If You Were a Jesuit....

[Woody]

Well ... I would invite ALL Jesuits to my church. I fear not what they might do. But I have confidence with what God could do for them if they come to church.

Bring it on ...

[Guest]

The Jesuits were formed to specifically stop, counteract, the protestant reformation. That was their goal at the beginning, and it is their goal now. That's not paranoia, that is basic Western history. Any competent protestant historian will tell you the same.

That's right, and not only that, but they have been very successful with the SDA church.

http://wbns.us/news/Mid-November.2009.pdf

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The Jesuits were formed to specifically stop, counteract, the protestant reformation. That was their goal at the beginning, and it is their goal now. That's not paranoia, that is basic Western history. Any competent protestant historian will tell you the same.

Is that why the Jesuits started missions out in California and other western States? To convert all those Protestant Native Americans?

[SivartM]

That newsletter was... creepy.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, I think Jan Marcussen has defintely gone around the bend.

[aldona]

I looked through that newsletter and a couple of thoughts went through my mind...

"I think someone needs to be on some kind of medication - not sure if it's me or the newsletter's author."

and

"If a random member of the public saw this as their first introduction to the SDA religion, they would come to the conclusion that we are all stark, raving, barking mad."

aldona

[Guest]

Yes, I think Jan Marcussen has defintely gone around the bend.

Could be.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

Yes, I think Jan Marcussen has defintely gone around the bend.

Could be.

Yes. I think he is the author of one of those books that I burn whenever I come by them ... I think it is called The National Sunday Law or something to that effect.

[Guest]

Yes. I think he is the author of one of those books that I burn whenever I come by them ... I think it is called The National Sunday Law or something to that effect.

So you think that spreading the third angels message, which is the only thing in that book, and the only reason this church exists, is a bad thing?

Why am I not surprised?

[Woody]

Why am I not surprised by your reaction.

[Guest]

You shouldn't be.

[Stan]

People are giving the Jesuits too much power. We have equally bright folks in Adventism.

Let them come to our Churches, esp to the Churches that does something significant and are more than a "jesus loves you' and that is all that a person needs.

We have been way more successful giving material to members of the Church of Rome, and have them becoming Adventist than the other way around.

They are NOT super humans, BUT are intellectuals. They do not pray every morning to bring darkness upon all.

[phkrause]

Wasn't it also when they started to what to deny that they were the Anti-Christ? And they split the 70 week period in Daniel to be 69 and than the last week to some time in the future?

pk

[Kountzer]

I've read National Sunday Law 2 or 3 times. It is basically a condensed version of the sop book The Great Controversy. It is also consistent with what I've heard taught in several revelation seminars at local churches, and with what I've seen and heard on 3ABN, LLBN and the Hope Channel. It is basically the three angel's messages, as has been stated.

[Kountzer]

People are giving the Jesuits too much power. We have equally bright folks in Adventism.

Let them come to our Churches, esp to the Churches that does something significant and are more than a "jesus loves you' and that is all that a person needs.

We have been way more successful giving material to members of the Church of Rome, and have them becoming Adventist than the other way around.

They are NOT super humans, BUT are intellectuals. They do not pray every morning to bring darkness upon all.

My take on the whole issue is this: I do not personally know of jesuit infiltration into this church. Most if not all of my personal contact with jesuits, usually students, or parents of high school students, has been favorable. Still, there is a lot of historical evidence suggesting that this organizaiton, at its highest levels, has some sort of NWO ulterior plan. There are a lot of sane, intelligent and knowledgable non adventists that have reached that conclusion. There are a lot of present and former jesuits, (i.e. Malachi Martin, Alberto Rivera, to name two) who have said the same.

If it is true that said organization has infiltrated and committed all sorts of deeds in churches and governments around the world, then it is only natural to assume they probably have tampered with this church also. Again, I have no proof of this, nor am I actively trying to find any. I just would not be overly surprised if it came to light.

Whatever the truth is, God is in control, and that is why I don't worry about it.

[karl]

Still, there is a lot of historical evidence suggesting that this organizaiton, at its highest levels, has some sort of NWO ulterior plan. There are a lot of sane, intelligent and knowledgable non adventists that have reached that conclusion. There are a lot of present and former jesuits, (i.e. Malachi Martin, Alberto Rivera, to name two) who have said the same.

The RC church is openly in favor of globalism. And why wouldn't it be? It is the natural shoe-in to reap the power benefits of a NWO. It is the only church with a seat at the UN.

The pope was openly disappointed that more globalism didn't come out of Copenhagen. ("Pope Benedict XVI criticises the failure by world leaders to agree to a new climate change treaty in Copenhagen last month."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8452447.stm)

[Kountzer]

Exactly. And if you read catholic/jesuit statements, books, etc., they will tell you of their intent to control the world, and why. That is what seals the deal for me.

[Kevin H]

I like the last couple of posts on where the world is going ecomomically. What we need to remember is the beast in Rev. 13 has 7 heads, and based on Daniel 2, 7, and 8 we find them to be Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome, The Holy Roman Empire (including Papal Supreamicy), the deadly would (this is the head with the 10 horns the crowns of the horn where the beast is and is not and is yet to come, a period of no great world empires but several independent nations) then the deadly wound healing. It heals to a 7th head, not a return to the 5th head. Revelation 18 especially, but other parts to talk about the 7th head, and it is all economic cooperation. The focus goes from the great political-religious powers of the past to the merchants of the earth.

Yes, the papacy has had a tendency to join with the wrong side in the great issues of history and will probably do it again, but if we are looking for the deadly wound to be a return to head 5 instead of moving on to head 7 we might miss the boat.

[karl]

Yes, the papacy has had a tendency to join with the wrong side in the great issues of history and will probably do it again, but if we are looking for the deadly wound to be a return to head 5 instead of moving on to head 7 we might miss the boat.

Yes, it is the "Image To The Beast" rather than the "Beast" itself. And the lamb-like beast encourages the nations of the earth to "make" it.

I think it will be an empowered UN or some very similar supranational organization.

[Kevin H]

Shows you are thinking Karl, good! The Lord will reveal it to us when needed. What we have to do is study what the issues were in the past so that we will recognize the analogy when it comes, but we must not be so steeped in tradition that we miss the analogy while waiting for a perfect fit. These are the two attacks of Satan, the lack of care in the Bible, or belittling the applications of the past saying they don't play a role, or the dogmatic clinging to tradition and expecting us to go back to the earlier situation. We are going to go to the 7th head, not back to the 5th head. Too many of us have turned the 5th head into the whole beast.

[JawgeFromJawja]

So what you are saying, Richard, is the test of the Spirit, "By their fruits you shall know them" has no relevence?

Earlier in the same sermon, Jesus had said "Judge not, that you be not judged."

The entire context of "by their fruits":

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Obviously, Christ's admonition "by their fruits ye shall know them" does not permit judgmental behavior. It is a test, but a test for false prophets. For those who read, but do not comprehend The Bible, the phrase gives permission to be judgmental of behavior in general, which is precisely what He forbade.

[Gerr]

Yes SivartM. I would outwardly agree with all the principles of conservatism. I would judge those who disagree with me. I would tell them where they are going if they don't shape up and obey.

Before you know it, Woody might be fingering me as a Jesuit!

[Gerr]

Quote:

I wasn't impressed.

Me neither

Well, Iam. I am impressed with his lectures on creation and evolution.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

This isn't a good topic for discussion, IMHO. It feeds off of people's fears of imaginary Jesuit infiltration of the SDA church. I really don't think the Jesuits are interested in infiltrating the church. They have better things to do with their time. Just ask Stan.

I'm a member of my local Amnesty International chapter. One time the guest speaker at one of our meetings was a Jesuit priest. He spoke about his (and his fellow priests') work helping current and former prisoners, refugees, and homeless street people. He seemed like a very kind, humble man.

If this is the sort of people who are alleged to be infiltrating the church, and the agenda that they are pushing - I say "bring it on", the church desperately needs them.

aldona

Well, here's their alleged oath:

The Jesuit Oath Exposed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated."

Professor Arthur Noble

[The following is the text of the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction as recorded in the Journals of the 62nd Congress, 3rd Session, of the United States Congressional Record (House Calendar No. 397, Report No. 1523, 15 February, 1913, pp. 3215-3216), from which it was subsequently torn out. The Oath is also quoted by Charles Didier in his book Subterranean Rome (New York, 1843), translated from the French original. Dr. Alberto Rivera, who escaped from the Jesuit Order in 1967, confirms that the induction ceremony and the text of the Jesuit Oath which he took were identical to what we have cited below. – A. N.]

When a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command, he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order, where there are only three others present, the principal or Superior standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow and white, which are the Papal colours, and the other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above a skull and crossbones, with the word INRI, and below them the words IUSTUM NECAR REGES IMPIUS. The meaning of which is: It is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.

Upon the floor is a red cross at which the postulant or candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart, the Superior still holding it by the hilt, and thus addresses the postulant:

(The Superior speaks:)

My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope. You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death. You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labours with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved". Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me:

(Text of the Oath:)

I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)

(Superior speaks:)

You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank. In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one crosses his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the centre of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the centre of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges; the other answers Impious. The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers:

From whither do you come? Answer: The Holy faith.

Whom do you serve? Answer: The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world.

Who commands you? Answer: The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.

Who received you? Answer: A venerable man in white hair.

How? Answer: With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order.

Did you take an oath? Answer: I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, nor sex, nor condition; to be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation or murmuring.

Will you do that? Answer: I will.

How do you travel? Answer: In the bark of Peter the fisherman.

Whither do you travel? Answer: To the four quarters of the globe.

For what purpose? Answer: To obey the orders of my General and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfil the conditions of my oaths.

Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.

[Note: The following books on (or particularly relevant to) the Jesuits are held by the EIPS Library:

Anon.: The Female Jesuit. London, 1851

Anon.: The Mystery of Jesuitism. London, 1658

Anon.: The Secret Instructions of the Jesuits. London, 1824

Anon.: The Secret Instructions of the Jesuits. London, 1824

Barrett, E.B.: The Jesuit Enigma. London, 1929

Barthel, M: The Jesuits. New York, 1984

Bert, M.P.: Gury's Doctrines of the Jesuits. London, 1947

Blakeney, R.P.: Alphonsus Liguori. London, 1852

Brodrick, J., S.J.: The Origin of the Jesuits. New York, 1960

Bungener, L.L.F.: The Jesuits in France or The Priest and the Huguenot. London, 1859

Coape, H.C.: In a Jesuit Net. London, no date

Dalton, E.: The Jesuits. London, 1843

De Courson, R.: Concerning Jesuits. London, 1902

Gallahue, J.: The Jesuit. New York, 1973

Goodier, A.: The Jesuits. London, 1929

Griesinger, T.: History of the Jesuits. London, 1903

Groves, H.C.: The Doctrines and Practices of the Jesuits. London, 1889

Hanna, S.: Jesuitism: or Catholic Action. Belfast, 1938

Hastings, M.: Jesuit Child. Newton Abbot, 1972

Hillerbrand, H.: The Reformation. A Narrative History related by Contemporary Observers and Participants. Ann Arbor, 1989

Lathbury, T.: The State of Popery and Jesuitism in England. London, 1838

Lehmann, L.H.: The Secret of Catholic Power. New York, no date

Liguori, A.M.: The Council of Trent. Dublin, 1846

MacPherson, H.: The Jesuits in History. London, 1914

Martin, M.: The Jesuits. New York, 1987

Nicolini, G.B.: History of the Jesuits. London, 1854

Paisley, I.R.K.: The Jesuits. Belfast, no date

Paris, E.: The Secret History of the Jesuits. London, 1975

Ridley, F.A.: The Jesuits: A Study in Counter-Revolution. London, 1938

Roberts, Archbishop, S.J.: Black Popes. London, 1954

Robertson, A.: The Roman Catholic Church in Italy. London, 1903

Seebohm, F.: The Epoch of the Protestant Reformation. London, 1877

Seymour, M.H.: Mornings among the Jesuits at Rome. London, 1850

Steinmetz, A.: History of the Jesuits. London, 1848 (3 Vols.)

Walsh, W.: The Jesuits in Great Britain. New York, 1903

Wild, J.: Canada and the Jesuits. Toronto, 1889

Wylie, J.A.: Jesuitism: Its Rise, Progress and Insidious Workings. London, no date

Ybarra, T.R. (translator): The Kaiser's Memoirs, by Wilhelm II. New York, 1922]

http://www.ianpaisley.org

Email: eips_info@yahoo.co.uk

[Guest]

That is very interesting. Thanks for posting it.