Moderators lazarus Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Is there reasoning with a terrorist? Actually , generally, yes. The point of terrorism is to bring terror so that the government/authorities will be willing to talk. It worked in Northern Ireland. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie Is there reasoning with a terrorist? Actually , generally, yes. The point of terrorism is to bring terror so that the government/authorities will be willing to talk. It worked in Northern Ireland. Not generally. Try reasoning with Osama Bin-Laden and reach a compromise Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie Is there reasoning with a terrorist? Actually , generally, yes. The point of terrorism is to bring terror so that the government/authorities will be willing to talk. No, the point of terrorism is to terrorize so that people will be willing to give up anything to make the terrorism stop. It is not to get government to talk. It is to get the government to give in to the demands of the terrorists or to simply get the government to a point of paralysis (or out of the way) so that the terrorists can gain power or control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Quote: . The point of terrorism is to bring terror so that the government/authorities will be willing to talk. Quote: No, the point of terrorism is to terrorize so that people will be willing to give up anything to make the terrorism stop. It is not to get government to talk. It is to get the government to give in to the demands of the terrorists or to simply get the government to a point of paralysis (or out of the way) so that the terrorists can gain power or control. Terrorists are simply misunderstood gentle souls that want only the best for "their people" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 13, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2010 No, the point of terrorism is to terrorize so that people will be willing to give up anything to make the terrorism stop. It is not to get government to talk. It is to get the government to give in to the demands of the terrorists or to simply get the government to a point of paralysis (or out of the way) so that the terrorists can gain power or control. Most if not all terrorist groups don't have the capacity to take over the government or they would actually form some kind of militia or rebel army. The reason they resort to terrorism is because of their relatively small numbers and relatively limited resources. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 13, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2010 Governments talk to terrorists all the time.They always will. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I wanted to share this but wasn't sure where would be best, so since this is mostly related to the topic I'll post it here. At Pathfinders last night, taking prayer requests, our leader suggested praying for the troops in Iraq. One kid said, "We're winning!" Leader: "Yeah, but a lot of people are dying over there, so..." Kid: "Well, yeah, but a lot of the Taliban are dying too..." Muslim=people disconnect? There seems to be a lot of that going around in some places. Of course, this particular kid has a brother in Iraq, so it's sort of understandable, but still... At least another kid said, "Well, duh!" That made me feel at least slightly better. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 24, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2010 Quote: SivartM: At Pathfinders last night, taking prayer requests, our leader suggested praying for the troops in Iraq. One kid said, "We're winning!" Leader: "Yeah, but a lot of people are dying over there, so..." Kid: "Well, yeah, but a lot of the Taliban are dying too..." Muslim=people disconnect? OK, but the Taliban are not just Muslim. They are Muslims who are out to kill innocent people or anyone who gets in the way of their ambitions to rule the country. They don't care if they have power legally or by the will of the people. So there's a sense in which it's irrelevent whether they're Muslim. Because of the danger they pose to the safety of the people, their religion isn't the primary issue. It would be the same if atheists or adherents of any other religion posed the same kind of danger. As a Seventh-day Adventist, I would treat the Taliban the same as I do anyone else, and I would help them if they were hurt and I pray for them that they will be converted to Christ. I recognize that God loves them as much as he loves me. Christ died for each person, including the Taliban. But I could say the same thing about Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao or the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor and forced my great-uncle to walk in the Bataan Death March in the Philippines. However, having said that, you can be sure that I'm glad the US won the war against the Nazis and against the Fascist Italians and Japanese. We can be glad that American children are in favor of Americans winning the war in Afghanistan. I wouldn't want my children to feel indifferent about who wins the war over there. Our neighbors and family members are fighting over there to help the Afghan people have their freedom, including the freedom of females to be educated. I'd say that's worth fighting for. Freedom is worth dying and fighting for, don't you agree? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Okay, then Taliban=people. They're people no matter what group they happen to be in, of course. Terrorists like that are sort of tricky for me to think about, but I don't think people should be killing them. I'm glad that the result of World War II made the world better, but I don't think that justifies all the death and pain that comes from war. Jesus fought and died for our freedom. Of course I agree that we should be fighting. But not against people. We should fight for people, against the real enemy. And I don't consider the Taliban or anyone else my enemy. They are people who were born in a different place than I was, with different lives than mine. The more I think about all the wars we fight and have fought, the less I agree that they were God's will. May the God of peace be with you. :D Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Okay, then Taliban=people. They're people no matter what group they happen to be in, of course. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Do you have a suggestion as to what should be done? Should our country let them commit a 9/11 at will? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 QR frame: Utopia is only a dream away (emphasis on dream) Jesus Christ left us with the admonition to-- "Buy a sword" - as opposed to dull knives. What?—for ease of butchering? Tchah! For defensive purposes?—or to proactively protect and to ensure justice for the weak? Not for nuthin’ Jesus Christ spoke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Actually, when Peter was proactively protecting and ensuring justice, Jesus told him to put his sword away... Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Quote: Well... we could pray. It might be rather arrogant to believe those that disagree with you are a stranger to that idea Quote: Was it worth it for the people who died without Jesus? Millions have died without Jesus. I don't think that is an indication that we should just stand there and allow a slaughter like Pearl Harbor. Didn't Samson on instruction from God kill many as well as himself.Did he forget they were just different than himself and just really wanted to be friends Seems David took Goliath down to size per God's instructions.Whatever was he thinking? Quote: Oh, yes. He came to give us eternal life, and He came to set us free! And we are free. Even if we're prisoners of the Taliban! I am not convinced that God has in mind for us to be prisoners of the Taliban as they go about their fiendish work Forfeiting your life for your religious convictions is a bit different than forfeiting it to those that take your life because they are evil and they can. Yeah,I know you probably don't believe people that will behead you just because they don't like you as your enemy. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJohn Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The nearer one comes to the leader demonstrates the power of Christianity over every religion. Remember Joseph the hated brother? Moses the most humble man? Daniel the Prime Minister? Stephen the deacon? Ruby Bridges the 6 year-old who changed America? Martin Luther King? Only Christ living in us can supply such power. I don't know what God's going to do with Islam but I do know we can live Christ's life now if we let His mind be in us. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 24, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2010 ...erm, and the Taliban are not in Iraq... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The more I think about all the wars we fight and have fought, the less I agree that they were God's will. May the God of peace be with you. I'm not going to argue in favor of any war, but I believe there can come a time when good people must lethally resist evil people. Let's go back in time and see whether you agree that bad guys should be killed sometimes. What about Goliath or any of the Philistines? What about the people of Jericho? If you agree that, when God directs, evil people should be killed, then you agree that people can get to the place that they should be killed. Now the question is, does that happen any more, or has God's Spirit so transformed the lives of everyone that people no longer get to the point that they need to be killed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 War is not the answer. Yours truely, Neville Chamberlain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 It might be rather arrogant to believe those that disagree with you are a stranger to that idea Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Quote: didn't say you were a stranger. But nobody had brought it up as a viable alternative to war. Many that I know have used that viable alternative many,many times. Those on the battlefield,mothers that are sending their sons and daughters to the battlefield. Quote: If God has directly told us to be involved in any of the wars that have been mentioned, then I stand corrected. But I don't recall ever hearing about this. People always seem to assume that God is on their side. Hitler thought God was on his side, too, but obviously that wasn't the case. I don't think God has prohibited a country from defending itself. Quote: Also, I never said that our national enemies wanted to be friends. What they would like to do is conquer the US Quote: Who gets to decide when the evil people should be killed? I don't know of any divine revelation in the last two thousand years that has directed anyone to kill anyone. If we get to decide who dies, then we can just kill anyone we disagree with or don't like. Maybe Pearl Harbor,9/11,the various other terrorist attacks.Those were a bit more than mere disagreements. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Many that I know have used that viable alternative many,many times. Those on the battlefield,mothers that are sending their sons and daughters to the battlefield. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Originally Posted By: karl If you agree that, when God directs, evil people should be killed, then you agree that people can get to the place that they should be killed. Now the question is, does that happen any more, or has God's Spirit so transformed the lives of everyone that people no longer get to the point that they need to be killed? Who gets to decide when the evil people should be killed? The first order of business is to settle in our minds whether that decision must ever be made. There is no sense deciding who must decide if we believe nobody needs to decide. Does it ever happen anymore that someone becomes so depraved or dangerous that he or she should be put to death? If your answer is "No" there is no need to discuss this any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 How should I know if someone is so depraved or dangerous that he or she should be put to death? For all I know, if they aren't killed, the next day they will become a Christian. I wouldn't trust myself to know when someone should die. So, in a way, my answer is "No". I guess we're done then. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate of omniscience. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Quote: I wouldn't trust myself to know when someone should die. So, in a way, my answer is "No". Well,if I had the choice of Charles Manson,one I personally believe is totally depraved and evil,living next door to me and getting the death penalty,the death penalty wins. The green river serial killer is another. The choice of him running free and killing dozens of young women,just because he could,and the death penalty,the death penalty wins. Perhaps you believe rather than the death penalty,a loaf of home made bread would do it and soften his heart. Good for you Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 There is something called "prison", you know. It does not involve destroying people, and it keeps them from continuing to break the law. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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