BobRyan Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Those who are supportive of abortion are against the death penalty?Those support capital punishment are against abortion? Interesting. In Ex 20 God condemns murder. In Genesis 9 - God requires the death penalty for murderers. In fact the same God that condemns murder in Ex 20 -- keeps insisting that the penalty "is death" for murdering both in Exodus and in Leviticus. It is almost as if - the civil penalty of death for a crime -- is not viewed by God as "murder" and violation of His command in Ex 20. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 The guilty was to be taken to the high priest, our high priest is Jesus. The wages of sin is death. All sin. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 In Matt 5 and 6 Christ tells His followers (pre-cross) to turn the other cheek. If someone robs you of your shirt give him also your coat. Such are good moral values for an individual - but they are unjust civil laws. Imagine going to court and having the judge say that because you did not give the theif your coat when he stoled your shirt -- you must pay a fine or serve time in jail. 1Cor 10 says that the Hebrews were going to Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins when they were in the wilderness. But the civil laws still existed. Heb 4:2 says that "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" -- their forgiveness of sins - was the same as ours today. In fact in Dan 9 -- Daniel prays for forgiveness - directly to God - without priest or sacrifice. As Paul points out in Heb 10:1-5 -- the animal blood never forgave a single sin. Elijah, Enoch and Moses all went to heaven -- fully forgiven of sin - before the Cross. God's command that crime is to be punished in Genesis 9 is not a statement about Christ not being able to forgive sin. In Romans 13 Paul himself argues that the sword (the death penalty) that is placed in the hands of government - is of God -- even in the NT. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I didn't choose to have any words with you whatsoever. I pretty much leave you alone. You have no ability to influence my beliefs. As for you personally it is the same as it always has been.As for my religious belief someone of your ilk doesn't influence one way or another. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Quote: Those who are supportive of abortion are against the death penalty? They don't consider the fetus to be alive so terminating it isn't consider killing. Quote: Those support capital punishment are against abortion? They make the distinction between innocent and guilty life. Innocent life deserves to live. Those guilty of taking another's life should pay with their own. Quote: Those who are more evolutionary want to take care of the earth like it was owned by a creator? They worship the earth. The earth has become their god. Quote: Those who believe in creation, are not that big being "Green" This is a problem for many evangelicals but not all. Many Chrisitan creationists are in fact environmentalists. That is especially true for Seventh0day Adventists. Hope Channel and LLBN has had a few different shows advocating environmentalism. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Quote: They don't consider the fetus to be alive so terminating it isn't consider killing. Those support capital punishment are against abortion? It is getting a little tough to claim a "fetus" is not alive or a child. In MN we have had murder convictions handed down because the mother wanted the chid. One was sentenced for second degree murder of a 5 month old "fetus" Had this same mother been on her way to an abortion clinic it would not have been classified a baby or worthy of second degree murder charges. If the laws were changed perhaps the numbers of those that support the death penalty would be fewer. A young woman from MN was abducted,beaten,stabbed,raped and thrown in a ditch like a sack of garbage. Her killer was a man that had spent over 20 years in prison,he was a level 3 sex offender. He told authorities if they released him he would do same thing again. He did and took one life and completely shattered this family. If people like this cannot be confined for life "his death penalty" is far more just than what he gave this young woman. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Good point. In fact -- in every state - if you kill the same fetus outside the womb as was inside -- it is called murder. It seems that "the state gets the point" even if some Christians are slow on the draw. The Christian "should know" that the value of human life is the SAME -- no matter what the "location" is. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The problem, BobRyan, with your logic is that if the fetus WAS outside the womb, it would die...It dies from the lack of those factors that the womb supports....food, warmth, 0XYGEN, removal of waste, a sterile enviroment... It is of interest that those convictions of child murders rested upon the woman desiring the child....her choice.... Thus, society must support the individual choice if society is intended to grow... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Actually, the life of a newborn child also depends upon someone wanting it. If a child is simply born and set aside, it will surely die. Scientifically, there is no debate about when life begins. It is only politically where we find a debate. My point is that those that approve of abortion make themselves believe that the fetus is not a human life. Of course their logic is faulty and some may just be lying to themselves but nonetheless, they do not believe the fetus is human life. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2009 I don't think the point Stan was making was so much about abortion, as about the fact that those who are horrified by the idea of killing a foetus are delighted by the idea of executing an adult human being. 'Pro life?' Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I don't think the point Stan was making was so much about abortion, as about the fact that those who are horrified by the idea of killing a foetus are delighted by the idea of executing an adult human being. 'Pro life?' Have you dealt with anyone here who is "delighted" by the idea of executing someone. This is as false as if I said "Stan,Neil" etc.were delighted by the idea of aborting a baby. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Good point Bonnie, also I would like to know how killing off the unborn causes society to grow, as put forth by Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2009 I don't think Stan was talking about only those here. And you only need to look around to see people who are delighted with the idea of capital punishment. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I don't think Stan was talking about only those here. And you only need to look around to see people who are delighted with the idea of capital punishment. I can't think of one Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2009 http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html "My state of New York is a state that practiced capital punishment since its colonial days, then abolished it in 1965. But now, as of September 1, 1995, the death penalty is back in the books in accordance to Governor Pataki's campaign promise. As a staunch supporter of the death penalty, I consider this to be a good thing for my state and its citizens." Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html "My state of New York is a state that practiced capital punishment since its colonial days, then abolished it in 1965. But now, as of September 1, 1995, the death penalty is back in the books in accordance to Governor Pataki's campaign promise. As a staunch supporter of the death penalty, I consider this to be a good thing for my state and its citizens." That says nothing about being "delighted". Supporting doesn't say delighted. A great many people support it but are not "delighted" Maybe I should accept the word delighted tho. It seems tom e that all on this forum and the US that support abortion are "delighted". Especially that part of the law that says a DR does not have to give medical care to an infant born alive. Dumb little babies don't get it,they are not to live and they really are "nothing. Yes,I can see where there is delight by abortion supporters that they can destroy a child that is inconvenient Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 "...can't think of one"? I hear it every day...."When I think of those scumbags on death row, I can't think of a better person that deserves to die"... "Most of those lowlifes are getting off easy compared to the victims that they killed."... I hear that every time a 'Jeffery Dalhmer" type is brought to justice...In fact, we had that talk here on the board, and I was astounded at the conversation, from SDAs, mind you, here on this board what were calling thoses on death row some very derogatory names.... It seems to me, that those who defend the right to put those on death row to death also defend the right to life and are against abortion......And there is a dicotomy that just doesn't seem right... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Quote: I was astounded at the conversation, from SDAs, mind you, here on this board what were calling thoses on death row some very derogatory names.... What? Did someone call them a 'crazy man' ... OR would that be a 'crazy woman'? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Good point Bonnie, also I would like to know how killing off the unborn causes society to grow, as put forth by Neil. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 23, 2009 God forgives the confessed and repentant sinner a lot more easily than some around here... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Quote: I would like to point out Richard, that if you don't understand what I have put up, you can always ask questions. However, I reserve the right to demand that you NEVER misquote me. You can demand all you want ... but that is just what happens here on the Forum. Some times ... we just have to correct our sensibilities. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 More innuendo, inference and insin...u..ations... As to God's forgiveness, it is a wonderful thing, and there IS a Jesus you can't ignore. og out Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html "My state of New York is a state that practiced capital punishment since its colonial days, then abolished it in 1965. But now, as of September 1, 1995, the death penalty is back in the books in accordance to Governor Pataki's campaign promise. As a staunch supporter of the death penalty, I consider this to be a good thing for my state and its citizens." Were you born in NY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 God forgives the confessed and repentant sinner a lot more easily than some around here... Really? Are you saying that there are "those" on this forum that God won't or can't forgive? Number one,I don't think you are in charge of what God can or will do. Secondly is that a judgment from the side that doesn't judge? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Good point. In fact -- in every state - if you kill the same fetus outside the womb as was inside -- it is called murder. It seems that "the state gets the point" even if some Christians are slow on the draw. The Christian "should know" that the value of human life is the SAME -- no matter what the "location" is. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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