Nicodema Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I'm curious ... and sometimes it's good to revisit the fundamentals a little. So tell me, from your observations and experiences, and show me from scripture, how you define "a true Christian". Can you tell a tare from a wheat? Or at least, can you tell which plant you are? Can any of us tell? What does the Bible say? What have you all learned? Just wanting to know. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 5, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2005 Someone who agrees with me, of course! {/tongue in cheek} More seriously, I always define it as someone who claims the name of Jesus, then let God sort 'em out... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 5, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2005 Biblically, a true Christian is one who has accepted Christ as Lord of their life. As such that person is on a lifetime journey, the end of which they have not yet arrived at. Properly understood this means that one's Christianity can not be judged by one's life style. All Christians are on a journey that has not ended or reached its final goal. But, the other side of that coin is that when one accepts Christ as Lord of one's life, changes take place in one's life. One who refuses to allow the Holy Spirit to make changes in their life, which is not a judgement a human can make, is not allowing Christ to be Lord of their life. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 Quote: Biblically, a true Christian is one who has accepted Christ as Lord of their life. As such that person is on a lifetime journey, the end of which they have not yet arrived at. Properly understood this means that one's Christianity can not be judged by one's life style. All Christians are on a journey that has not ended or reached its final goal. So that basically means we should not judge one another based on: what we eat what we drink what we wear what we watch what we listen to what hobbies we engage what we do for recreation/amusement where we spend our money whether we smoke/drink (in moderation) or not what sort of work we do whether we use cosmetics or not the length of our hair (men & women) the length of our hemlines (usually just women) etc. - of thine own ingenium add thou more ... Quote: But, the other side of that coin is that when one accepts Christ as Lord of one's life, changes take place in one's life. One who refuses to allow the Holy Spirit to make changes in their life, which is not a judgement a human can make, is not allowing Christ to be Lord of their life. This gets sticky though. How can we really know when an idea of something to "change" is coming to us from the real Holy Spirit and not from immersion in churchly culture or imbibing someone else's conscience-binding? I have found we can do as much harm to our "walks" and our souls by this as by refusing to let the Holy Spirit become active in making changes. If another cannot judge this for us -- and I agree they cannot, and should not -- how are we to assess it for ourselves?? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Can we get as simple as "love"? True relationship with Christ is hard to judge from the outside. Changes can be made outwardly (or, as Nico points out, we can resist the HS making changes in us). But I think a person who truly acts out of love and compassion for everyone he/she comes in contact with is showing and living a true Christian life. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 5, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2005 Nico: Maybe we should not judge another. The Bible tells us that judgement of another is the function of God. So, do we humans have a role for judgement? Yes. Our role for judgement relates to ourselves. We are to judge (determine, decide) what is God's will for us, and what is not. So, while I am not to judge your hemline, it is appropriate for me to judge my hemline. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> It is appropriate for me to decide that your hemline is not appropriate for me. Yes, culture, and, more does make is sticky. What is modest for a Christian in the culture of the United States (whatever that is) may not be the same as it is in S. Korea, or India. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 Quote: Can we get as simple as "love"? True relationship with Christ is hard to judge from the outside. Changes can be made outwardly (or, as Nico points out, we can resist the HS making changes in us). But I think a person who truly acts out of love and compassion for everyone he/she comes in contact with is showing and living a true Christian life. In general I like this idea, Michelle. However, I am concerned about cases where a heart that genuinely desires to show love and compassion is laboring under daunting and crippling circumstances -- a lack of social skill or graces, an unfortunate default personality, or things not developed properly during the formative years such as basic empathy. A low self-esteem even -- such a common place little thing like that -- can wreak havoc with one's ability to exercise love and compassion in practical expressions. Not arguing against your post; just thought I'd put these situations out there for exploring and dissection if any are interested .... Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 I've been thinking a lot lately about the concept of the duty to the "weaker brethren" laid out in Scripture, what it means to do things not because you believe you must do them that way but to avoid offending the conscience of a weaker brother or sister who feels bound to such things. Sometimes it's hard to spot a "weaker" cuz they like to come on so strong! LOL. But paying attention to their needs and serving them in Christ -- bearing one another's burdens -- I think this must be part of what it means to be a true Christian. Can we break this down into practical applications? It's so easy to stay in the abstract; I want to make it more real and graspable for myself, this life I am called by God to live. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveM1936 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I regard myself as one of the "weaker" brothers. Let me tell what happened recently. The final date for paying my taxes was Dec. 31 last year. I have absolutely nothing. Where was I going to get it? I prayed about it. Then I decided to let people know my delimma and step back and let the Holy Spirit work. So I called the pastor and told him the problem. "Write out what you just told me and hand it to me in church," he said. So I did. He handed it immediately to a member of the church board standing near. I said no more to anyone. But within two weeks the church members had given me $1200, which was $400 more than the taxes. Ever since, they had tried to look out for me and help me. To say that I was greatly moved is an understatement. Just sitting in the pews with these people would never had convinced me of the deep love the possessed. You could not tell by looking what kind of people they are. But when presented with a need, they did not hesitate to take action. I am still indebted to them, not just for the money, but for the Christian love they possess. Your friend, Dave M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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