The Holy Spirit, dwelling within...

[Guest]

I live to serve.

[pnattmbtc]

I've told you what I think it means. I don't know how I could make it any plainer, unless I could draw a picture of a body, with the HS inside of it.

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Thanks for the Scripture references. I also wanted to ask a question in relation to demon possession and being in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. Do you see a difference?

Yes, a big difference. One is God and the other are evil spirits. Both, however, are spiritual beings, and both come into us if we invite them. The evil spirits come into people when they give them their permission to take over. By His personal representative, the Holy Spirit, Jesus also comes into us. See Rev. 3: 20 where Jesus says He will come in to us if we will open the door and invite Him in.

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives." This is the only thing I've see so far which is simply a repetition of the phrase (substituting "live" for "dwell" is just a repetition).

If you could amplify your thought here, that would be great.

Applying the meaning to demons we would have the definition of a demon being us meaning "the demon is really in our lives." Similarly, in regards to Christ, we would have that "Christ is really in our lives." I think this is a good start, but needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Regarding my explaining what the phrase means, perhaps I'll do so tomorrow, but I'd really like either Mark or Richard saying something about what they think it means, and also if you could flesh out what you wrote a bit, I'd like that to.

I noticed about 6 years ago I think in myself that I would use certain religious phrases without really thinking about what the phrase really meant. When explaining that phrase, I would use another one, and sort of run into a circle of religious phrases, none of which meant anything, all explaining the others.

If we understand a concept, we should be able to explain it to a child. How would you explain "the Holy Spirit dwells within you" to a child? Again, I think "the Holy Spirit is really in our lives" is a good start. A child could understand that. But is there anything more you could say?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

A demon takes over your conscience and your soul. It makes you do things and say things you wouldn't think, do, or say otherwise.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard

I've told you what I think it means. I don't know how I could make it any plainer, unless I could draw a picture of a body, with the HS inside of it.

No you haven't, Richard.

You said:

Quote:

It means it is literal as opposed to figurative.

and

Quote:

Yep, it's real. That's why you need to keep your body clean.

and you quoted a couple of Scriptures, but at no point did you say what you think the phrase means. If you have an idea what it means, you should be able to explain the meaning. For example, start a sentence like this "To say the Holy Spirit dwells within me means" and finish it with something that doesn't use the word "in" or "dwells" (or a synonym, like "lives"). This is what John did when he said:

Quote:

We mean that He is really in our lives.

John did repeat the word "in," but in a different context. Anyway, he's the only one of those who have said the meaning is literal to give any explanation.

Also, I asked you if you agreed with what John said here. Do you think "the Holy Spirit dwells within me" means "the Holy Spirit is really in my life"?

Ok, you think with your mind, or heart.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

That is where your decisions come from. So it makes sense that the HS abides there if you let him. He will actually guide your thinking. This transforms a person. I need the Holy Spirit to guide my thinking, and I thank God for it. I don't think like I used to. I think this is called conversion. Praise the LORD!

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth....

Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus

[teresaq]

A demon takes over your conscience and your soul. It makes you do things and say things you wouldn't think, do, or say otherwise.

i believe we would all be in agreement, but explaining how im finding difficult.

i believe that believing one being capable of inhabiting another being is spiritualism. and even if it werent, how would a being inside another being be able to make anyone do anything? how exactly would that work?

so on occasion i wonder how satan is able to have power over us.

we know the HS influences/woos us and we respond...He, or the angels make suggestions, outside of us, but somehow in our mind, and we agree or disagree....is it some form of telepathy? or is like a dog whistle a "voice" that we dont know we can hear?

we know of the picture of the good angel/bad angel and since ive been in a few of those battles, unless were thinking there are two angels, one good and one bad literally battling it out inside us.... i have to believe they are outside and we "hear" them somehow. which makes me think of ellen white and when she would cry, more angels, Father! more angels!

and if you werent able to quite follow that, i will understand. :)

[John317]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

A demon takes over your conscience and your soul. It makes you do things and say things you wouldn't think, do, or say otherwise.

i believe we would all be in agreement, but explaining how im finding difficult.

i believe that believing one being capable of inhabiting another being is spiritualism. and even if it werent, how would a being inside another being be able to make anyone do anything? how exactly would that work?

so on occasion i wonder how satan is able to have power over us.

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4IjxRY...;q=&f=false

The above is a good book written by someone with years of experience in working to free demon-possessed people. He was called to speak at many Seventh-day Adventist churches in the US and Canada. He wrote 6 books on the subject, some of which are used widely in the prisons to help prisoners become free of Satan. They have been referred to on 3 ABN and used by the Adventist Prison Ministry. One of the books was printed by the Review and Herald Publishing Assoc. The author was a well-known SDA pastor, author, educator and school administrator. He was also personal friends of two of Ellen White's grandchildren, Mable White Workman and Grace White Jacques.

"Vaughn Allen"

[John317]

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives." This is the only thing I've see so far which is simply a repetition of the phrase (substituting "live" for "dwell" is just a repetition).

If you could amplify your thought here, that would be great.

Applying the meaning to demons we would have the definition of a demon being us meaning "the demon is really in our lives." Similarly, in regards to Christ, we would have that "Christ is really in our lives." I think this is a good start, but needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Regarding my explaining what the phrase means, perhaps I'll do so tomorrow, but I'd really like either Mark or Richard saying something about what they think it means, and also if you could flesh out what you wrote a bit, I'd like that to.

I'm going to wait until you tell what you think. I've said enough for the time being of what I believe it means. Back to you for now. When you talk some, then I'll begin again.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i believe we would all be in agreement, but explaining how im finding difficult.

i believe that believing one being capable of inhabiting another being is spiritualism. and even if it werent, how would a being inside another being be able to make anyone do anything? how exactly would that work?

so on occasion i wonder how satan is able to have power over us.[/quote']

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4IjxRY...;q=&f=false

The above is a good book written by someone with years of experience in working to free demon-possessed people. He was called to speak at many Seventh-day Adventist churches in the US and Canada. He wrote 6 books on the subject, some of which are used widely in the prisons to help prisoners become free of Satan. They have been referred to on 3 ABN and used by the Adventist Prison Ministry. One of the books was printed by the Review and Herald Publishing Assoc. The author was a well-known SDA pastor, author, educator and school administrator. He was also personal friends of two of Ellen White's grandchildren, Mable White Workman and Grace White Jacques.

why thank you, but why do you feel it addresses the points i was thinking about?

perhaps if you tell me what you think i said, we can see if it is what i said. :)

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4IjxRY...;q=&f=false

The above is a good book written by someone with years of experience in working to free demon-possessed people. He was called to speak at many Seventh-day Adventist churches in the US and Canada. He wrote 6 books on the subject, some of which are used widely in the prisons to help prisoners become free of Satan. They have been referred to on 3 ABN and used by the Adventist Prison Ministry. One of the books was printed by the Review and Herald Publishing Assoc. The author was a well-known SDA pastor, author, educator and school administrator. He was also personal friends of two of Ellen White's grandchildren, Mable White Workman and Grace White Jacques.

why thank you, but why do you feel it addresses the points i was thinking about?

perhaps if you tell me what you think i said, we can see if it is what i said.

I must confess I do not know what you were thinking about, but I do know what you wrote. I believe it would be a good book for you to read. It would probably answer some of your questions about the topic if what you wrote is any indication of what you were thinking about at the time you were writing. This book and the others the author wrote directly addresses the issue of how Satan takes possession of people and how they can be free by the power of Christ. It has been a help to many hundreds of people.

His best book, which is written especially for Seventh-day Adventists, is called, Victory On the Battlefield: Setting Captives Free. Besides being a study of what the Bible teaches on the topic, it also contains virtually everything written by Ellen White on the subject of demon possession and the power of Satan to harass, control and possess people:

http://www.teachservices.com/scripts/details.php?stock=945-6084

[pnattmbtc]

Regarding what it means to say that "the Holy Spirit dwells in me," here is the key principle:

Quote:

The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life. Whatever disturbs the circulation of the electric currents in the nervous system lessens the strength of the vital powers, and the result is a deadening of the sensibilities of the mind. (Child Guidance 446)

I'll write in more detail as I have time later one, but the key principle is that heaven communicates with us through the mind, and only through the mind. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit has to do with the mind.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The scripture is plain and literal.

The Holy Spirit dwells within the individual.

Literally...

Why would I need to expand on that any more? :-)

-----------------

Now of course, we can notice that the following posters have not seen fit to declare their positions:

Teresa

Redwood

Pnat

Not only have they not seen fit, they have not even engaged at this point, but asked me to clarify, (or in the case of Redwood - just mocked), my position, (note that Teresa has also tried to insinuate a number of times that this is "Holy Flesh", with no supporting reason)?

So I challenge you now, to show why and how you think this is not literal.

Why you would think this is not literal?

And please explain how Jesus could make it any more clearer that it is literal?

Of course Teresa wants to take this discussion away from this text and use another text to interpret it, but this is extremely poor theology. Until this text is dealt with in context, we cannot really "drift" off to "proof text" an argument.

------------------

My concern here is that we might have a tremendous amount of ignorance on this subject which is foundational to the Christian walk...

Mark :-)

Mark, you've been asked many to explain what you believe, but have as yet refused to do so. You say it's literal, but refuse to say what it means. This is not communicative. I still have no idea what you think this phrase means.

I would be inclined to explain what I understand the phrase to mean if you answered my question. After all, I asked first!

For your convenience, I'll repeat the question. What does it mean to say that "The Holy Spirit dwells within me."? Please explain this using other words (i.e., other than "The Holy Spirit", which obviously needs to be repeated).

It means the "literal presence" of the Holy Spirit, dwells literally inside the believer.

I do not know how to express this any clearer Pnat.

Without you sharing your own view, I have no basis to understand why you do not understand what I am saying?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Of course Teresa wants to take this discussion away from this text and use another text to interpret it, but this is extremely poor theology.

i cant agree with this conclusion.

we have been counseled against taking a single verse for our "dogma" disregarding other verses that would explain and enlighten us.

there is no doubt the sda church has arrived at the exact same place the jewish church was in at Christs first arrival.

well, now i believe i will follow Christs example.... and i thank Him for answering my prayer of glorifying Himself over all.

I just want to break down your response here and answer it:

i cant agree with this conclusion.

we have been counseled against taking a single verse for our "dogma" disregarding other verses that would explain and enlighten us.

There are plenty of other verses, but we should not "run away" from this one, until we have established whether it is literal or figurative.

Does the plain language indicate literality?

Yes.

i do find it "entertaining" to see the claws come out from certain members/moderator when their cherished beliefs are questioned.

This is an "ad-homenim" attack on my character, and is not relevant to the discussion and is of itself not a logical argument, but an attempt to diminish a viewpoint by accusation and the planting of suspicion.

well, now i believe i will follow Christs example.... and i thank Him for answering my prayer of glorifying Himself over all.

Again, this does not really relate to the point. Jesus has expressed that the Holy Spirit dwells within the converted believer.

That is the example you are following?

[Twilight]

Jesus said that demons "enter" people's bodies and "dwell" in them. Jesus also said that evil spirits "go out of a man." Luke 11: 24, 26. This is literal. We do not know why they do it, but we know that they do it. That is what it means to be demon-possessed. Notice that Acts 19: 16 says that the evil spirit was "in" the man. See also Mark 1: 23-26; Matt. 8: 28-33.

If people don't want to believe that the Bible is speaking literally when it says that the Holy Spirit dwells in believers, that is their right to believe it means whatever they choose to believe. But there is no reason not to believe that the Bible means exactly what it says, that the Holy Spirit "dwells with you and will be in you." John 14: 17. Through their personal representative, the Holy Spirit, both the Father and Christ make their home with those who love Christ and keep His word. John 14: 23.

I would actually go further and say the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is salvational.

If someone does not experience this, then they are still under the "old covenant".

They are still being "led" to a salvational relationship, but are not in fact there yet.

This is how serious this teaching is.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I've told you what I think it means. I don't know how I could make it any plainer, unless I could draw a picture of a body, with the HS inside of it.

where exactly would He be in the body? like a hand in a glove? or do you have another picture?

The answer is in the Sanctuary.

The Shekinah Glory dwells in the most Holy Place.

The heart...

Did the Shekinah dwell "literally" in the Most Holy Place?

Yes.

Was it a physical presence, as in flesh and blood?

No.

Was it a physical presense, as in "spirit".

Yes.

It was physically manifested.

Please also share your view.

As if you are holding to error and do not reveal it, no one can address your point.

I am not sure at this point, why you and pnat would hide your own express views?

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes' date=' a big difference. One is God and the other are evil spirits. Both, however, are spiritual beings, and both come into us if we invite them. The evil spirits come into people when they give them their permission to take over. By His personal representative, the Holy Spirit, Jesus also comes into us. See Rev. 3: 20 where Jesus says He will come in to us if we will open the door and invite Him in. [/quote']

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives." This is the only thing I've see so far which is simply a repetition of the phrase (substituting "live" for "dwell" is just a repetition).

If you could amplify your thought here, that would be great.

Applying the meaning to demons we would have the definition of a demon being us meaning "the demon is really in our lives." Similarly, in regards to Christ, we would have that "Christ is really in our lives." I think this is a good start, but needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Regarding my explaining what the phrase means, perhaps I'll do so tomorrow, but I'd really like either Mark or Richard saying something about what they think it means, and also if you could flesh out what you wrote a bit, I'd like that to.

I noticed about 6 years ago I think in myself that I would use certain religious phrases without really thinking about what the phrase really meant. When explaining that phrase, I would use another one, and sort of run into a circle of religious phrases, none of which meant anything, all explaining the others.

If we understand a concept, we should be able to explain it to a child. How would you explain "the Holy Spirit dwells within you" to a child? Again, I think "the Holy Spirit is really in our lives" is a good start. A child could understand that. But is there anything more you could say?

I am beginning to notice something Pnat.

And if it is true, then you have not yet entered into the full gift of the Holy Spirit.

You have said:

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives."

I am inferring from this that you think it means that He is "with us".

Now notice the original text.

Jesus made two comparisons.

He said the Holy Spirit is "with us" and WILL be "in us".

So if you are presenting the position of "with us", you are still in a pre-pentecost experience.

Please clarify if my inferring is correct or incorrect. :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

i believe that believing one being capable of inhabiting another being is spiritualism. and even if it werent, how would a being inside another being be able to make anyone do anything? how exactly would that work?

so on occasion i wonder how satan is able to have power over us.

we know the HS influences/woos us and we respond...He, or the angels make suggestions, outside of us, but somehow in our mind, and we agree or disagree....is it some form of telepathy? or is like a dog whistle a "voice" that we dont know we can hear?

Now I realise where you have gone off track.

The flaw in your reasoning is here:

i believe that believing one being capable of inhabiting another being is spiritualism.

1. The bible teaches that a spiritual being can possess (inhabit a human).

2. Your "belief" says that this is "spiritualism", yet your belief is at odds with scripture.

3. You identify "spiritualism" as a being dwelling in another, but you have already stated you do not believe this happens, so how can "spiritualism" even be a concept you can consider?

we know the HS influences/woos us and we respond...

Again, this is a reference to the Pre-pentecost experience.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit "is" with you, which is what you are describing.

But said there will come a time when He is "in" you, which is what you are saying you do not believe in.

If unbelief does not permit a person to experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then that person is still under the Old Covenant.

They are also incapable of experiencing victory over sin, as they lack the indwelling presence that gives them the victory, they are also caught in the misery of the sin/repent cycle.

They are in the "wilderness wanderings" and not the "promised land" experience.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is foundational to the overcoming life, and indeed is foundational to being saved...

---------------

The core problem in your post is the expressed "unbelief" that the Holy Spirit can dwell in you.

This is not biblical, and it is your position on this that is causing the confusion in your mind.

It is error.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives." This is the only thing I've see so far which is simply a repetition of the phrase (substituting "live" for "dwell" is just a repetition).

If you could amplify your thought here, that would be great.

Applying the meaning to demons we would have the definition of a demon being us meaning "the demon is really in our lives." Similarly, in regards to Christ, we would have that "Christ is really in our lives." I think this is a good start, but needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Regarding my explaining what the phrase means, perhaps I'll do so tomorrow, but I'd really like either Mark or Richard saying something about what they think it means, and also if you could flesh out what you wrote a bit, I'd like that to.

I'm going to wait until you tell what you think. I've said enough for the time being of what I believe it means. Back to you for now. When you talk some, then I'll begin again.

Agreed.

Teresa has already revealed the error in her understanding (see my response above).

This is such a simple truth, that for someone not to receive it means there is error somewhere.

So I suspect some error here.

Mark

[pnattmbtc]

It means the "literal presence" of the Holy Spirit, dwells literally inside the believer.

I do not know how to express this any clearer Pnat.

Yes, that's clear.

[pnattmbtc]

A demon takes over your conscience and your soul. It makes you do things and say things you wouldn't think, do, or say otherwise.

[pnattmbtc]

I would actually go further and say the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is salvational.

If someone does not experience this, then they are still under the "old covenant".

They are still being "led" to a salvational relationship, but are not in fact there yet.

This is how serious this teaching is.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Mark

I would actually go further and say the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is salvational.

If someone does not experience this, then they are still under the "old covenant".

They are still being "led" to a salvational relationship, but are not in fact there yet.

This is how serious this teaching is.

This still doesn't say what it means. This lets us know that it's important, but not what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Originally Posted By: John317

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Thanks for the Scripture references. I also wanted to ask a question in relation to demon possession and being in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. Do you see a difference?

Yes, a big difference. One is God and the other are evil spirits. Both, however, are spiritual beings, and both come into us if we invite them. The evil spirits come into people when they give them their permission to take over. By His personal representative, the Holy Spirit, Jesus also comes into us. See Rev. 3: 20 where Jesus says He will come in to us if we will open the door and invite Him in.

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives." This is the only thing I've see so far which is simply a repetition of the phrase (substituting "live" for "dwell" is just a repetition).

If you could amplify your thought here, that would be great.

Applying the meaning to demons we would have the definition of a demon being us meaning "the demon is really in our lives." Similarly, in regards to Christ, we would have that "Christ is really in our lives." I think this is a good start, but needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Regarding my explaining what the phrase means, perhaps I'll do so tomorrow, but I'd really like either Mark or Richard saying something about what they think it means, and also if you could flesh out what you wrote a bit, I'd like that to.

I noticed about 6 years ago I think in myself that I would use certain religious phrases without really thinking about what the phrase really meant. When explaining that phrase, I would use another one, and sort of run into a circle of religious phrases, none of which meant anything, all explaining the others.

If we understand a concept, we should be able to explain it to a child. How would you explain "the Holy Spirit dwells within you" to a child? Again, I think "the Holy Spirit is really in our lives" is a good start. A child could understand that. But is there anything more you could say?

I am beginning to notice something Pnat.

And if it is true, then you have not yet entered into the full gift of the Holy Spirit.

You have said:

What do you think it means when a spiritual being comes into us? So far I've seen you say that for the Holy Spirit to be in us means that "He is really in our lives."

I am inferring from this that you think it means that He is "with us".

Now notice the original text.

Jesus made two comparisons.

He said the Holy Spirit is "with us" and WILL be "in us".

So if you are presenting the position of "with us", you are still in a pre-pentecost experience.

Please clarify if my inferring is correct or incorrect. :-)

I don't know what you mean by the Holy Spirit is "in" us. I've asked this over and over again and not gotten an answer. You just repeat it, but don't explain it.

I've asked John how he would explain the concept to a child, but he declined. I'll ask you the same question, if you wish to answer it.

I have the Holy Spirit within me but I cannot see Him. It is not so much an emotional or euphoric experience, but it i a change in attitude, a peace that passes all understanding. We can quench the Spirit by sin and by neglect of spiritual matters. Someone, Mark I think, seemed to suggest the Holy Spirit is new covenant only, but that would be incorrect.

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Was the prayer of David as he repented from his sins.

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

[pnattmbtc]

Here's a statement which helps to understand the concept of the Holy Spirit dwelling within:

Quote:

The Comforter is called "the Spirit of truth." His work is to define and maintain the truth. He first dwells in the heart as the Spirit of truth, and thus He becomes the Comforter.

There is comfort and peace in the truth, but no real peace or comfort can be found in falsehood. It is through false theories and traditions that Satan gains his power over the mind. By directing men to false standards, he misshapes the character. Through the Scriptures the Holy Spirit speaks to the mind, and impresses truth upon the heart. Thus He exposes error, and expels it from the soul. It is by the Spirit of truth, working through the word of God, that Christ subdues His chosen people to Himself. (DA 671)

First, let's remember that the only means of communication between God and man is the mind. So the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is dealing with His influence upon the mind.

In this quote we see that "it is through false theories and traditions that Satan gains his power over the mind." Conversely is it by means of the truth that the Holy Spirit gains His influence over the mind.

"Through the Scriptures the Holy Spirit speaks to the mind, and impresses truth upon the heart. Thus He exposes error, and expels it from the soul." This is speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, made clear by her statement earlier that "He first dwells in the heart as the Spirit of truth, and thus He becomes the Comforter. There is comfort and peace in the truth, but no real peace or comfort can be found in falsehood."

Here's another statement which deals with the concept:

Quote:

When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness.(COL 312)

She could just as well have said, "When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit."

Here's another text, from Scripture, dealing with the same concept.

Quote:

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (Romans 5:1-5)

This speaks of how the love of God is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Spirit. Of course, this isn't dealing with our literal heart, but with our minds. The heart represents the inner part of a man, where he does his deepest thinking, the seat of his will, emotions, and motivations. The idea is that when we are converted, our heart and will becomes united with Christ's. We sense His approval, and the unity between Him and us. This is what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is; His communication with our minds regarding the things of God.

[Twilight]

Regarding what it means to say that "the Holy Spirit dwells in me," here is the key principle:

Quote:

The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life. Whatever disturbs the circulation of the electric currents in the nervous system lessens the strength of the vital powers, and the result is a deadening of the sensibilities of the mind. (Child Guidance 446)

I'll write in more detail as I have time later one, but the key principle is that heaven communicates with us through the mind, and only through the mind. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit has to do with the mind.

Interesting...

So you have founded the whole concept of the Holy Spirit dwelling within on this one statement from SOP?

Have you considered what the Bible says first...?

-------------------

We also have to consider the very nerves you mention also exist in the heart (we know this scientifically).

So this is the means of "communing" of the Holy Spirit you are dealing with and it does not deal with where the Holy Spirit "is".

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

A demon takes over your conscience and your soul. It makes you do things and say things you wouldn't think, do, or say otherwise.

This is a good explanation. How does it make you do thing and say things? Through it's influence on the mind. To say that a demon is "in" someone means that the demon has possession of the person's mind.

Similarly we may say that a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit when a person's will is under the control of the Holy Spirit. Of course, there's a vast difference between demon possession, and being under the control of the Holy Spirit doing, as the Holy Spirit never forces the will.

Originally Posted By: Richard

Ok, you think with your mind, or heart.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

That is where your decisions come from. So it makes sense that the HS abides there if you let him. He will actually guide your thinking. This transforms a person. I need the Holy Spirit to guide my thinking, and I thank God for it. I don't think like I used to. I think this is called conversion. Praise the LORD!

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth....

Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus

Yes, this is what it means. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is speaking of His influence upon the mind. Of course, the "heart" is simply referencing the mind as well.

Where in the scripture do you find the idea that "heart" means "mind"?

I have heard so many adventists state this, but have never been given one scripture reference to support this.

Heart means heart my friend.

Heart and mind are two distinct words in the Greek and Hebrew.

God promises to give you a "new heart" and renew your mind.

But He also promises to write His Law on our "hearts AND minds".

So we have a clear distinction here in scripture.

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But again, how the Spirit communicates with us, does not negate the idea that the Holy Spirit dwells within...

Mark