1 Cor 15

[David_McQueen]

[:"brown"] Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? I die every day–I mean that, brothers–just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink,

for tomorrow we die.”Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God–I say this to your shame. [/]

Anyone care to help a tired old brain figure this passage of scipture out. Especially the bold bits.

[benherndon]

David, I have not researched this matter but only have been reading as you have.

1Cor 15 is all about the Resurrection of Christ and whether one believes in it or not. Paul does believe it and gives evidence that 500 people saw Christ after He was resurrected. Some people apparently do not believe a resurrection is possible at all(its a little hard for me, a surgeon, who has witnessed so much death.)---IOW if one is dead, there is no coming 'back', forever, is the skeptics claim. But there are some who believe in praying for and getting baptized posthumously for those who have died. I understand Mormons do this sometimes. Paul asks that IF there is no resurrection why do people get baptized for them----???? Good question. Perhaps even if they didn't believe in the resurrection, yet, they get baptized for the dead, perhaps the dead will be admitted to heaven in spiritual form without showing up on this earth again as resurrected bodies? This is only a wild guess on my part.

Included in the text you presented there is a phrase "Bad company corrupts good character." Somewhere in my past I heard that that phrase came from the Greek comedy writer, Menander, and from his last comedy written, THAIS. When I (via Google) typed the phrase to be searched in THAIS, it said the phrase was not found. Soooo, perhaps, the source was in error or somehow it couldn't be pulled up when I wanted it--or perhaps the Bible only gives a paraphrase of the idea which may have been in THAIS--??.

At any rate, this is one of the very rare instances in which literal copying or referencing other's writings can be found in the New Testament, I am told. Because it was not 'footnoted', defenders of EGW against the charge of plaigarism have cited Paul as a plaigarist, also. Seems like awfully weak comparison to me.

However, the main reason I believe in Christianity personally is the probability of the truth of Christ's resurrection based upon Paul's witness and personal conviction. It was the resurrection that convinced Paul Christ was the Son of God it seems to me. I believe it by faith. I would prefer real human evidence but I believe by faith that it is true.

If there was no resurrection possible, then Christ was not raised, Paul says. If Christ was not raised from death, then, our faith if futile! We are to be pitied. The resurrection is the basis of Paul's belief and it is mine, too. The most significant text in the entire Bible is, "He is risen!!".

WDYT?

Ben

[David_McQueen]

Am looking at this some more and must admit that the various commentaries on this seem so skewed. On the one hand there is the Mormon/Catholic view of baptism for the dead, then there is the Orthodox/Protestant position that this is either talking about being Pauls recognition of a pagan tradition that does not apply to Christianity or that the death referred to here is spiritual.

Why y'all gone so quiet on me?

Still searchin.......

[DaveM1936]

I am not sure what the exact interpretation is. This is one of those texts that is very difficult to understand. I tend to put it on a back burner and just admit I don't really know.

One of the views I have heard is that Paul is talking about the resurrrection of Jesus. Some believers, and especially, the Jews, taught that Jesus was never raised from the dead since there was no resurrection. If Jesus was still in the grave, then there is no hope for anyone. All of us are just the living dead. Those who are baptized, hoping to come up from the water a new person, have therefore a false hope.

As far as "I die daily", Paul is referring to his Romans 7 experience. Daily he had to make sure that his old sinful nature did not take control again. Each day was a new resurrection for him in Christ Jesus. If Christ was still in the grave, this new life from Christ each day was impossible.

Your friend,

Dave M

[there buster]

The answer is simple: we don't know.

As I posted in another thread, epistles are occasional writings, that is, they are a response to a specific occasion or event. In this case, at least part of the occasion in question is a letter they had written to Paul.

Quote:

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1Now for the matters you wrote about:

---

Unfortunately, we don't have that letter, so we lack the context Paul is responding to. It's like listening to one end of a telephone conversation. Parts of it are clear, others are completely mystifying.

For example, Paul explicitly addresses certain topics.

Quote:

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1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.

8:1 Now about food sacrificed to idols:

12:1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers,

---

In this case, it's not so direct, but he appears to be answering an issue raised in that letter:

Quote:

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15:12 how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

---

So some in Corinth claim there is no resurrection, while at the same time, others (maybe in the same church, maybe not) that they know of are baptizing for the dead (whatever that means).

Given the context of Paul's remarks, these are probably the same people, or at least connected, because he's pointing out an inconsistency between what they say--"there is no resurrection"-- and what they do, baptizing for those same dead ones.

Without the letter, or some archeological discovery that illuminates this passage, we will simply have to say we don't know.

The best examination I've ever seen of it was in the Review, by Angel Rodriguez Sept. 12, 2002.