What is salvation?

[SivartM]

Since this subject taints everything else we talk about here, I would think that it would be a good idea to address what salvation actually is.

So, I made a little survey for us!

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer:

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer:

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer:

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer:

[Woody]

This is looking to much like a test in school. Ha Ha !!

I could use up a lot of valuable cyberspace answering your questions. But they are good ones.

[Kevin H]

I like what Paul Heubech said in his book "Make it Plain"

He discribes it as being lost in the wilderness, then coming across a backwoods man who knows the wilderness like the back of his hand and knows how to bring you back to your home. As long as you are with your guide who knows the way you are no longer lost.

[Steve Billiter]

Since this subject taints everything else we talk about here, I would think that it would be a good idea to address what salvation actually is.

So, I made a little survey for us!

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer:

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer:

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer:

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer:

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer:

Here is a short paper I wrote on salvation some months ago. It is by no means exhaustive, but it is Biblically based and does not contain my own opinions. It does contain some of my interpretation of the gospel, which I believe is theologically sound. It is the Bible that points the way to salvation. It is not determined by what any man may say that it is according to beliefs that depart from the plain Word of God. The great question,"What must I do to be Saved?" Is the one that should be of paramount importance overriding all other topics. We are held responsible by the Creator of the universe for what we believe and teach.

Saved Through Faith in Jesus

Have we come to the foot of the cross to obtain the free gift of everlasting life? Have we met the conditions our Lord has given us to follow? No other subject is so compelling; no other topic is so important, or so relevant!

“Then let none say that there are no conditions to salvation. There are decided conditions, and everyone is put to the strenuous task of diligently inquiring and searching for the truth from God's word. At the peril of our souls we must know the prescribed conditions given by Him who has given His own life to save us from ruin. We will certainly be lost if we float along with the current of the world, receiving the sayings of men. By our selfish love of ease and by our indolence we endanger our souls and the souls of others. We are to seek earnestly to know what saith the Lord”. {13MR 22.1}

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

We must meet His conditions to be born again. repentance is the theme throughout the Bible from the time Adam sacrificed animals, that pointed to Jesus who fulfilled the types and shadows, and then He came preaching repentance.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

So as we are convicted by the Holy Spirit of the need to accept Christ as our Savior:

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

We can choose to accept Him or reject Him. When we accept Christ, we confess our sins and fully turn away from them, (repentance) This could be a several years processes Jesus taught in John 3, no definite time is given.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

When we complete these conditions for salvation, we are then converted, born again:

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Our whole attitude changes! We then hunger and thirst for righteousness, we begin to have the blessings of the Beatitudes. Here is Ellen White on the beatitudes:

Desire of Ages (page 299)

Without combating their ideas of the kingdom of God, He told them the conditions of entrance therein, leaving them to draw their own conclusions as to its nature. The truths He taught are no less important to us than to the multitude that followed Him. We no less than they need to learn the foundation principles of the kingdom of God. {DA 299.3}

Christ's first words to the people on the mount were words of blessing. Happy are they, He said, who recognize their spiritual poverty, and feel their need of redemption. The gospel is to be preached to the poor. Not to the spiritually proud, those who claim to be rich and in need of nothing, is it revealed, but to those who are humble and contrite. One fountain only has been opened for sin, a fountain for the poor in spirit. {DA 299.4}

So the beatitudes are connected to salvation, we cannot fully have these blessings until we fulfill the conditions for salvation and continue in the process of sanctification.

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness." The sense of unworthiness will lead the heart to hunger and thirst for righteousness, and this desire will not be disappointed. Those who make room in their hearts for Jesus will realize His love. All who long to bear the likeness of the character of God shall be satisfied. The Holy Spirit never leaves unassisted the soul who is looking unto Jesus. He takes of the things of Christ and shows them unto him. If the eye is kept fixed on Christ, the work of the Spirit ceases not until the soul is conformed to His image. The pure element of love will expand the soul, giving it a capacity for higher attainments, for increased knowledge of heavenly things, so that it will not rest short of the fullness. "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled." {DA 302.1}

We cannot earn our salvation, it is a free gift.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. As we are converted, we love the things we used to hate, and hate the things we used to love. We should desire to keep the commandments out of our love for the Savior, and because it is the right thing to do. In addition, we are forming our characters for heaven and there will be no sin there.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The power of the Holy Spirit, and our own choices, will allow us to gain the victory over all sin:

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil. While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God's people upon earth. This work is more clearly presented in the messages of Revelation 14. {GC 425.1}

We are preparing to meet Him who, escorted by a retinue of holy angels, is to appear in the clouds of heaven to give the faithful and the just the finishing touch of immortality. When He comes He is not to cleanse us of our sins, to remove from us the defects in our characters, or to cure us of the infirmities of our tempers and dispositions. If wrought for us at all, this work will all be accomplished before that time. When the Lord comes, those who are holy will be holy still. {2T 355.1}

Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Nothing but holiness will prepare you for heaven. It is sincere, experimental piety alone that can give you a pure, elevated character and enable you to enter into the presence of God, who dwelleth in light unapproachable. The heavenly character must be acquired on earth, or it can never be acquired at all. Then begin at once. Flatter not yourself that a time will come when you can make an earnest effort easier than now. Every day increases your distance from God. Prepare for eternity with such zeal as you have not yet manifested. Educate your mind to love the Bible, to love the prayer meeting, to love the hour of meditation, and, above all, the hour when the soul communes with God. Become heavenly-minded if you would unite with the heavenly choir in the mansions above. 276 {CCh 187.1}

Men were taught that it is possible to obey the law of God; that even while living in the midst of the sinful and corrupt, they were able, by the grace of God, to resist temptation, and become pure and holy. They saw in his example the blessedness of such a life; and his translation was an evidence of the truth of his prophecy concerning the hereafter, with its award of joy and glory and immortal life to the obedient, and of condemnation, woe, and death to the transgressor. {PP 88.2}

By faith Enoch "was translated that he should not see death; . . . for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." Hebrews 11:5. In the midst of a world by its iniquity doomed to destruction, Enoch lived a life of such close communion with God that he was not permitted to fall under the power of death. The godly character of this prophet represents the state of holiness which must be attained by those who shall be "redeemed from the earth" (Revelation 14:3) at the time of Christ's second advent.(PP. p. 88,89)

So when we receive the final seal of God, as probation closes, Jesus comes to rescue the saints with all of the holy angels!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We all entered the cloud together, and were seven days ascending to the sea of glass, when Jesus brought the crowns, and with His own right hand placed them on our heads. He gave us harps of gold and palms of victory. Here on the sea of glass the 144,000 stood in a perfect square. Some of them had very bright crowns, others not so bright. Some crowns appeared heavy with stars, while others had but few. All were perfectly satisfied with their crowns. And they were all clothed with a glorious white mantle from their shoulders to their feet. Angels were all about us as we marched over the sea of glass to the gate of the city.

Jesus raised His mighty, glorious arm, laid hold of the pearly gate, swung it back on its glittering hinges, and said to us, "You have washed your robes in My blood, stood stiffly for My truth, enter in." We all marched in and felt that we had a perfect right in the city. {EW 16.2}

Maranatha! Even so, Lord Jesus, come.

(Steve Billiter)

[Robert]

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer: It means the truth as it is "in Christ Jesus" received by faith.

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer: For those with a Bible it should be very clear....Lucky for all us God takes us where we are at....

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer: See answer to # 2

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer: A change of mind...A redirection of the heart from our bent to self towards agape.

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer: Being just before God's holy law [which is much more then the letter of the law] in the history of Christ received by faith alone.

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer: Becoming less selfish....growing in grace, which is only possible if you have the absolute assurance of salvation. Otherwise all your so called good deeds will be egocentric....See 1 Cor 13:3-5 for example

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved?

If your mind has taken a u-turn you are not in rebellion against God even though you are having the experience of the man of Romans 7....Your heart is right, even though your performance is lacking.

Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Silly question....Of course not!

[Kevin H]

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer: The glory of him that is love will consume the wicked. God is the consuming fire. God's character is sweeter than honey and the honey comb, more desierable than gold. Jesus is our deepest desire. Salvation is what Jesus does to change us from the chaft that is consumend by the eternal fire to where we thrive in this fire and find it to be heaven.

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer: See my above post about Paul Heubech's book. Salvation is what Jesus does to us so that his pressence is not a consuming fire but heaven. The Holy Spirit is always pointing us to Jesus, as long as we are responding to the Holy Spirit's influence we are saved. If we are rejecting it we are lost.

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer: Jesus saves us, not some sort of righteousness by vocabulary. There will be those who will ask Jesus about the nail prints in his hands when in heaven. According to Jim Ayrs, until the time of St. Augustine the church taught that what Jesus did on the cross was so powerful that it saved everyone except those who actively reject what the cross did and that Missionaries were helping people understand what Jesus did for them and help deepen their relationship with Jesus. Starting with Augustine the church changed to everyone being lost except those who actively accept the gospel message. Maybe these two ideas are not so far appart if you consider the work of the Holy Spirit on everyone and that everyone is yielding to the Holy Spirit's pointing to Jesus, or rejecting it.

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer: We have a sinful nature; a disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. A disposition to think we are for ourselves by esteaming ourselves above our breathern. This is in direct conflect with our deepest desier, to be like and with Jesus. "When we love the world as he [Jesus]has loved it then for us his mission is accomplished, we are fitted for heaven for we have heaven in our heart. Conversion is when the Holy Spirit points us towards our deepest desire and we start choosing against our sinful nature and towards our deepest desier. But this is a constant choice, as we always have the sinful nature to choose against and our deepest desier to choose for.

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer: A word that we find in inspired writings means the same as conversion. God sees us as on his side.

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer: What happens when we yield to the Holy Spirit, what happens when we start being fair to the world around us. What happens as we choose against our sinful nature, as we avoid contempt and external control psychology on others, and we start avoiding the habit of setting ourselves up for failure.

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer: Have you stopped beating your wife? There is something confusing about this question. Until Jesus comes we are always in the constant choice between loving the world as Jesus has loved it, and our disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. Mrs. White says it's not the occasional good deed or the occasional misdeed, but the general trend of the life. Are we developing a character to find ourselves thriving in the eternal fire, or a character that will be consumed by the fire? We find some people in history who made habits of eventually consistantly choose against the sinful nature and willing to be fair to the world no matter what. People like Joseph, Daniel, Paul, John Wesley etc. Every generation has had a few. But the last generation every character will be fully developed, either to live for self and contempt of the world around us, or for Christ and to love the world as Jesus has loved it. Some subgroups are looking for a group to be clones of each other and to reach a higher level of righteousness than anyone before. That is not what the Bible and Mrs. White teaches. Only that the last generation will be a generation of Neros and Pauls, of Herods and John Wesleys.

[teresaq]

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer: Have you stopped beating your wife? There is something confusing about this question. Until Jesus comes we are always in the constant choice between loving the world as Jesus has loved it, and our disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. Mrs. White says it's not the occasional good deed or the occasional misdeed, but the general trend of the life. Are we developing a character to find ourselves thriving in the eternal fire, or a character that will be consumed by the fire? We find some people in history who made habits of eventually consistantly choose against the sinful nature and willing to be fair to the world no matter what. People like Joseph, Daniel, Paul, John Wesley etc. Every generation has had a few. But the last generation every character will be fully developed, either to live for self and contempt of the world around us, or for Christ and to love the world as Jesus has loved it. Some subgroups are looking for a group to be clones of each other and to reach a higher level of righteousness than anyone before. That is not what the Bible and Mrs. White teaches. Only that the last generation will be a generation of Neros and Pauls, of Herods and John Wesleys.

this was well written and thought out. for me they are good points. :)

[Steve Billiter]

Salvation is being saved from eternal death and given eternal life.

It is saved, from what? From death.

Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and encircled the camp of the saints, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up like calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And you shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, says the LORD of hosts.

[pnattmbtc]

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer: In the Greek, the word "saved" means the same thing as "healed." "Saved" can mean many things, depending upon the context, but considering the aspect of "healed" is a helpful way of looking at it, I believe.

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer:Addressed in 1.

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer:Salvation has to do with responding to God, now with one's knowledge of facts.

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer:Having one's thoughts and desires aligned with God's, as opposed to centered on self.

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer:"Pardon and justification are one and the same thing."

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer:The ongoing process of becoming more like Christ.

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer:No to the first question. No to the second, provided "saved" does not mean actually being beyond the possibility of falling.

[teresaq]

Question 1: Describe what salvation means to you in one or two paragraphs.

Answer: In the Greek, the word "saved" means the same thing as "healed." "Saved" can mean many things, depending upon the context, but considering the aspect of "healed" is a helpful way of looking at it, I believe.

Question 2: Do you believe that everyone who has a different interpretation of salvation than you is wrong? In other words, is salvation clearly definable or are there many different aspects or faces, none of which are "truer" than the others?

Answer:Addressed in 1.

Question 3: Do you believe that we all need to agree about all aspects of salvation, or is it possible to be saved by simply knowing the basic principles of salvation?

Answer:Salvation has to do with responding to God, now with one's knowledge of facts.

Question 4: What does "conversion" mean to you?

Answer:Having one's thoughts and desires aligned with God's, as opposed to centered on self.

Question 5: What does "justification" mean to you?

Answer:"Pardon and justification are one and the same thing."

Question 6: What does "sanctification" mean to you?

Answer:The ongoing process of becoming more like Christ.

Question 7: Do you believe that it is possible to be in rebellion against God and still be saved? Conversely, do you believe that one is not saved unless/until they have overcome all sin?

Answer:No to the first question. No to the second, provided "saved" does not mean actually being beyond the possibility of falling.

very Christ-centered.

glorify Yourself, Almighty One.

[pnattmbtc]

Are we developing a character to find ourselves thriving in the eternal fire, or a character that will be consumed by the fire?

Great question!

[Robert]

Salvation is being saved from eternal death and given eternal life.

It is saved, from what? From death.

You've almost got it....Salvation is to be saved from the 2nd death, which is the curse of the law. See Gal 3:10

[karl]

To be transformed by the indwelling Spirit of Christ so that it is my normal attitude to love mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with my God.

[Guest]

I think you said a mouthful Karl.

[pnattmbtc]

You've almost got it....Salvation is to be saved from the 2nd death, which is the curse of the law. See Gal 3:10

[Guest]

Excellent

[Kevin H]

To be transformed by the indwelling Spirit of Christ so that it is my normal attitude to love mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with my God.

May I dissagree a little bit with you Karl? Not even a big dissagreement but a modification since we will always have in us until glorification the disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world:

"To be transformed by the indwelling Spirit of Christ so that dispite my sinful nature, to choose against the disposition to think I am for myself by making less of the outside world and instead love mercy, do justly and walk humbly with my God."

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You've almost got it....Salvation is to be saved from the 2nd death, which is the curse of the law. See Gal 3:10

Salvation is from sin. Death is the inevitable result of sin. Saving us from sin saves us from death.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Salvation is from sin. Death is the inevitable result of sin. Saving us from sin saves us from death.

No, you are wrong....Salvation is from "the curse of the law". Read Gal chapter 3.

Quote:

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Matt. 1:21)[/quote']

Yes, the result of sin (one's bent-to-self - iniquity) is death...the 2nd death. If you insist that He came to make us sinless (which is what the law requires) then we are in trouble. Even if you did become totally selfless you have a mountain of sins that witness against you....So, Christ came to save us from our sins because the law requires for God to abandon us to our own unbelief, which is the 2nd death.

His goal is to save us from our sins, for eternity. If we do not over come every sin in this life, there will be no heaven.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

It is not overcoming anything else but sin.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

What is Holiness? It is the absence of sin.

Sequeria will not help you!

[karl]

What is Holiness? It is the absence of sin.

I believe the call goes higher than the absence of transgression of the law, as Paul pointed out. Whatever is not of faith, is sin. The absence of transgression of the law is entry level transformation, and a lot of salvation discussions center around that, but Christ clearly calls us higher.

There are the weightier matters of the law, and then there are the fruits of the Spirit, against which there is no law.

This ought thou to have done, and not left the other undone.

I think Paul was calling us all to press on toward the mark of the much higher calling of God than just avoiding transgressing the law.

[Robert]

If we do not over come every sin in this life, there will be no heaven.

Legalism! This is salvation by works.

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Salvation is from sin. Death is the inevitable result of sin. Saving us from sin saves us from death.

No, you are wrong....Salvation is from "the curse of the law". Read Gal chapter 3.

Quote:

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Matt. 1:21)

Yes, the result of sin (one's bent-to-self - iniquity) is death...the 2nd death. If you insist that He came to make us sinless (which is what the law requires) then we are in trouble. Even if you did become totally selfless you have a mountain of sins that witness against you....So, Christ came to save us from our sins because the law requires for God to abandon us to our own unbelief, which is the 2nd death. [/quote']

Here's a comment from Waggoner which discusses the curse of the law in Galatians:

Quote:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law." Let us stop right here and contemplate this fact, leaving the way of redemption for later consideration. We need to consider the statement very carefully, for some who read it straightway rush off frantically exclaiming, "We don't need to keep the law, because Christ has redeemed us from the curse of it," as though the text said that Christ redeemed us from the curse of obedience. Such read the Scriptures to no profit. The curse, as we have seen it, is disobedience. "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Therefore, Christ has redeemed us from disobedience to the law. God sent forth His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Rom.8:4.

Some one may lightly say, "Then we are all right; whatever we do is right so far as the law is concerned, since we are redeemed." It is true that all are redeemed, but not all have accepted redemption. Many say of Christ, "We will not have this Man to reign over us," and thrust the blessing of God from them. But redemption is for all; all have been purchased with the precious blood--the life--of Christ, and all may be, if they will, free from sin and death. By that blood we are redeemed from our "vain manner of life." 1Pet.1:18, R.V.

Stop and think what this means; let the full force of the announcement impress itself upon your consciousness. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,"--from not continuing in all its righteous requirements. We need not sin any more. He has snapped asunder the cords of sin that bound us, so that we have but to accept His salvation in order to be free from every besetting sin. It is not necessary for us any longer to spend our lives in earnest longings for a better life, and in vain regrets for desires unrealized. Christ raises no false hopes, but He comes to the captives of sin, and cries to them, "Liberty! Your prison doors are open. Go forth." What more can be said? Christ has gained the complete victory over "this present evil world," over "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life," and our faith in Him makes His victory ours. We have but to accept it.

The curse of the law comes upon the disobedient.

[pnattmbtc]

I believe the call goes higher than the absence of transgression of the law, as Paul pointed out. Whatever is not of faith, is sin. The absence of transgression of the law is entry level transformation, and a lot of salvation discussions center around that, but Christ clearly calls us higher.

There are the weightier matters of the law, and then there are the fruits of the Spirit, against which there is no law.

This ought thou to have done, and not left the other undone.

I think Paul was calling us all to press on toward the mark of the much higher calling of God than just avoiding transgressing the law.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

If we do not over come every sin in this life, there will be no heaven.

Legalism! This is salvation by works.

Not so, its in the Bible, take it to God, He wrote it not me!

[Guest]

Amen