied or orphaned children or children who lost one parent," said Kate Conradt, a spokeswoman for the aid group Save the Children. "They are extremely vulnerable." Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 even a cow should understand that this question of evidential validity is a moooot point. Read "Evidential validity is never a moot point in connection with scholastics." by C.A. Hereford. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Aubrey, Quote: The accrediting committees have already seen to the effect that AJU no longer award doctoral degrees. They are no longer advertising themselves as an accredited doctoral program. Do you know why AJU dropped the doctoral program from their offerings? I don’t! Perhaps they dropped it because it became unprofitable to continue doing so. I did complete the program before they discontinued the offering, and I was granted the degree. This is more important for me than whether they are offering the program today for other students. Quote: I do not have a list of factual errors in your dissertation. As I have stated previously, I did not read your submission for dissertation and have no desire to read it. This is an important admission. I do not expect everybody to read what I have written. I did it for those who have an interest in learning how Adventists have moved away from the foundation laid by our early Adventist pioneers. Quote: As individuals, and as a family unit, we do not fully subscribe to all of the beliefs, values and mores of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is another meaningful admission. This is a big help in interpreting what you have stated in the past and what you may write in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Nic, what was your Masters degree in? Just curious... Ministry Magazine | Archiveshttp://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive I still couldn't retrieve some of the articles from the archives using this new website. Maybe they are working out some glitches in the site. I *could* view some, though. That was encouraging. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Nic, what was your Masters degree in? Just curious... Originally Posted By: Nic Ministry Magazine | Archiveshttp://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive I still couldn't retrieve some of the articles from the archives using this new website. Maybe they are working out some glitches in the site. I *could* view some, though. That was encouraging. My Master's degree was in Education from La Sierra College. I also did complete all the requirements for a Ph.D. degree in Educational Psychology, minus three subjects and the dissertation, at the University of California at Riverside. I droped out of the program for lack of funds. My interest in a Ph.D. program reignited when I realized that my church was siding with the pro-choice crowd. Of course, I had to mortgage my home to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thanks...I know the issues about money. Ed Psych would have been an interesting program. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The willful killing of a human being at any stage of it's existence,is murder,and yet one of the most prevalent sins of this generation, is the murder of unborn babies.Those who think that this is a small sin,read Ps.139:16. They'll see that even the unborn child is written in God's book. And they can be assured that God won't pass unnoticed the murder of those children. Does believing this make me a right wing fundamentalist? Am I wrong for believing it or for saying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 2, 2010 Members Share Posted February 2, 2010 I don't know. Do you feel like a right wing fundamentalist? If you do, then you probably are. If you don't, then you probably are not. But this is off topic. Or maybe it is on topic. Does it matter to you? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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