Elmer Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think we have to be very careful, and understand the way the devil works with our minds... We are all talking about owning a gun and thinking the we are mature enough to handle a gun or any kind of weapon... Many smart people (not IDIOTS), that owned a gun have made stupid decisions in a dark moment of his life... This has nothing to do with IDIOTS or SMART people... This issue has to do more with the great controversy war that is taking place... most of our battles are inside us... we are born selfish and the only think that we like to do is to look excuses to satisfy our selfish desires. The devil has been very smart to make us rationalized many things and this is one of them... We call that protection... We used parts of the Bible to justify our actions... we are always looking at the passages that we think prove our point. We talk about Moses, David, The Israelites... we have to recreate the environment of all those situations to understand what was happening... It was never God's plan for Israel to go and attack their enemies(Exodus 23:20-33). It was the stiffness of their heart that God allowed their methods... If Israel followed God instructions, they didn't nbeed to become like the heathen nations, but we like to look like them... we have to protect ourselves. David wanted to build the temple to the Lord, what did God said?, No, he can not build me a temple, he shed too much blood. If we want to look examples in the Bible, why don't we go to the life of Jesus. How did he react when people came to arrest him? what did he say to peter after he cut the ear of one of their enemies. If we want to follow the Bible let's look at Jesus the cleares representation of God (Heb 1:1-3) We have to understand how the devil deceives in the false sense of security that we are not going to do anything foolish. It's better to avoid the temptation when our tempter are not controlled... God Bless you all Elmer latorre Gerr and DreamWeaver 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think we have to be very careful, and understand the way the devil works with our minds... We are all talking about owning a gun and thinking the we are mature enough to handle a gun or any kind of weapon... Many smart people (not IDIOTS), that owned a gun have made stupid decisions in a dark moment of his life... This has nothing to do with IDIOTS or SMART people... This issue has to do more with the great controversy war that is taking place... most of our battles are inside us... we are born selfish and the only think that we like to do is to look excuses to satisfy our selfish desires. The devil has been very smart to make us rationalized many things and this is one of them... We call that protection... We used parts of the Bible to justify our actions... we are always looking at the passages that we think prove our point. We talk about Moses, David, The Israelites... we have to recreate the environment of all those situations to understand what was happening... It was never God's plan for Israel to go and attack their enemies(Exodus 23:20-33). It was the stiffness of their heart that God allowed their methods... If Israel followed God instructions, they didn't nbeed to become like the heathen nations, but we like to look like them... we have to protect ourselves. David wanted to build the temple to the Lord, what did God said?, No, he can not build me a temple, he shed too much blood. If we want to look examples in the Bible, why don't we go to the life of Jesus. How did he react when people came to arrest him? what did he say to peter after he cut the ear of one of their enemies. If we want to follow the Bible let's look at Jesus the cleares representation of God (Heb 1:1-3) We have to understand how the devil deceives in the false sense of security that we are not going to do anything foolish. It's better to avoid the temptation when our tempter are not controlled... You take a lot for granted in your statement. If you are implying anyone is talking using a gun when it comes to defending your religious beliefs,no one has said that. As for this..Many smart people (not IDIOTS), that owned a gun have made stupid decisions in a dark moment of his life... no one is talking about running around the countryside with a gun. If I or my family were threatened and to possibly lose our lives by someone just because they could,I would use whatever may be available. I don't think we are called on to forfeit our lives because there are those that will take it. If you are opposed to the use of force for self defense than I am sure you would never call the police if you were threatened and had the opportunity. They have a nasty habit of coming with guns and there is always a pretty good chance they would shoot and kill on your behalf. If it is wrong for you,it is wrong for you to depend on those that may end up doing just that. You have no right to call on a man or woman with a gun Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I got several dang guns. What the problem with that..? oG Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I got several dang guns. What the problem with that..? oG I don't have a problem with it.Unless you are running around with them getting ready for a shootout at the OK Corral.Or unless they are pointed at me ) Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 What can I say,it is in the genes. My grandmother in 1915 in Montana.That is not a toy,it was the way she left the ranch to ride the range every day. She was very proficient. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Grandma's lookin good (in a frontierswoman sort of way..). I still remember my momma shooting at a pack of wild dogs with Uncle Wayne's 12 gauge. It was inspiring. In 1987 I got 37 groundhogs (had a competition with Dirty Dan going on... Now I'm lucky if I gets one per year. g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Your Grandma was COOL Bonnie. She looks like a happy and well adjusted woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 What can I say,it is in the genes. My grandmother in 1915 in Montana.That is not a toy,it was the way she left the ranch to ride the range every day. She was very proficient. LOL Loren Green and Bonanza have nothing on your grandma. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Your Grandma was COOL Bonnie. She looks like a happy and well adjusted woman. I would not have wanted to tangle with her.Can't imagine the life. Put my mother as a baby in the saddle with her and my mother's older brother on a horse and tied a rope between the two when on the range. They didn't know what a babysitter was. It was still pretty wild out there and there were some rough customers that she would come across. By all accounts of those that knew her she was a crack shot and would definitely have used her gun Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie What can I say,it is in the genes. My grandmother in 1915 in Montana.That is not a toy,it was the way she left the ranch to ride the range every day. She was very proficient. LOL Loren Green and Bonanza have nothing on your grandma. pk The Pondarosa was a lot prettier. This is Carlisle,MT. You can climb the tallest trees with a step ladder and cut the grass with a scissors. It is an area that looks like God forgot he put it there Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 The Pondarosa was a lot prettier. This is Carlisle,MT. You can climb the tallest trees with a step ladder and cut the grass with a scissors. It is an area that looks like God forgot he put it there Ya but you still have to admit its pretty cool. Besides the rest of us wouldn't know the difference. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 In 1987 I got 37 groundhogs Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Share Posted January 23, 2010 ... If we want to look examples in the Bible, why don't we go to the life of Jesus. How did he react when people came to arrest him? what did he say to peter after he cut the ear of one of their enemies. If we want to follow the Bible let's look at Jesus the cleares representation of God (Heb 1:1-3) I think it's clear to Seventh-day Adventists that God doesn't want us to pick up weapons to defend ourselves when we're persecuted for being Christians. It seems to me there's a big difference between that situation and defending your wife and children against a common criminal who breaks into your home. If someone chooses not to own a gun, that's fine, but people on either side of the issue ought not to make it sound like those who disagree with them are not doing God's will. Neither the Bible nor the Spirit of prophecy prohibit gun ownership. In Mexico it's against the law for anyone but the police to carry weapons, and as a consequence, only the criminals and the police can protect themselves, and the law-abiding citizens are helpless to defend themselves against the gangs and the corrupt police, both of whom steal vehicles and murder innocent people in broad daylight. It's common in Mexico for the police not to even investigate murders. Neither the gangs nor the police are afraid of the people because they know the people are unarmed. I think history shows governments that prohibit their people from bearing arms are unafraid of their citizens and therefore have no respect for them. I believe it's a good thing that the United States' constitution guarantees its private citizens the right to own weapons. Our Founding Fathers were perceptive students of history and human psychology. DreamWeaver 1 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 22-250. I still got it, g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think it's clear to Seventh-day Adventists that God doesn't want us to pick up weapons to defend ourselves when we're persecuted for being Christians. It seems to me there's a big difference between that situation and defending your wife and children against a common criminal who breaks into your home. If someone chooses not to own a gun, that's fine, but people on either side of the issue ought not to make it sound like those who disagree with them are not doing God's will. Neither the Bible nor the Spirit of prophecy prohibit gun ownership. In Mexico it's against the law for anyone but the police to carry weapons, and as a consequence, only the criminals and the police can protect themselves, and the law-abiding citizens are helpless to defend themselves against the gangs and the corrupt police, both of whom steal vehicles and murder innocent people in broad daylight. It's common in Mexico for the police not to even investigate murders. Neither the gangs nor the police are afraid of the people because they know the people are unarmed. I think history shows governments that prohibit their people from bearing arms are unafraid of their citizens and therefore have no respect for them. I believe it's a good thing that the United States' constitution guarantees its private citizens the right to own weapons. Our Founding Fathers were perceptive students of history and human psychology. Very good post John. I agree pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I agree too. I mentioned this thread to my husband and son today over dinner, and what I said about the dog. He said he could borrow a gun from my brother that would guarantee I could kill the dog. It's an AK-47. I told him no thanks. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 I agree too. I mentioned this thread to my husband and son today over dinner, and what I said about the dog. He said he could borrow a gun from my brother that would guarantee I could kill the dog. It's an AK-47. I told him no thanks. I guessing that they realize that that weapon is illegal, if I'm not mistaken. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindoc Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 First of all - Liz, I'm so sorry about your dh's little brother! What a horrible memory to live with. I can SO understand your dh getting rid of his guns when you were pregnant. In families where kids are taught to clean and shoot the family weapons, there are fewer accidents. Liz, that's NO criticism of your dh's decision. That is a personal decision, and your dh deals with very personal pain. If I had the budget for such, I'd have a gun AND I'd have a conceal/carry permit. I don't want to have to trust 911 as my sole earthly protectors. Yes, I have angels and depend on them so much. It's a blessing I was listening to my angels this morning, that's a story for another thread. Having angels doesn't mean we don't learn self-defense. It doesn't mean that if I lived in a 'hood with bears close by that I wouldn't own a gun. I'm not a vegetarian now. I have been, but since I'm not I would love to hunt my own game. I've known folks who shot their own mean and just didn't eat store bought. They'll live longer. EGW said nothing against guns, but she was VERY critical of factory animal farms. I went to an event at the Rose Garden in Portland. Sponsored by KXL, a local radio station, it featuring the local host, Lars Larson, Bill O'Reilly and Tony Snow - I feel blessed to have heard Tony speak while he was alive on this earth and he's on my list of folks I want to meet in heaven. Lars said another personality in town stated that when he's in the house, there's more guns than there are at a hip hop concert. I felt SO safe, I can't even put that into words, hehe. Quote Pindoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindoc Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I love that grandma picture, I'd feel safe in her house, too! That dog can stay in my house anytime, too. In terms of always thinking about one's gun, especially if you pack, thinking about it all the time is just a part of life. You have to know where it is, how many rounds are in it, what your physical positioning is and what move you will make if you pull it. Most people who've never carried may not understand that. When you see law enforcement, you have to think about your gun. Might they see it? Hopefully not, it's just simpler that way - the cops have no way of knowing if you're a good guy/gal or a crook, so they often default to offensive mode. You can also, of course, NEVER LEAVE IT IN YOUR CAR. I love it when folks want people to just not take their guns in certain places, even though it's legal. You do realize that if they don't take their gun in, they have to leave it at home, which leaves them defenseless going to and from that place? Wow, Alex, you witnessed a horrid event. How awful. In some cases, such tragedies would occur, even with a gun around. At Virginia Tech, however, the massacre occurred one room at a time, one shot after another after another. If there had been armed students and teachers, he never would have gotten as far as he did. Remember the school shooting in the US, a couple students managed to disarm another kid before he killed any more. The media sort of left out how they'd stopped him: one of the students nearby got a gun from his car. That's how they stopped him! In Oregon, it's against the law for school districts to make laws contradicting state laws - including regs that allow guns on campuses. Unfortunately, the school districts and state universities tie up court space and time making such contradictory rules, anyway, and kicking students off campus b/c they're armed. So this has been a big issue in the news here. Those signs in post offices, saying no weapons allowed except per certain state regs - that means that anyone with an in-state conceal/carry permit can carry in the post office. Quote Pindoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I guessing that they realize that that weapon is illegal, if I'm not mistaken. pk I looked it up. They are not illegal. According to Wikipedia - Legal Status of the AK-47, the ban expired in 2004. I'm pretty sure my brother isn't the type to deal in illegal items. But he does like to collect things. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 I looked it up. They are not illegal. According to Wikipedia - Legal Status of the AK-47, the ban expired in 2004. I'm pretty sure my brother isn't the type to deal in illegal items. But he does like to collect things. Well that's interesting, I hadn't heard that. Oh well never mind than. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatLakesGramma Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I still don't want to borrow it though... or my husband's 22. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 To everyone who made mention of this- Originally Posted By: Cosmin You can still get your head chopped of with a gun... I'd rather die with my faith in God then in a gun... That's your choice to make. But it's not your business to pass judgment on anyone who chooses differently. What is this?????? You guys ask his opinion of guns and then you accuse him of "passing judgement"??? You guys need to look at last weeks SS lesson on judging church members...Yeah, it's ok to do that. Suggest you look at I Corth and 2 Corth. Cosmon is not wrong in giving his opinion, especially when YOU'ALL ask for it. And if you really want to see judgement on individuals, listen up...I've yet to see a gun owner NOT obsess over his guns and legislation over the right to "bare arms"...And, according to a whole sect of Christians, owning guns shows a lack of faith. It used to be the Amish. Maybe the Quakers. Ask Aldona...she might know... And when you guys say things like the gun will protect your wife and kids, you sound ...weird...Since when can a gun protect you? YOU have to use it. And if you use it to protect your belongings, the law ain't gonna protect you. Know why? Because you have the ability to cause greater permanant harm. It's one thing to take things away from you....It's a whole neither ball of wax to harm on ANYONE....You shoot, aiming to kill, and you directly disobey God's commandments not to murder... And if your spouse and kids are killed by an insane intruder, don't you believe that you will see them again in heaven? Believing that is faith....Instead, you want to shoot the bastard who enters your house...Maybe you are quietly harboring the thought that you can get a new spouse and as for kids, oh well...perhaps the new spouse will provide for another one....Folks, your lack of faith is disturbing.... So, take your best shot over here, and leave Cosmin alone, you obsessed lack of Adventist faith gun owners. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor29 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Jesus instructed His disciples to carry weapons. Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Yeah, but Jesus was there to heal anyone they hurt. Moral of the story: If you don't have Jesus with you (or if you don't have even the faith of a mustard seed) to heal those you hurt, then put down your weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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