The Second Coming

[Dr. Shane]

Providing a army to protect this land is something for the government.The ordinary citizen cannot do so. Citizens cannot provide the infrastructure.

[bonnie]

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Actually these were great debates early in our nation's history. Even after WW1 our military was almost completely dismantled. There has been a very strong argument made that when the nation is not at war, it does not need a military. Those that are in favor of a strong defense (a standing military) basically won that argument after WW2.

It might be a day late and a dollar short to assemble an army and manufacture what they needed after the fact.

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It isn't such an issue of being entitled to someone else's money. Our success comes from other people. The Walton family is only among the richest in the world because people shop at Wal-Mart. Bill Gates is only rich because people purchase his Microsoft products. The free enterprise system, protection of private property and copyrights have all contributed to the success of every successful American. Every successful person in America owes a debt to society.

Every successful person owes a debt to this nation that allowed them to rise as far as their ambition and motivation would take them.

Being on the public dole is a bit different

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The successful American that disagree with that ought to move to Mexico, China or Kenya and try to see if he or she can become as successful there. Most would quickly return to the US and gladly pay the taxes here without whining about the benefits given to the poor among us.

There are many that should move out of this country and go to where socialism is well advanced. And hopefully we would not let them back in to their entitlements

Jesus taught that to whom much is given, much is required. The wealthy have a responsibility to help the poor. If the wealthy had always lived up to that responsibility the Great Society programs would have never been needed. These programs have been a roaring success.

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The key in helping the poor is to do so in a way that helps them transition out of poverty. That transition may take five, ten or fifteen years. We want to teach the poor how to live on a budget and gain marketable skills to they can earn a good living. For the most part, the Great Society programs have done that. More fine-tuning needs to be done but the safety net is working.

In your world it may take 15 years to learn how to budget and gain skills,not in mine.

Necessity is a great motivator just like hunger.

After x amount of time on the public dole,not taking advantage of what is offered in education and free living to gain skills,tough,off the tax payer's dollar.

If I knew my children would go hungry if I didn't get off my duff and do everything I could,I would not deserve to have them.

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I would much rather my tax dollars go to build houses for the poor than tanks and guns.

Isn't there something biblical about those who don't work,shouldn't eat? What about idle hands of those that live for years and years on the public dole?

[Gerr]

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I would much rather my tax dollars go to build houses for the poor than tanks and guns.

Isn't there something biblical about those who don't work,shouldn't eat? What about idle hands of those that live for years and years on the public dole?

Let me repeat: I hate welfare for the able-bodied!!! They should be required to work. Drug addict, single mothers on welfare should have their tubes tied. There are a lot of dirty streets in every town and city that could be cleaned out by those on the dole.

[bonnie]

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Let me repeat: I hate welfare for the able-bodied!!! They should be required to work. Drug addict, single mothers on welfare should have their tubes tied. There are a lot of dirty streets in every town and city that could be cleaned out by those on the dole.

You won't get any argument from me on what you have said.

Poverty does not mean incapable or stupid. Those on the taxpayer dole are living far better than many in years past.They should be required to be productive in some way for what they receive. They should not be allowed to be on the dole for 10-15 years before they get their act together.

When you think of the slaves that were freed and what a hardship they faced,free but not really free or the Jews coming out of the concentration camps. They should have been by current reasoning some of the most lawless, dangerous people on earth. They knew the hunger and hopelessness most never know.All they wanted was a chance to take care of their families.Denied that,they still did not sit back with their hands out.

[Gerr]

I believe in compassion, love, and mercy, but I also believe in responsibility and accountability. I also believe that when one depends on someone else, he/she is giving

up some freedom, and therefore those one is depending on should have the right to

dictate what they want done.

[karl]

Without the armed forces, we'd probably be speaking Japanese or German. Citing Swiss as an example is ridiculous. Number 1, they have a long history of neutrality. They keep their noses out of other nation's business. Number 2, what moron would want to spend their resources just to control the Alps?

Ever heard of the Monroe Doctrine?

And no, we wouldn't be speaking Japanese or German. A well-armed militia, as called for in our constitution, would have done a fine job of defending our country.

The United States armed forces have not been used to defend our shores in our lifetimes. They have been used for sticking our noses in other countries' business.

[Dr. Shane]

Let me repeat: I hate welfare for the able-bodied!!! They should be required to work.

Many on welfare do work. In fact, there are some military families that collect food stamps and heating assistance. Many single mothers work full-time, minimum wage jobs. My mother collected welfare for several years and always had a job. Even when she worked as a waitress and honestly reported her tips she qualified for public assistance.

Public assistance is available for the poor. The radical, cold-hearted, right-wing wants to classify everyone on welfare as lazy deadbeats. Don't fall for that lie! It simply isn't true. These folks complain about class envy yet they themselves envy the few dollars provided to a poor widow to pay her heat bill in the dead of winter. They would prefer that single mother prostitute herself so she doesn't need public assistance.

Note: There are two types of conservatives, Compassionate conservatives and cold-hearted right-wingers. President Bush was a compassionate conservative.

[bonnie]

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Many on welfare do work. In fact, there are some military families that collect food stamps and heating assistance. Many single mothers work full-time, minimum wage jobs. My mother collected welfare for several years and always had a job. Even when she worked as a waitress and honestly reported her tips she qualified for public assistance.

Our military should be paid enough to take care of their needs.

If you work at minimum wage and receive welfare benefits you should do reasonably well.

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Public assistance is available for the poor. The radical, cold-hearted, right-wing wants to classify everyone on welfare as lazy deadbeats. Don't fall for that lie! It simply isn't true. These folks complain about class envy yet they themselves envy the few dollars provided to a poor widow to pay her heat bill in the dead of winter. They would prefer that single mother prostitute herself so she doesn't need public assistance.

Knowing what you require of others can I anticipate you providing the quote or the information that backs up what you are saying?

Would love to see your proof of those that desire to see a prefer a single mother prostitute

What the radical cold hearted right wing wants is for welfare recipients to take advantage of what they are offered.

When the young pregnant teen signs on for welfare she should understand that her part in this arrangement is learning how to budget,lean how to feed her family in a healthy manner,take advantage of every class that is offered to them.Go to trade school,college etc to learn a trade or skill.Addiccted?go for treatment and quit blaming everyone else for the fact you are an addict.Use every opportunity that is out there to better themselves.

Not take 5-15 years to decide this as you suggest.Poverty is not the same as ignorance. Poverty can indicate lack of motivation and a desire to take care of your own needs

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There are two types of conservatives, Compassionate conservatives and cold-hearted right-wingers. President Bush was a compassionate conservative.

Unfortunately there is only one type of liberal.

[bonnie]

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Many on welfare do work. In fact, there are some military families that collect food stamps and heating assistance. Many single mothers work full-time, minimum wage jobs. My mother collected welfare for several years and always had a job. Even when she worked as a waitress and honestly reported her tips she qualified for public assistance.

Our military should be paid enough to take care of their needs.

If you work at minimum wage and receive welfare benefits you should do reasonably well.

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Public assistance is available for the poor. The radical, cold-hearted, right-wing wants to classify everyone on welfare as lazy deadbeats. Don't fall for that lie! It simply isn't true. These folks complain about class envy yet they themselves envy the few dollars provided to a poor widow to pay her heat bill in the dead of winter. They would prefer that single mother prostitute herself so she doesn't need public assistance.

Knowing what you require of others can I anticipate you providing the quote or the information that backs up what you are saying?

Would love to see your proof of those that desire to see a prefer a single mother prostitute

What the radical cold hearted right wing wants is for welfare recipients to take advantage of what they are offered.

When the young pregnant teen signs on for welfare she should understand that her part in this arrangement is learning how to budget,lean how to feed her family in a healthy manner,take advantage of every class that is offered to them.Go to trade school,college etc to learn a trade or skill.Addiccted?go for treatment and quit blaming everyone else for the fact you are an addict.Use every opportunity that is out there to better themselves.

Not take 5-15 years to decide this as you suggest.Poverty is not the same as ignorance. Poverty can indicate lack of motivation and a desire to take care of your own needs

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There are two types of conservatives, Compassionate conservatives and cold-hearted right-wingers. President Bush was a compassionate conservative.

Unfortunately there is only one type of liberal.

[karl]

Would love to see your proof of those that desire to see a prefer a single mother prostitute

What the radical cold hearted right wing wants is for welfare recipients to take advantage of what they are offered....

Unfortunately there is only one type of liberal.

Here is a heartwarming story for those of us of the "cold hearted" persuasion:

Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty.

Before involvement in social activism, Star Parker had seven years of first-hand experience in the grip of welfare dependency. Now, as a social policy consultant, Star is bringing new energy to policy discussions on traditional mores, limited government and private ownership. She provides regular testimony before the US Congress, and is a sought after expert for radio, television, and print, nationwide.

Star has a BS degree in Marketing and Business from Woodbury University and has received numerous awards and commendations for her work. She has lectured on poverty issues at more than 180 colleges and universities and has served on advisory boards for several organizations ranging from Carenet to the Cato Institute.

Star Parker’s personal transformation from welfare dependent to conservative crusader has been chronicled by ABC’s 20/20; Rush Limbaugh; Readers Digest; Dr. James Dobson; The 700 Club; Dr. George Grant; Christianity Today; Rev. James Robison; Newsmax, Charisma, and World Magazine.

Other major accomplishments include speaking at the 1996 Republican National Convention, and coproducing and hosting a documentary on affirmative action with the BBC in London. She has debated Jesse Jackson on various headline issues; she fought for school choice on Larry King Live; she defended welfare reform on the Oprah Winfrey Show, and she debated healthcare reform against Michael Moore on ABC’s The View with host Barbara Walters.

Currently, Star is a regular commentator on CNN, TBN, CNBC, CBN, and FOX News. Articles and quotes by Star continuously appear in major publications around the world. She has written three books. “Pimps, Whores & Welfare Brats”, “Uncle Sam's Plantation”, and “White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner CityDecay.”

Today, in addition to heading CURE, Star is a syndicated columnist for Scripps News Service, offering weekly op-eds to more than 300 newspapers worldwide, including the Boston Herald, the Dallas Morning News, the Orange County Register, the Korean Times, the Washington Times, and the Star and Stripes, the largest paper serving the men and women of our Armed Forces

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Without the armed forces, we'd probably be speaking Japanese or German. Citing Swiss as an example is ridiculous. Number 1, they have a long history of neutrality. They keep their noses out of other nation's business. Number 2, what moron would want to spend their resources just to control the Alps?

Ever heard of the Monroe Doctrine?

And no, we wouldn't be speaking Japanese or German. A well-armed militia, as called for in our constitution, would have done a fine job of defending our country.

The United States armed forces have not been used to defend our shores in our lifetimes. They have been used for sticking our noses in other countries' business.

Achtung Karl! You might wanna rethink that "well armed militia" comment. Banzai!!!!

P.S. Is the Monroe Doctrine one of our 28 SDA Fundamentals??

[Dr. Shane]

Cold-hearted conservatives believe that single mothers should become prostitutes if they can't earn enough from waitressing or working at Wal-Mart.

Compassionate conservative believe in providing the poor with a safety net which transitions them into the workforce with marketable skills. President Bush was a compassionate conservative and a fine example of what all conservatives should try to be.

[Dr. Shane]

Here is a heartwarming story for those of us of the "cold hearted" persuasion:

If one wants a heartwarming story about the success of welfare one need not go any further than me. My story is a welfare success story. I was raised on the welfare dime. I went to college on public assistance. I now have a BS in Construction Management and earn a middle-class salary.

One of the biggest things we can do to help the poor, besides giving them public assistance, is to keep the predatory credit card companies away from them. Credit card companies should be ban from issuing credit cards to anyone on public assistance. Same with those pay-day loans. They should be ban from giving loans to anyone on public assistance.

[bonnie]

Cold-hearted conservatives believe that single mothers should become prostitutes if they can't earn enough from waitressing or working at Wal-Mart.

You of course can provide a quote or a source for the above statement

[Dr. Shane]

Prostitution in third world countries is much more prevalent because they do not have a safety net. Even child prostitution is common place in these countries. Prostitution is less common in the developed world and mostly confined to those that come from broken homes, are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol or afflicted with mental illness. For those without marketable skills or a safety net, prostitution is often their only means for survival. Necessity is a great motivator just like hunger.

[doug yowell]

Cold-hearted conservatives believe that single mothers should become prostitutes if they can't earn enough from waitressing or working at Wal-Mart.

Compassionate conservative believe in providing the poor with a safety net which transitions them into the workforce with marketable skills. President Bush was a compassionate conservative and a fine example of what all conservatives should try to be.

That's really cold, Shane.Prostitution?? Every cold hearted conservative I've ever known believes that no single mother should ever stoop that low. There are always job opportunities with ACORN.

[Dr. Shane]

The problem with these cold-hearted conservatives is that they don't think through the natural consequences of the positions they take. That is in contrast to President Bush. Bush clearly stated that he would not balance the federal budget on the backs of the poor and many of the cold-hearted conservatives got angry at him for saying that. They wanted to balance the budget on the backs of the poor!!! If we take away public assistance from the poor, prostitution is all they have left. So one cannot say they are against public assistance but don't want to encourage prostitution.

[doug yowell]

The problem with these cold-hearted conservatives is that they don't think through the natural consequences of the positions they take. That is in contrast to President Bush. Bush clearly stated that he would not balance the federal budget on the backs of the poor and many of the cold-hearted conservatives got angry at him for saying that. They wanted to balance the budget on the backs of the poor!!! If we take away public assistance from the poor, prostitution is all they have left. So one cannot say they are against public assistance but don't want to encourage prostitution.

Nonsense! they can always go into politics......wait.

[bonnie]

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The problem with these cold-hearted conservatives is that they don't think through the natural consequences of the positions they take.

The trouble with those that want cradle to grave care is they do not think through the natural consequences of their positions.

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That is in contrast to President Bush. Bush clearly stated that he would not balance the federal budget on the backs of the poor and many of the cold-hearted conservatives got angry at him for saying that.

I would like to see Shane's quotes on this.Most that are against open ended welfare to able bodied adults want them to take some personal responsibility.Poor does not mean stupid and helpless.

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They wanted to balance the budget on the backs of the poor!!! If we take away public assistance from the poor, prostitution is all they have left. So one cannot say they are against public assistance but don't want to encourage prostitution.

Many,many poor people in this country refuse to live on public assistance and do not go into prostitution.

Third world countries do not have the educational or employment opportunities of the US. During and following the depression you did not see rampant prostitution in this country.

If you need public assistance for a time take advantage of what is provided. Job training,grants to further your education. You should not have the luxury of waiting 5-15 years to get your act together.

If you continue to have more children on the public dole,we will take and care for your child until you can be responsible.

When you sign up for welfare there are certain actions required of you.Not years down the road but at the time you begin to accept the taxpayer's money.

Learn to balance a budget,stop thinking because you are poor you deserve special consideration.Many of us have been or are and did not turn to prostitution.Care enough about your children to take advantage of all the information available to feed and care for them properly.

Use your time to receive an education,one class at a time if necessary.

There are many service sector jobs that pay over minimum wage,hard work but tough.

Sometimes even two jobs are necessary. Many of us have had to do that. Poor meant we really had to go after it,not sit down and say,"I am poor,I am helpless,I am not bright enough to read a contract,take care of me until I get my act together"

Hard work,motivation,desire to do better coupled with the public assistance is pretty much a winner.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Let me repeat: I hate welfare for the able-bodied!!! They should be required to work.

Many on welfare do work. In fact, there are some military families that collect food stamps and heating assistance. Many single mothers work full-time, minimum wage jobs. My mother collected welfare for several years and always had a job. Even when she worked as a waitress and honestly reported her tips she qualified for public assistance.

Public assistance is available for the poor.

THAT I am all for!!!

[karl]

Star Parker is one of my favorite columnists because she was a liberal poster child (black, unmarried mother dependent on the state) but she cuts right to the chase with plain speaking. One of her most popular commentaries is: "Back on Uncle Sam’s Plantation (welfare as we know it)" where she explains in no uncertain terms how being in a nanny state is the same as slavery. Those who are on welfare are enslaved and locked into the system and we who are paying for the welfare with our taxes are equally enslaved. It’s a great article. You should read it if you haven’t, as it gives you a whole different outlook on welfare and what it ultimately does to people. Link below:

http://townhall.com/columnists/StarParker/2009/02/09/back_on_uncle_sams_plantation

[Dr. Shane]

The trouble with those that want cradle to grave care is they do not think through the natural consequences of their positions.

I have never met anyone that has wanted cradle to grave care. I have heard some talk like that on TV and the radio but never met one in real life.

[Dr. Shane]

Star Parker is one of my favorite columnists...

Who needs Star Parker when you have me here at C/A?

[bonnie]

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I have never met anyone that has wanted cradle to grave care. I have heard some talk like that on TV and the radio but never met one in real life.

I am equally certain you have never heard anyone in real life advocate prostitution for women instead of welfare. That doesn't stop you from repeating it as fact tho.

You come pretty close to wanting cradle to grave care.

You seem to think a senior citizen or mother on welfare has suddenly found themselves without any intelligence. Let's protect them from everything,they have no clue how to read a contract. Keep them on welfare till they decide it is time to get their act together 5-15 years is not to long.Provide them with welfare for a full year after marriage etc etc.

Giving them a hand up out of welfare while expecting personal responsibility is equal to prostitution in your eyes.

Glad my mother never used poverty as an excuse and decided she needed to prostitute herself in order to keep us fed

[Dr. Shane]

I am equally certain you have never heard anyone in real life advocate prostitution for women instead of welfare.

Oh I have. Not just for women either. Men are prostitutes too. Necessity is a great motivator just like hunger.