If You Were a Jesuit....

[Guest]

I'll take Steve's cut and paste over your deepest thoughts anyday.

[teresaq]

im sorry for that very heartless comment, coaspen. it was not based on truth and reality but was just a heartless zinger as in "i wannna hurt you because i disagree with you most of the time".

[teresaq]

This church is significant because of it's doctrinal beliefs, especially on the sabbath. The so called mother church knows where her real oppostion is located.

i think you might be mistaken about that.

[abelisle]

Looks like I'm the only one here who has had significant interaction with real Jesuits. The bottom line is that the ones I know are genuinely very humble, kind, spiritual and very smart. But let me start from the beginning.

In 1984 I applied for and received an NEH (National Endowment for the Humanities) Fellowship to study Medieval Scholastic Philosophy at Fordham University (the Rose Hill campus in the Bronx, NYC). It just so happens to be the largest Jesuit community in the northeastern US. My professor was a Jesuit: Ewert Cousins. Our primary focus was on Augustine, Bonaventure and Meister Eckhart.

When I first showed up at a gathering room on campus with my fellow "Fellows", I was seated next to an older gentleman dressed in non-descript clothing and who was very quiet and gave off an unremarkable persona. It turned out that he was our professor. What happened next is quite funny and interesting.

My wife and I were invited to a new Fellows dinner at Loyola Hall where the Jesuits resided. I must say they do have a very elaborate lifestyle when it comes to their dining. Their living quarters on the other hand are quite bare. During the course of our sumptuous dinner, the abbot asked us what the topics would be for our papers. When I told him that I was planning to write about the early visionary writings of E.G. White, the table got very quiet. No one spoke and with a gleeful look on his face, he said, "Ellen Gould White!, please make sure I get a copy of your paper on my desk."

I learned over the next 6 weeks that they know more about us than most Adventists do. This talk I hear about Jesuit infiltration is a joke. They don't need to infiltrate us. We manage quite well to do our own damage, thank you.

At no time was there any disrespect, derision, insults or aspersions cast upon my beliefs. I made good friends with my professor and even served as a guest lecturer in the department of Classical Studies lecturing on modern physics and the mystical tradition. He has invited me to his house and asked me to serve on his selection committee for future fellowship seminars. At one time he served at the UN setting up a spiritual summit conference

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:mlH6sZ1_S7sJ:www.cathnewsusa.com/uploads/images/2009/06/Ewert.Cousins.Obituary.doc+ewert+cousins&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

He died last year. He was a good man. I will miss him. Will there be Jesuits in heaven? I don't know but if there are, I'm sure he'll be there.

Alex

[Woody]

I'll take Steve's cut and paste over your deepest thoughts anyday.

This is down right RUDE. Or perhaps I should use a stronger word.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I'll take Steve's cut and paste over your deepest thoughts anyday.

This is down right RUDE. Or perhaps I should use a stronger word.

Use any word you want. How was that any ruder than his sarcastic remark about cut and paste? Which by the way, is about the only kind of remark I ever see from him. If he doesn't have something cutting, snide, or sarcastic to say, then he usually doesn't say anything.

[Woody]

Being rude to someone just because one thinks THEY are rude ... doesn't help the atmosphere here does it?

[Woody]

Richard. One technique that I use to be rude ... is to parrot back the exact words back at someone. For instance ... if someone tells me I am not going to be saved - I parrot it back to them and tell them ... THEY are not going to be saved.

What this does is to show how childish the first statement was. Sure it might put you at risk for looking childish yourself ... but I think it's worth the risk.

Just a few Redwood gems for today. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'll take Steve's cut and paste over your deepest thoughts anyday.

Richard, that WAS rude, IMO.

[Woody]

Hi Pam - ntmomitf/iwiwd

Just wanted to say that I am glad you are able to put aside the ntmomitf/iwiwd even though that is how you feel. We ALL benefit from you being here. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Looks like I'm the only one here who has had significant interaction with real Jesuits

No, you're not. I went to school at Seattle University for a year. It's a Jesuit university. All my professors were Jesuits. And they were all very nice and kind-hearted.

Like I've said, they have better things to do than infiltrate the SDA church.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Just wanted to say that I am glad you are able to put aside the ntmomitf/iwiwd even though that is how you feel. We ALL benefit from you being here.

thanks, Redwood

[aldona]

Quote:

Looks like I'm the only one here who has had significant interaction with real Jesuits.

With all due respect, no, you're not - see my post a few pages back, and see Pam's post above.

And you will notice that all of us who have actually met and interacted with real live Jesuits are firm in our belief that the whole SDA-infiltration conspiracy is wrong.

aldona

[Guest]

Just because they are nice people has no bearing whatsoever on the intentions and actions of the organization. If you're waiting to spot a mean one, before you believe they could possibly have any ill intentions or ulterior motives, then you will be waiting a long time.

That's like saying all witches have to have a hooked nose, and warts on their face. Come on!

So far the only case that has been made that they are not what history says they are, is that they are such nice people.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That's like saying all witches have to have a hooked nose, and warts on their face. Come on!

Originally Posted By: Richard

So far the only case that has been made that they are not what history says they are, is that they are such nice people.

No, so far the only case that has been made {is] that they are not NOW what history says they WERE. There's a difference.

[Guest]

No, so far the only case that has been made {is] that they are not NOW what history says they WERE.

Because they are such nice people.

I can see where that takes it out of the realm of possibility. What was I thinking?

[abelisle]

Just because they are nice people has no bearing whatsoever on the intentions and actions of the organization. If you're waiting to spot a mean one, before you believe they could possibly have any ill intentions or ulterior motives, then you will be waiting a long time.

That's like saying all witches have to have a hooked nose, and warts on their face. Come on!

So far the only case that has been made that they are not what history says they are, is that they are such nice people.

As to the intentions and actions of the organization, I, nor anyone, even Jesuits (unless they are at the highest levels of the order) can answer. I specifically addressed this issue and two items were mentioned to me: 1)that there would be a concentrated effort to work in China and 2) that a "Aquarian" program/plan/ideology was going into effect for a world-wide ecumenical movement.

When I responded that Jews, Adventists and Muslims would be a stumbling block to their plans, I was told in a very calm voice that they weren't worried and that these issues would be worked out.

As to how this affects their "niceness" you will have to be the judge of that.

Alex

[Tom Wetmore]

So what you are saying, Richard, is the test of the Spirit, "By their fruits you shall know them" has no relevence?

[Guest]

So what you are saying, Richard, is the test of the Spirit, "By their fruits you shall know them" has no relevence?

Try not to put words in my mouth Tom, if you can help it. Their fruits are in the history books, and in Ellen Whites writings.

If someone is able to be nice to you in a certain situation, do you go away thinking that you now know enough about them to say you have tested their fruits?

The pen of inspiration tells us about these people, along with the history books. She (EGW) says they do not change, although they want the world to think they have. I guess I am just dumb enough to believe the prophet, while everybody else is saying:

"But look at them, they're nice people now. They do good works. There is no way they could ever do those things again. They even said so, with a calm gentle voice."

Come on Tom, I know you can think deeper than that.

Lets say a habitual rapist pulls ten years in prison, and gets out early, on a technicality. What are his fruits? the fact that he raped 18 women, or the smile that he has on his face right now?

Don't confuse outward appearances with fruit.

[Woody]

Quote:

As to how this affects their "niceness" you will have to be the judge of that.

And I'm sure he will.

[Stan]

Looks like I'm the only one here who has had significant interaction with real Jesuits. The bottom line is that the ones I know are genuinely very humble, kind, spiritual and very smart. But let me start from the beginning.

In 1984 I applied for and received an NEH (National Endowment for the Humanities) Fellowship to study Medieval Scholastic Philosophy at Fordham University (the Rose Hill campus in the Bronx, NYC). It just so happens to be the largest Jesuit community in the northeastern US. My professor was a Jesuit: Ewert Cousins. Our primary focus was on Augustine, Bonaventure and Meister Eckhart.

When I first showed up at a gathering room on campus with my fellow "Fellows", I was seated next to an older gentleman dressed in non-descript clothing and who was very quiet and gave off an unremarkable persona. It turned out that he was our professor. What happened next is quite funny and interesting.

My wife and I were invited to a new Fellows dinner at Loyola Hall where the Jesuits resided. I must say they do have a very elaborate lifestyle when it comes to their dining. Their living quarters on the other hand are quite bare. During the course of our sumptuous dinner, the abbot asked us what the topics would be for our papers. When I told him that I was planning to write about the early visionary writings of E.G. White, the table got very quiet. No one spoke and with a gleeful look on his face, he said, "Ellen Gould White!, please make sure I get a copy of your paper on my desk."

I learned over the next 6 weeks that they know more about us than most Adventists do. This talk I hear about Jesuit infiltration is a joke. They don't need to infiltrate us. We manage quite well to do our own damage, thank you.

At no time was there any disrespect, derision, insults or aspersions cast upon my beliefs. I made good friends with my professor and even served as a guest lecturer in the department of Classical Studies lecturing on modern physics and the mystical tradition. He has invited me to his house and asked me to serve on his selection committee for future fellowship seminars. At one time he served at the UN setting up a spiritual summit conference

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:mlH6sZ1_S7sJ:www.cathnewsusa.com/uploads/images/2009/06/Ewert.Cousins.Obituary.doc+ewert+cousins&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

He died last year. He was a good man. I will miss him. Will there be Jesuits in heaven? I don't know but if there are, I'm sure he'll be there.

Alex

Alex

Appreciate this post a lot.

[phkrause]

Yes Stan I agree.

pk

[Kountzer]

As to the intentions and actions of the organization, I, nor anyone, even Jesuits (unless they are at the highest levels of the order) can answer.

Alex

That is a key sentence, and key phrase. From what I've read a person who is a "jesuit" would have to spend 40 years or so proving themselves, then take some sort of rigorous oath before they are trusted into the highest levels of ther organization. It is at the highest levels where all stuff starts happening.

DB

[Guest]

I'm glad I could make you smile brother. It's easier with some, than it is with others.

[karl]

The Jesuits were founded "to strive especially for the defense and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine.".... Finally, they aimed to stop Protestantism from spreading and to preserve communion with Rome and the successor of Peter. The zeal of the Jesuits overcame the drift toward Protestantism in Poland-Lithuania and southern Germany.

Ignatius Loyola wrote the Jesuit Constitutions, adopted in 1554, which created a tightly centralized organization and stressed total abnegation and obedience to the Pope and their religious superiors (perinde ac cadaver, "[well-disciplined] like a corpse" as Ignatius put it).

By the time of Ignatius' death in 1556, the Jesuits were already operating a network of 74 colleges on three continents. A precursor to liberal education, the Jesuit plan of studies incorporated the Classical teachings of Renaissance humanism.

The Jesuit schools played an important part in winning back to Catholicism a number of European countries which had for a time been predominantly Protestant, notably Poland and Lithuania.

Jesuit priests often acted as confessors to Kings during the Early Modern Period. They were an important force in the Counter-Reformation.

The Jesuits today form the largest religious order of priests and brothers in the Catholic Church, with 19,216 serving in 112 nations on six continents, the largest number being in India followed by those in the United States.

Malachi Martin was a Jesuit priest and has lifted the cover on some of their plans.

In the final years before his death, Martin was working on a book with the working title Primacy: How the Institutional Roman Catholic Church became a Creature of the New World Order. This book which promised to be his most controversial and detailed work ever was never completed.