"In Christ" what does that mean?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Please state what this term means and prove it with facts and reason. I believe that there we may come up with some pretty interesting answers and have a good discussion that will help us all understand what that term means.

First, I would like to say that it does not mean the same thing in every instance. Also, there are other words used to define the same thing and we can use those as well to get to a good definition.

Sincerely,

Norman

[Gerr]

You can't be "in Christ" and be "in Satan" at the same time.

[Woody]

You can't be "in Christ" and be "in Satan" at the same time.

Depending upon which definition one uses ... yes you can.

[Woody]

NORMAN

WELL that is a good question

being in CHRIST is to have CHRIST influence you life

in all aspects Physical---Mental---Spiritual

dgrimm60

That's a good thought dgrimm. We have his influence in our life. Even though we may go against his influence ... we are still in Christ. For we are covered by His Robe. In that sense we are always IN Christ. For we are not yo-yo's. We don't pop in and out of Christ each time we sin. He knows our heart. He knows our character which is to come to Him and seek forgiveness. So we remain IN Him even though we sin. We are IN Him even before we ask for forgiveness. Because God knows our heart character.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

You can't be "in Christ" and be "in Satan" at the same time.

Depending upon which definition one uses ... yes you can.

Sooooooooooo, whose definition are you using?

[Woody]

Well ... let's look at the example of Israel. Look at how longsuffering God was with them. They kept sinning ... but yet in the eyes of God ... they were still HIS people.

So ... that is GOD's definition.

[Gerr]

REALLY His people?

"And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief." Heb 3:18,19 ESV

"NO ONE can serve two masters." -Jesus.

[Woody]

I praise God for His loyalty to me ... a sinner.

I don't have to worry if I am in Him or not. I have His Robe ... and I am in Him even when I sin. For He has covered me with His Robe. Praise God He doesn't dis-Robe me each time I sin.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Redwood,

The Children of Israel were God's people however, their end was determined when Christ said this Mat 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Many of those who sinned fell in the wilderness and were lost. They ended up rejected of God because they kept sinning and in the end were so blinded by sin that they refused the Messiah.

Well ... let's look at the example of Israel. Look at how longsuffering God was with them. They kept sinning ... but yet in the eyes of God ... they were still HIS people.

So ... that is GOD's definition.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

OK Back to the topic.

Here what "in Christ" does not mean. Just pointing out a belief that is held by some; this is not an attack, even though I don't agree with it

It is said by some that the whole world is in Christ. They say this because Levi was in Abraham's loins, (not yet born)when he paid tithe to Melchizedek therefore Levi paid tithe.

Using this analogy they say that we are all born in Adam and therefore because of his sin we all sinned in Adam (which they fail to see that this means that Christ would have sinned)

According to this teaching Christ was the 2nd Adam and the whole world was in Him. Therefore when Christ lived on earth and overcame sin, we overcame; when He died on the cross we died, when He went to heaven we went with Him; that is, The whole world! That is one reason why they believe that our works have nothing to do with our salvation.

They understand that to mean that we are fallen from grace and gone back to trying to earn our salvation or we are back under the law.

But this teaching is way out of context and I believe dangerous. I do not have the time tonight to finish this so I hoe to get back sometime this week.

In Christ means to live in His Spirit and teachings, doing those things which He did in our limited but expanding capabilities.

more to come, please continue posting

[Gerr]

GERRY

NORMAN'S question was what does it mean to be in CHRIST

so we need to focus on this

dgrimm60

Sometimes we define things by what it is not. Take 1 Cor 13 for example.

[Gerr]

I praise God for His loyalty to me ... a sinner.

I don't have to worry if I am in Him or not. I have His Robe ... and I am in Him even when I sin. For He has covered me with His Robe. Praise God He doesn't dis-Robe me each time I sin.

"He who does what is sinful is of the devil." 1 Jn 3:8 NIV

"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." Rev 16:15 NIV

[Woody]

Yes. I'll keep my Robe with me at all times.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I praise God for His loyalty to me ... a sinner.

I don't have to worry if I am in Him or not. I have His Robe ... and I am in Him even when I sin. For He has covered me with His Robe. Praise God He doesn't dis-Robe me each time I sin.

"He who does what is sinful is of the devil." 1 Jn 3:8 NIV

"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." Rev 16:15 NIV

[pnattmbtc]

Here what "in Christ" does not mean. Just pointing out a belief that is held by some; this is not an attack, even though I don't agree with it

It is said by some that the whole world is in Christ. They say this because Levi was in Abraham's loins, (not yet born)when he paid tithe to Melchizedek therefore Levi paid tithe.

[Woody]

Hey ... I've been accused of a lot of things. I've been told I'm going to Hell even ... but for certain ... I did not say the above quotes.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"He who does what is sinful is of the devil." 1 Jn 3:8 NIV

"Behold' date=' I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." Rev 16:15 NIV

And to quote a friend of mine here on this forum :

John317 ...

Quote:

"What you do not apparently understand is we are both holy and sinners at the same time." #193136 - Yesterday at 07:02 PM [/quote']

All humans have a sinful nature until the day they die or until Christ returns. This does not mean, however, that all people are continuing to practice willful, deliberate sin until Christ returns. Those who are continuing to practice willful, deliberate sin at that time will be left behind.

[Woody]

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

[Woody]

Legalist won't make it to Heaven ... but then that's not the topic here is it?

[LifeHiscost]

Well ... let's look at the example of Israel. Look at how longsuffering God was with them. They kept sinning ... but yet in the eyes of God ... they were still HIS people.

The relationship between God and His children is determined by their choices.

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."Isaiah 59:2 KJV

Was there some other major reason why all but two of God's children died in the desert wilderness and lost entrance into the promised land?

"And with whom was He irritated and provoked and grieved for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dismembered bodies were strewn and left in the desert?"Hebrews 3:17 AMP

Regards!

[Woody]

Our choices are critical. Those who believe in legalism will perish. So we have to study scriptures and invite the Holy Spirit to guide us unto ALL Truth and not just we want to hear. Humans find it very hard to trust in God for salvation. They think they must do something to earn it. And oh do they desire to do it on their own instead of accepting it from God.

[John317]

There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy.

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. If our hearts are renewed in the likeness of God, if the divine love is implanted in the soul, will not the law of God be carried out in the life? When the principle of love is implanted in the heart, when man is renewed after the image of Him that created him, the new-covenant promise is fulfilled, "I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." Hebrews 10:16. And if the law is written in the heart, will it not shape the life? Obedience--the service and allegiance of love--is the true sign of discipleship. Thus the scripture says, "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 5:3; 2:4. Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience.

We do not earn salvation by our obedience; for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith. But obedience is the fruit of faith. "Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him." 1 John 3:5, 6. Here is the true test. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in us, our feelings, our thoughts, our purposes, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God as expressed in the precepts of His holy law. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." 1 John 3:7. Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai.

That so-called faith in Christ which professes to release men from the obligation of obedience to God, is not faith, but presumption. "By grace are ye saved through faith." But "faith, if it hath not works, is dead." Ephesians 2:8; James 2:17. Jesus said of Himself before He came to earth, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And just before He ascended again to heaven He declared, "I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10. The scripture says, "Hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. . . . He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6. SC 59-61

[Woody]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. I don't believe in legalism. I think it is dangerous. But I do believe in putting my faith in Jesus. And letting Him will and do of His good pleasure in our lives is the best method. Trying to earn our way to Heaven will not meet with success.

[LifeHiscost]

Our choices are critical. Those who believe in legalism will perish. So we have to study scriptures and invite the Holy Spirit to guide us unto ALL Truth and not just we want to hear. Humans find it very hard to trust in God for salvation. They think they must do something to earn it. And oh do they desire to do it on their own instead of accepting it from God.

The words of Jesus___

"“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."Matthew 18:3 NKJV

Little children love, beyond normal reason, to do what their earthly fathers ask of them. Yet many who claim to be children of the Heavenly Father manage to find many reasons why to do His will is unimportant, if not totally unnecessary. It seems from the words of Jesus, there is a price difficult to avoid, if we don't learn to ask Him for the strength to rise above our weaknesses, the result of being "in Christ".

" Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Revelation 3:19-21 NKJV

Blessings!

[John317]

Trying to earn our way to Heaven will not meet with success.

Neither will practicing willful, deliberate sin. Both are doomed to utter failure. One is as bad as the other. Satan doesn't care which one we try because he knows they both lead to the same result.

No one on this forum as far as I have seen teaches that we earn our way to heaven.

Ellen White wrote:

Quote:

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.SC 59, 60

Robert believes that faith in Christ releases us from the necessity of keeping God's law, and you have often said that our works have nothing do with our salvation. Both ideas are dangerous error.