If You Were a Jesuit....

[Tom Wetmore]

You may also want to read these references:

Jesuit Oath Debunked

Jesuit Conspiracy Theories

Society of Jesus

[Guest]

But who's debunking who? I guess it depends on your perspective, and what you are inclined to believe.

[Gerr]

Yeah, I saw that article about the oath being debunked. But ff it is not true, why were the Jesuits banned from almost every country at one time?

[BobRyan]

The Pope declared the Jesuit order to be forever abolished due to the many complaints about the Jesuits from other Catholic orders. A number of prior Popes had tried to quell them - but eventually it came to the point of a Papal decree abolishing the order "foever". According to the Pope - even the infamous inquisitors complained about the unchristian practices of the Jesuits.

But they managed to "come back" once the next pope was elected.

in Christ,

Bob

[Restin]

I learned about the Jesuits and their plans for the world (especially the last days) from reading the book, "The Enemy Unmasked", by Bill Hughes,an SDA pastor. You can also read his book "The Secret Terrorist", online by looking up that as a subject.

Moderator John, I hope it's okay to post this recommendation, let me know if not.

[CoAspen]

Never attempt to dissuade a person from preconceived "truths" !!!!

[Gerr]

Never attempt to dissuade a person from preconceived "truths" !!!!

Let's examine the history of the Jesuits and see who has preconceived notions, or whether these so-called preconceived notions are in fact historically accurate.

[Restin]

Back to Elders Anderson and Froom, I think the issue with them being jesuits in disguise was because of their TV interview back in the 60's that refuted the Trinity, the Sanctuary belief, and the validity of Sister White. This radically put the SDA church in a false light to the public.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Never attempt to dissuade a person from preconceived "truths" !!!!

Let's examine the history of the Jesuits and see who has preconceived notions, or whether these so-called preconceived notions are in fact historically accurate.

Good idea.

What did the Pope say about Jesuits when he forever abolished the order?

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

I give up Bob, what did he say?

[Restin]

Of course, the pope would denounce the jesuit order, for it to come back up in a new form; just as cunning Nazis at first denounced any support of Hitler, so as to confuscate things for any superficial investigation.

[Tom Wetmore]

...What did the Pope say about Jesuits when he forever abolished the order?

So Bob, you accept the Pope as a source of truth?

[BobRyan]

I accept the Pope as someone more biased in favor of Jesuits than you or I or any non-Catholic you can name.

Was that not apparent?

When someone who has every incentive to promote Jesuits - points to their errors and abolishes them - then my case for objectivity has just gone up by several orders of magnitude.

Is there a match for this on your part?

in Christ,

Bob

[Tom Wetmore]

So you consider the Pope that abolished them to have been objective? That his motives were pure?

Quote:

Ignatius and the early Jesuits did recognize, though, that the hierarchical Church was in dire need of reform. Some of their greatest struggles were against corruption, venality, and spiritual lassitude within the Roman Catholic Church. Ignatius's insistence on an extremely high level of academic preparation for ministry, for instance, was a deliberate response to the relatively poor education of much of the clergy of his time. The Jesuit vow against "ambitioning prelacies" was a deliberate effort to prevent greed for money or power invading Jesuit circles.

As a result, in spite of their loyalty, Ignatius and his successors often tangled with the pope and the Roman Curia. - Wikipedia

Quote:

Though he had to face strong pressure on the part of the ambassadors of the Bourbon courts Clement XIII always refused to yield to their demands to have the Society of Jesus suppressed. His successor Clement XIV tried to placate the enemies of the Jesuits by treating them harshly: he refused to meet the Superior General, Lorenzo Ricci, ordered them not to receive novices, etc.

The pressure kept building up to the point that Catholic countries were threatening to break away from the Church. Clement XIV ultimately yielded "in the name of peace of the Church and to avoid a secession in Europe" and suppressed the Society of Jesus by the brief Dominus ac Redemptor of the 21 July 1773. However in non-Catholic nations, particularly in Prussia and Russia, where papal authority was not recognized, the order was ignored. It was a result of a series of political moves rather than a theological controversy. - Wikipedia

[BobRyan]

I give up Bob, what did he say?

[Tom Wetmore]

So, how did that "PERMANENTLY suppressing" thing work itself out?

In addition to what I previously posted:

Quote:

As the Napoleonic Wars were approaching their end in 1814, the old political order of Europe was to a considerable extent restored at the Congress of Vienna after years of fighting and revolution, during which the Church had been persecuted as an agent of the old order and abused under the rule of Napoleon. With the political climate of Europe changed, more stable and the powerful monarchs who had called for the suppression of the Society no longer in power, Pope Pius VII issued an order restoring the Society of Jesus in the Catholic countries of Europe. For its part, the Society of Jesus made the decision at the first General Congregation held after the restoration to keep the organization of the Society the way that it had been before the suppression was ordered in 1773.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_the_Society_of_Jesus

[Restin]

A few posts ago, someone asked who wrote "The Secret Terrorists". It was Bill Hughes, a historian and SDA pastor who graduated from Andrews University. The book has been distributed, mainly without charge, to about 4,000,000 individuals worldwide. Is also available at Amazon.

Bill Hughes' research fills in the gap where Great Controversy left off, up to the present time of the plans of the Vatican to set up its world government.

These are not so-called "conspiracy theories" but historical facts. As Adventists, we accept that the pope is to become the dominant world authority. Sister White says that prophecy should be a main study, and it's hard to see how people can say the church has more important matters to face.

The "Great Controversy" book is the history of that "conspiracy" by Satan to ruin God's plans for the Second Coming. I deeply hope that people who don't believe conspiracy is going on will read Great Controversy again,because that is what the book is about. Since the year that E.G.White wrote the last page, Satan has continued his plans, his conspiring, to steer political events for his own ends. He has also seen to it that the phrase "conspiracy theory" has a sort of magical effect on people to make them feel "wised up" and thereby never really get wised up on what's going on in modern history and politics.

If you believe Jesus is coming again soon, perhaps you can also see that Satan would not just sit around twittering his thumbs, waiting for the heavy foot to fall.

Anyone interested in reading "The Secret Terrorists" can have a book free of charge by emailing Bill Hughes directly at n3232@cs.com, or go read it on line at www.pacinst.com.

[CoAspen]

Whether there be Jesuits, papists or what ever among us, it can not be worse or any more destructive than our own deceitful hearts.

[Restin]

I think I understand what you're getting at CoAspen. It's that the most important concern is to be right with God in the final world events. Sister White says that, too, when she describes how our relationship with God is what counts first. It's better to know God and not know prophecy, than to know every detail of prophecy but fail to get right with God.I agree with that.

Also, people are different in the way they need to face trouble. Some people are too stressed by a lot of news on current world events and prefer to leave the worrying up to God. That's okay. But some of us feel better to see and know everything. It's different styles we have in facing life.

But the main thing is to give our hearts to the Lord and have His Holy Spirit within, getting us ready for whatever is coming.That is what will see us through.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

And how many Jesuit priests have you known, Karl?

Only one, and his passion was treating drug and alcohol addiction.

I wasn't speaking to any fact about Jesuit infiltration. I was just trying to imagine a reason why they might want to infiltrate? We pose no threat whatsoever to the Catholic Church at this point in time.

The SDA organization (new movement) poses no threat to them anymore. That's a fact.

sky

[skyblue888]

There's plenty of it if you want to see it. This is nothing new, but it tends to just get poo pooed around here, as if it were just unthinkable.

Questioning Jesuit infiltration within the SDA organization is a sign of spiritual blindness.

Some are even admitting having received a Jesuit education.

sky

[skyblue888]

I think I understand what you're getting at CoAspen. It's that the most important concern is to be right with God in the final world events. Sister White says that, too, when she describes how our relationship with God is what counts first. It's better to know God and not know prophecy, than to know every detail of prophecy but fail to get right with God.I agree with that.

Also, people are different in the way they need to face trouble. Some people are too stressed by a lot of news on current world events and prefer to leave the worrying up to God. That's okay. But some of us feel better to see and know everything. It's different styles we have in facing life.

But the main thing is to give our hearts to the Lord and have His Holy Spirit within, getting us ready for whatever is coming.That is what will see us through.

I agree that what we need to worry most about is whether we are one with Christ or not.

"The storm is coming, relentless in its fury. Are you prepared to meet it? Are you one with Christ as He is one with the Father?" 4 RH 242. "The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." D.A.466.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

No, so far the only case that has been made {is] that they are not NOW what history says they WERE.

Because they are such nice people.

I can see where that takes it out of the realm of possibility. What was I thinking?

Yeahh what were you thinking Richard?

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: abelisle

I'm curious, does anyone have definitive evidence of any Jesuits impersonating an Adventist?

Alex

Good Question Alex. But I am confident that you will not get a response for this one. They just prefer to go on with the conspiracy theories and gossip. Being blind does not matter to them. Let them believe in the boogie man if they want.

Judging from your posts, you could be one of them!

sky

[skyblue888]

I like the last couple of posts on where the world is going ecomomically. What we need to remember is the beast in Rev. 13 has 7 heads, and based on Daniel 2, 7, and 8 we find them to be Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome, The Holy Roman Empire (including Papal Supreamicy), the deadly would (this is the head with the 10 horns the crowns of the horn where the beast is and is not and is yet to come, a period of no great world empires but several independent nations) then the deadly wound healing. It heals to a 7th head, not a return to the 5th head. Revelation 18 especially, but other parts to talk about the 7th head, and it is all economic cooperation. The focus goes from the great political-religious powers of the past to the merchants of the earth.

Yes, the papacy has had a tendency to join with the wrong side in the great issues of history and will probably do it again, but if we are looking for the deadly wound to be a return to head 5 instead of moving on to head 7 we might miss the boat.

The fifth head is Papal Rome which fell in 1798; the sixth head is Atheistic France after 1798; the seventh head (yet to come) is Apostate Protestantism in the US (union of church and state enforcing Sunday; image of the papacy) and the eighth is Papal Rome which is of the seven, the beast that was before 1798, is not after 1798, and yet is again.

sky