bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Quote: The overwhelming majority of Muslims live in poverty. Muslims are the largest group of people living in extreme poverty today. More than a half billion Muslims live in "extreme poverty", defined by the World Bank as living on less than $1.25/day. That is more than a third of all of those living in extreme poverty. Their poverty is not because of the west. Quote: And poverty is a major contributing factor in the tensions between the Islamic world and the West. So what are we Christians to do about it? Their leaders are more than happy to keep them in as much poverty as possible Quote: I don't know, Tom. I'm not a Christian, according to Neil, so I guess I don't need to worry about it. If someone does not praise or share their opinion of Islam they are accused of hatred. Just flipping that around perhaps those that have taken you to task are expressing hatred towards you. Osama Bin Laden comes to mind.He could improve the lot of many muslims.Maybe the contribution to the families of muslim suicide bombers count. The duty of christians is different than a secular government. Our government is not responsible or obligated to make sure our culture is approved of by muslims or anyone else. Quote: But why aren't the sheiks who have billions of money do something to help their own? Don't they care? Sure they do.Families are compensated for those they dupe into becoming suicide bombers Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 10, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2010 Did God create every human being? Did Jesus die for every human being? End of discussion about some human beings being worth more than others. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Did God create every human being? Did Jesus die for every human being? End of discussion about some human beings being worth more than others. I don't think anywhere has it been questioned whether God created all or who Jesus died for. Nor was any statement made about some human beings worth more than others. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Yeah Bravus.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Maybe the radical Muslims got on the internet one day and that's why they now want to put the Christians out of their misery. Islam behaved in this fashion centuries ago. Why start with the internet? If Americans are to be expected to hang their heads in shame over actions taken by the early settlers we should expect no less from muslims. Their behavior was bloody and brutal from the get go. If as was said....And poverty is a major contributing factor in the tensions between the Islamic world and the West. what caused this brutal bloody behavior of muslims. The west "US,Americans" did not exist to shoulder the blame.What country or culture do you blame? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Islam behaved in this fashion centuries ago. Why start with the internet? If Americans are to be expected to hang their heads in shame over actions taken by the early settlers we should expect no less from muslims. Their behavior was bloody and brutal from the get go. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Quote: Jews started out that way too. I saw it in the Bible. But I guess everyone here is too PC to say anything about about them. Please explain what you found in the bible concerning the wanton butchery of Jews. There are battles commanded by God,but unless you believe Islam was commanded by God,show me the similarity. Quote: Well... all of them. Each is responsible for their own behavior. Leaders of impoverished countries are responsible for bad leadership. Maybe if more attention were paid by them they would not have to blame the US. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Please explain what you found in the bible concerning the wanton butchery of Jews. There are battles commanded by God,but unless you believe Islam was commanded by God,show me the similarity.It doesn't matter whether you believe God commanded it; the Qur'an also claims that God commanded them to go to war. You're just letting the Jews off the hook because you believe in their book. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 Quote: And poverty is a major contributing factor in the tensions between the Islamic world and the West. So what are we Christians to do about it? Statement made...question asked! After reading replies to the above........ Rebuttal to none asked question, but no suggestions in answer of question! Do we have a AADD problem on these forums? I *had* an answer, but I'm not allowed to write it. Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Quote: It doesn't matter whether you believe God commanded it; the Qur'an also claims that God commanded them to go to war. You're just letting the Jews off the hook because you believe in their book. I don't have any faith in the Qur'an.It is not inspired by God. It makes a great deal of difference if something was commanded by God. BTW what is their book? The OT? I thought that was mine as well along with the NT. If acknowledging that I believe the bible and that it is the only inspired word of God is letting anyone,Jew or?? off the hook I guess I have to say guilty. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 For this purpose it does not matter whether or not either was inspired by God. If the Qur'an said, "Everyone who is found will be thrust through, and everyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their children also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished," you would say that that was wrong and terrible. But if it's in the Bible, it's okay, because you believe in the Bible. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Mac Mac Mac Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 For this purpose it does not matter whether or not either was inspired by God. If the Qur'an said, "Everyone who is found will be thrust through, and everyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their children also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished," you would say that that was wrong and terrible. But if it's in the Bible, it's okay, because you believe in the Bible. To me it does. There are many portions of the bible I do not enjoy reading. But I believe them to be true no matter what is says. I understand a muslim will choose the Qur'an as inspired. That does not make it so or the bible any less inspired. If americans have to be verbally lashed and blamed for the muslim hatreds then we need to stop revering the muslim religion. Their history,based on blood and death should be remembered at the sight or words of a muslim anywhere as it is with americans. I do not revere the religion of Islam,I believe it to be something evil for many. I do not believe the west is responsible for their poverty.Their leaders are and will keep them that way.A thriving nation has little interest in blowing up bldgs in America. I don't care if they like or approve our culture.I don't approve of theirs either. I don't care if they added bits and pieces of the bible into theirs.It does not make theirs inspired. I don't care what they believe as long as they do not force others at the point of a knife to follow theirs. They should be treated with fairness and kindness.They should not be given freedom to run rough shod over others Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 "Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons. This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith" (Paul of Tarsus). Peter wasn't POLITICALLY CORRECT either. "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption.." (2 peter 2:9-12). I guess Peter & Paul had no trouble with honesty. Halleleujah, oG Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 To me it does. There are many portions of the bible I do not enjoy reading. But I believe them to be true no matter what is says. I understand a muslim will choose the Qur'an as inspired. That does not make it so or the bible any less inspired. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Murder and slaughter are OK - indeed, laudable - when 'we' do it but damnable when 'they' do it. OK. This quote from Sam Harris that a friend posted on Facebook yesterday comes to mind... "Religion raises the stakes of human conflict much higher than tribalism, racism, or politics ever can, as it is the only form of in-group/out-group thinking that casts the difference between people in terms of eternal rewards and punishments" Sam Harris Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Murder and slaughter are OK - indeed, laudable - when 'we' do it but damnable when 'they' do it. OK It would really be helpful if you could actually stick to what was said. I did say the way this land was settled it was atrocious. It was also the way of the world at that time. Wrong as it was land was conquered by those stronger than the inhabitants. As the Ojibwe of MN conquered,killed and made slaves of the Souix. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Atrocious, but you don't anyone making a big deal out over it, because that's just the way people were back then. But of course that doesn't count for the Muslims! They were obviously a different story. Nasty people! Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Atrocious, but you don't anyone making a big deal out over it, because that's just the way people were back then. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Quote: I understand a muslim will choose the Qur'an as inspired. That does not make it so or the bible any less inspired. Quote: Hmmmmm....Same attitude as the early settler, I would imagine. Substitute "injun" for "muslim" and "Great Spirit" for "Qur'an" and I believe there is a problem here.... There is but one inspired word of God.What you believe I have no idea.It maybe in other languages but God's word is inspired. Sorry if you have a problem with that.There is nothing inspired by the Qur"an If americans have to be verbally lashed and blamed for the muslim hatreds then we need to stop revering the muslim religion.Their history,based on blood and death should be remembered at the sight or words of a muslim anywhere as it is with americans. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Quote: Hmmmmm....Same attitude as the early settler, I would imagine. Substitute "injun" for "muslim" and "Great Spirit" for "Qur'an" and I believe there is a problem here.... There is but one inspired word of God.What you believe I have no idea.It maybe in other languages but God's word is inspired. Sorry if you have a problem with that.There is nothing inspired by the Qur"an Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 I wasn't talking about the settling of America at all: the 'we' in my post was us Judeo-Christians. (I'm not in the American 'we'...) It's OK for the Jews to begin in slaughter, because God said so, but when the Muslims do so 1200 years later, it's damnable. That's my point and my whole point. Exceptionalism. Murder is OK for people with whom we agree but just cause to dismiss entirely and damn entire religions with whom we disagree. Murder is murder. As Feyerabend said, there is no culturally authentic torture or murder, there is just torture or murder. If God commanded it, so much the worse for God. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 It's OK for the Jews to begin in slaughter, because God said so, but when the Muslims do so 1200 years later, it's damnable. That's my point and my whole point. Exceptionalism. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Quote: "Nothing inspired by the Qur'an"? I am aware that the Sabbath is presented in a favorable light in the Qur'an....And that is the Saturday Sabbath.... Can you try to stick to what was said please. Presenting the sabbath in a positive light.Does not make the Qur'an inspired by God.Only one book does that Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 God makes all kinds of mistakes, in the eyes of "creational agnostics" and "progressive" biblical critics. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.