pnattmbtc Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Quote: it also appears to me that both sides agree that it's not OK for a Christian to willfully sin This is the position and point that Redwood is being challenged on. Mark :-) I can challenge you on legalism. I can challenge you on premarital sex. I can challenge you on Panthism. I can challenge you on your belief that homosexuality is ok for the Christian. I could go on and on about your beliefs. And it would not matter how many times you deny them ... I will still challenge you on them. Wow. Only a stupid fool would believe that I think it is ok for a Christian to willfully sin. So there you have it. Now continue as you are ... telling lies that I believe that it is ok to willfully sin. But each time you go on and continue to do this ... I will call you a liar and a fraud. For that is what you are if you continue to do this after I've clearly told you I don't believe it. As you were. This seems like a rather unnecessarily long-winded answer. At any rate, it supports what I've been saying regarding straw men. One the one hand, there are those who appear to be claiming that legalism is involved simply because one believes that it's possible for a Christian to be victorious over sin. On the other hand, there are those saying that if one denies this, then one believes it's OK to willfully sin. I hope these straw men can be laid to rest, and we can really discuss what the actually differences of opinion are. So what are the difference? What exactly is it that is being disagreed about? I asked this days ago, and to the best of my knowledge, the question hasn't been answered. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 That sounds like a good approach, friend. Hopefully this will shed some light on the question. Exhibit A “I sin willfully all the time. I will sin until the day I die. Praise God ... He has made provisions for those sins. We live in a sinful world. Praise God .... He loves me anyways” (Redwood). regards, g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 13, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 13, 2009 Looks like you know how to search the archives. Why don't you exhibit more like statements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Quote: it also appears to me that both sides agree that it's not OK for a Christian to willfully sin This is the position and point that Redwood is being challenged on. Mark :-) I can challenge you on legalism. I can challenge you on premarital sex. I can challenge you on Panthism. I can challenge you on your belief that homosexuality is ok for the Christian. I could go on and on about your beliefs. And it would not matter how many times you deny them ... I will still challenge you on them. Wow. Only a stupid fool would believe that I think it is ok for a Christian to willfully sin. So there you have it. Now continue as you are ... telling lies that I believe that it is ok to willfully sin. But each time you go on and continue to do this ... I will call you a liar and a fraud. For that is what you are if you continue to do this after I've clearly told you I don't believe it. As you were. Is this not your post and your words Redwood: #274613 The reason I ask is that some claim that in the end times ... people must be sinless. But yet in all times prior to this ... that is not the requirement for salvation. Interesting. There are many examples of people who had not conquered sin ... yet they will be saved. Now picture this .... we have sinners headed for heaven. But unless they are changed in that moment in the twinkling of an eye ... we will have sin in Heaven. Praise God ... those who accept the sacrifice of Jesus ... they will be saved and their sin issue will be taken care of when they see His Face. I somehow doubt that He would change the conditions of Salvation. I long for the day when I can see His Face. Come quickly Lord Jesus. Come quickly.______ So please correct me here. But you are saying here that we do not need to be saved from sin now, all sin is dealt with when Jesus comes, so that is when it is overcome. Or in other words, we are saved as willful sinners because Jesus deals with it when He comes? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Revelation 14:5 (speaking of the 144,000)And no lie was found in their mouth, they are guiltless. Revelation 3:3,4 Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white; for they are worthy. Matthew 24:42-44 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. "For this reason you also must be ready ; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7 (1957), page 959, paragraph 3 Chapter Title: Revelation 1-5 (Matthew 22:14). A Few Faithful Ones in Sardis.--The church of Sardis is represented as having in it a few faithful ones among the many who had become, as it were, careless and insensible of their obligations to God. "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy." Who is so favored as to be numbered among these few in Sardis? Are you? Am I? Who are among this number? Is it not best for us to inquire into this matter, in order that we may learn to whom the Lord refers when He says that a few have not stained their white robes of character (MS 81, 1900)? It is clear that when Christ returns like a thief in the night, there are a few (144,000)that are blameless. This coming like a thief occurs before the great tribulation starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Only a stupid fool would believe that I think it is ok for a Christian to willfully sin. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 You can think whatever you want about what I believe. In the end ... you will lie and twist what I say so that it has no resemblence of what I believe. SO... I will stick to discussions with honest brokers. From my experience ... you do not treat me honestly. So, I will say it again. I don't want your help. I don't need your help. According to you I am going to Hell and I would like to just keep it that way. STOP trying to convert me to your legalism. Back Off. Just because the moderator here is allowing it. Does not mean that I want to participate in personal assaults. Discuss the issues but do not make things personal. I have indicated that I do not wish to have my beliefs torn apart. For I realize that your legalized brains would not be able to comprehend and even if you did ... you would twist and lie about them. So ... be gone with you. I want no part of it. Leave me alone. I am trying to figure out other ways of articulating this for your limited capacity ... but don't know if that is possible. I am always willing to share my faith with those who are honest and seek it in an honest way. I don't see that here. SO, let me just say ... Bug OFF Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 SO, let me just say ... Bug OFF _________________________ Love WON Another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Redwood, I don't know who you're speaking to. As you didn't say, and your post immediately follows mine, where I addressed you, I think it gives the impressions it is I. However, I've never said you or anyone else is going to hell, nor would I even consider doing so. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 14, 2009 Members Share Posted December 14, 2009 If you look at the top of all the posts you will see the title of the thread and then [re: someone's name]. In Redwood's post it reads Quote: Re: The secret to being Born Again... [Re: Twilight] . He was responding to Twilight. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Thanks! This is very difficult to see on my computer (because of the color scheme, black against dark blue). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 14, 2009 Members Share Posted December 14, 2009 Off topic: You can edit the color scheme by going to "My preferences" (under My Stuff at the top) and selecting a different "stylesheet"... I think the easiest one to read and use is called "Ostern". Back to topic... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yes. Thanks Rudywoofs. My preference is dropshadow. But to each his own. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 "OSTERN" Forevermore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Off topic: You can edit the color scheme by going to "My preferences" (under My Stuff at the top) and selecting a different "stylesheet"... I think the easiest one to read and use is called "Ostern". Back to topic... Great! Much better. Thanks. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Don't tell me you did Ostern. Didn't you listen to ME? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Quote: Re: The secret to being Born Again... Short answer? Come to Jesus and stay there. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God . 1 John 4:7. "Our duty is to live in the atmosphere of Christ's love, to breathe His love deeply, and to reflect its warmth around us. Oh, what a sphere of influence is open before us! How carefully we should cultivate the garden of the soul, so that it may bring forth only pure, sweet, fragrant flowers! Words of love, tenderness, and charity sanctify our influence over others." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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