Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[Musicman1228]

Jesus used the OT (Hebrew) Scripture as His source for defining truth to Israel and the world. Jesus did not use the NT because it was not written, and because He would not have needed it to prove truth. Satan tried to use the OT to trap Jesus into error and a lie, but failed when Jesus turned the tables on him and refuted His lies with the truth.

It is written that "to the Law and to the testimony, if they do not speak according to THIS word there is no light in them". This refers to the OT not the NT. The NT was compiled in a relatively short period of time using Roman Catholic clergy as the deciders of what to include. Satan had direct control over these people, and no direct control over what was included in the OT.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: jsm

With all these distractions, taking up most of 5 pages, it is evident the devil does not want anyone here to read and comment on my blog in a helpful way.

Please limit discussion here to the reasonable Bible-based parameters presented for this thread. If moderators feel that is not a reasonable request, then I will seek other avenues for helpful dialog.

OK, good point, jsm. I will do that, and I join with you in asking everyone else to do the same.

If someone wants to continue discussing any of the other side-issues that have been brought up, they should create a separate thread.

Thanks, everyone!!

You're being ignored John and Stan.

Rich and MM, why are you ignoring the polite request of both the moderator, and the author of this thread? This thread is supposed to be about the paper that Stan McCluskey wrote. Neither one of you has even read it, much less talking about what it says. All you're doing is continuing to post the same nonsense that you post on every other thread you highjack. I can't tell if you're just obnoxiously spiteful, or extremely slow. But it's one of the two.

Once again, (and I'm typing as slow as I can) Here's the link to the p-a-p-e-r.

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

[Dr. Rich]

I beg you pardon Richard, for I have read all of it! Since questions were asked on this thread and accusations were made against us, we have the right to respond to these questions and accusations. You just accused us as not reading what Stan wrote and you couldn't be more wrong. What Stan wrote or copied, came straight from EGW's writings to the most part. This is about the same thing that is being taught by SDA preachers on end time events. It certainly is not new.

Question Stan-do you believe that Jesus could come at any time, meaning like today or tomorrow? If so, why? If not, why?

[Guest]

Since you don't believe in Ellen White, or most of the other beliefs any of the SDA beliefs on prophecy, then the polite thing to do would be to move on. You have nothing to contribute but your normal highjacking to your favorite topic of whether or not EGW and Paul were inspired by Satan.

[Dr. Rich]

Richard, please don't attack me anymore. Lets get back to the issue on this thread. If you read what Stan wrote, then make your comments and be done with it. I happen to agree with Stan that end time events are extremely important and that we all need to know what is the truth. You act as if you are the only one that knows it all because of your constant attacks upon people who don't believe the way you do. BTW, do you believe that Jesus could come today or tomorrow?

[Jodie]

With all these distractions, taking up most of 5 pages, it is evident the devil does not want anyone here to read and comment on my blog in a helpful way.

Please limit discussion here to the reasonable Bible-based parameters presented for this thread. If moderators feel that is not a reasonable request, then I will seek other avenues for helpful dialog.

Please post your comments about the paper on this thread. Even a "yes" or "no" on whether you read it would be welcome.

Thanks,

Stan Mc (JSM)

I apologize to you Stan. I will certainly respect your wishes and stay on topic in your thread. I did start to read your blog post last night but only made it about half way through before my eyes decided it was time for bed.

[jsm]

On most forums the moderators have the ability to transfer off-topic posts to another thread, with a simple explanation on where that thread can be found. Can that be done here to clear this up?

This thread is for a discussion on Bible prophecy for our times as outlined in:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

Please share appropriate comments on this forum thread.

Thanks,

Stan Mc

[Musicman1228]

Stan, you did a very comprehensive job of detailing the SDA eschatology of the end of time. Your treatment was very well written and clear. I do have a question or two that I would appreciate you (or others) answering. These questions go to 'method', which would impact content. I will ask them one at a time so as not to overburden your time in the response.

Context: Both you and the SDA church assume an historic perspective of both the 7 seals and the 7 Trumpets, thereby placing the next major event as the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

Question: You have made the assumption that the messages to the Churches in Rev.2 and 3 are made in an historic context. What concrete proof can you cite that confirms this perspective.

Follow up question: To whom is the book of Revelation addressed?

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jsm

Please limit discussion here to the reasonable Bible-based parameters presented for this thread.

The following addresses the premise and wisdom of an arbitrary “Bible-based parameters” – when even the posts of jsm contain a generous salting of views of the pastoral EGW.

>>Adventism was founded using these rules of interpretation.<<

I believe “Adventism” was doctrine before even the NT was written – let alone before Wm Miller’s “rules” were developed.

>>And I suggest we stick with them.<<

Did they bear the expected 'fruit' for Wm Miller?

>>If it weren't for William Miller and his rules, you wouldn't be able to call yourself SDA. Because there wouldn't be any.<<

Then it ought to follow that Wm Miller was the first SDA, yes?

>>William Miller’s Rules of Intepretation<<

As I understand it – Wm Miller disavowed his prophetic interpretations – supposedly arrived-at by means of his “Rules”...

>>This thread is supposed to be about the paper that Stan McCluskey wrote.<<

Consider the foregoing posts – ‘clearing the air’ – or the forward to what, expectantly, will follow...

[jsm]

In response to MM:

Contrary to the DARCOM report, what I have written at http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

shows a historic progression of events that continues past 3:14-21 of the Laodicean period, and continues through to the end of probationary time as the 7th trumpet sounds in 11:15. (Please read the blog to understand the reasonable logic here).

This is based on the clear words of Jesus to John: “Come up here and I will show you things which must take place AFTER these [Laodicean] things (meta tauta). Rev 4:1.

Compare that with the following use of meta tauta (after these things):

“One woe is past, behold, still two more woes are coming after these things (meta tauta).” Rev 9:12.

“Jesus answered and said to him [Peter], ’what I am doing you do not understand now, but will know after these things (meta tauta).’" John 13:7. This same John wrote the Revelation.

The book of Revelation was sent to seven churches in Asia, but was addressed to “he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep those things which are written in it.” Revelation 1:11, 3.

While the messages to those seven churches applied to the named churches in Asia, the context of the “prophecy” extends from what John had seen and was seeing, to the things which take place in the future from his time. Revelation 1:19.

Looking back now over the Christian era we can see application of those seven messages to general periods of events in the history of the Christian church. It is also reasonable to apply these messages to various churches or groups in Christianity with comparable characteristics during any time in church history.

Several verses help with a historic application of these seven messages, but I will refer here to just two:

The 10 days [years] of tribulation in chapter 2:10 can be applied specifically to the persecution of Christians by pagans that had been increasing; and the fiercest time of persecution (303 to 313 A.D.) began during the reign of Roman Emperor Diocletian, and ended when religious freedom was granted by Constantine in 313.

Those in the sixth church period were told: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” 3:10. That time of trial may reasonably be compared to the “time of trouble” in Daniel 12:1 at the clear conclusion of a historic chain of events in chapter 11.

[Musicman1228]

jsm said, "The 10 days [years] of tribulation in chapter 2:10 can be applied specifically to the persecution of Christians by pagans that had been increasing; and the fiercest time of persecution (303 to 313 A.D.) began during the reign of Roman Emperor Diocletian, and ended when religious freedom was granted by Constantine in 313."

I will agree with you that this view is correct, IF you believe that the day/year accounting of prophecy is still in force today. It is my understanding from studying TIMING that the day/year application to prophecy ended in 1994 CE (explanation to follow). If that is the case then the 10 days of Rev.2:10 are literal days, and the rest of your explanation of the prophecy must change.

God's limit of forgiveness is 70;

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven. Matt.18:21-22.

This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, declares the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste. Jer. 25:11-12.

I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. Dan. 9:2.

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place." Dan. 9:24.

God's restoration is 49 (7 x 7);

“You shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall give you forty-nine years. Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land.  And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. Lev.25:8-10.

God's Timing:

A week of years - 7 day/years. (1 day = 1 year). Lev.25:1-4.

A week of Sabbath years - 7 day/years X 7 Sabbath years = 49 years. Lev. 25:8.

The Timing of Restoration of the Kingdom of Heaven:

70 (limit of forgiveness) X 49 years (for restoration) = 3,430 years.

In order to find the time of the beginning of restoration for the Kingdom of Heaven we would need to know the precise date for the founding of the Kingdom of Heaven. We can calculate this from waymark dates of Restoration years for Israel. The most notable date is the final year of the 490 day/year prophecy in Dan. 9;24. This is the years 33 CE. [490 - 33 = 457 CE, the year of the decree to restore Israel to their land).

The estimated historic date for when Israel left Egypt has been set by scholars as c. 1450 BCE. We need to find a date close to that date going backward from 33 CE to establish the date of the founding of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

By taking 33 CE as the end date we can back up in 49 year increments to find a date that is close the estimated date. There are exactly 30 cycles of 49 years ending in 33 CE which gives the beginning date as 1437 BCE. This then is the date upon which God took Israel out of Egypt and put them into the Kingdom of Heaven.

To find the future date for the beginning of restoration we simply add 3,430 years to 1437 BCE and we get 1994 CE. This is the date upon which God began the final process of the restoration of the world back to His authority.

To corroborate the date 1994 CE lets add 40 cycles (30 + 40 =70) of 49 years to the beginning year of the next cycle of 49 years AFTER 33 CE. We begin the next cycle in the year 34 CE. 40 X 49 = 1960 years.

34 CE + 1960 years = 1994 CE.

Therefore, according to my calculations 1994 CE was to be the date upon which the Great Tribulation began. Why did it not begin then?

Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”  And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, Rev. 7: 2-4.

And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, Rev. 10: 5-6.

Therefore, the year 1994 CE was the beginning of the delay during which the 144,000 would be prepared for service to the Kingdom of Heaven, and then the world.

We are in that delay right now. Soon there will be no more delay, the censer will be cast down from Heaven to earth, and the Great Tribulation will begin with the sounding of the first of seven Trumpets.

The day/year accounting in prophecy ended in 1994. Any prophecy containing a number that has not been fulfilled as yet must then be considered A LITERAL number. These would include all of the numbers in Revelation that have not yet been fulfilled, and the 1335 years in Dan 12.

[jsm]

MM, your calculations are wrong from the start. You say God’s limit of forgiveness is 70; and then you quote the words of Jesus in Matthew 18:22 where He says “seventy times seven”, which is 490 [compared the the 7 Peter suggested]

But Jesus made other statements showing that number is just a figure of speech, and not God’s limit. One of those verses is Mark 3:28-29, which says: “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation.”

Notice that He says “ALL sins will be forgiven” except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No number is given.

And Proverbs 28:13 reads, “He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever [WHOEVER] confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

So your calculation is wrong from the start when you say “God’s limit of forgiveness is 70.”

Your next error is to misapply specfic time-period prophecies by using them to generalize "limit of forgiveness" and "timing for restoration" plus a multiplication factor of the two.

It is wrong and spiritually dangerous to select numbers the way you have done. Remember, among others, that you have left out the 120 years before the flood [why not 70 or 49?] and the 400 years of Genesis 15:13 [again, why not 70 or 49?]. Also consider the 40 years in Numbers 14:34 for the Israelite wilderness wanderings. Why not 70 or 49?

 

I urge you to prayerfully consider the many errors in your calculations used in an attempt to establish a significance to the year 1994 CE. As with many other time-setters, you have chosen to justify your erroneous date when it passed, rather than admit you were wrong. But you and others in your group can do a wonderful work for God if you will just humbly recognize your errors and seek for truth. The last long time prophecy in the Bible ended in 1844. Beyond that we are given many signs that will show when the end is near.

[Musicman1228]

jsm,

My understanding of this is only a 'best guess', and I do not say that this understanding is the way things really are. I only 'suggest' this as a way of utilizing the literal numbers that Jesus spoke of in prophecy.

Peter said '7 times' believing that 7 was the number of time you should forgive you brother. Jesus said '70 times' 7, because He knew the 490 years period for Israel was coming to an end, and Israel had not accomplished what God had set for them to do. 70 is a LITERAL number, just as is 12 for the number of the disciples, the gates in the New Jerusalem and the stars in the crown of the Woman of Rev.12. 10 is the literal number for the Commandments, just as 144,000 is the LITERAL number of the Bondservants of Jesus Christ as seen in Rev.5 and 14. If these numbers are literal then there just might be a literal application for those numbers outside of the 'spiritual' applications that most people think are used in prophecy.

If it is true then we are closer to the end than most Christians would like to think we are. Most of us are quite satisfied to go on with life as it is, and not think to hard about the future.

Noah KNEW when the flood was coming because God closed the door of the ark 7 days before the flood began. The flood was the water cleansing of the earth. Do you not believe that God will give warning to the latter day 'Noah' who is the Faithful and Wise Servant (Matt. 24;45-51) in a similar manner, so that he can prepare his fellow servants and feed them their food at the proper time? According to that prophecy the Faithful and Wise Servant will be rewarded if he is doing this when the Master returns (as a thief in the night), and will punish that servant if he ignores the warnings and does not know when the Master is to come.

[jsm]

MM,

When the disciples asked Jesus how we can know when His coming is near, He did not suggest any time formula. Instead, He gave a long list of signs -- with the main one being preaching of the gospel in all the world. Matthew 24:14. You and your team can help on that with your radio and publications.

Also, I believe Jesus described in Revelation 4-11 a specific and rapid series of events to take place as the final phase of the Laodicean period just before the complete close of probation. The Bible-based rationale for this is explained at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

Concerning the signs given in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus said: "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28.

I believe that also applies to the seals and trumpets series of events, which opens with Jesus symbolically leading His people "conquering and to conquer" as they preach the good news about Him around the world. Future events may show that is now taking place.

[Dr. Rich]

Actually, Jesus said the gospel that would be preached into all the world is the gospel "of the Kingdom of Heaven"--a different gospel than what most churches are preaching today. One can't preach this until they know more about who, what and when the Kingdom of Heaven is right now.

Would not you agree that God must have made His months (new moons) not go into His year, on purpose? Could this purpose be so that the last generation's wise bondservants could use this to triangulate in order to know the correct timing of events? (Could it be that simple?)

[wayfinder]

MM,

When the disciples asked Jesus how we can know when His coming is near, He did not suggest any time formula. Instead, He gave a long list of signs -- with the main one being preaching of the gospel in all the world. Matthew 24:14. You and your team can help on that with your radio and publications.

Also, I believe Jesus described in Revelation 4-11 a specific and rapid series of events to take place as the final phase of the Laodicean period just before the complete close of probation. The Bible-based rationale for this is explained at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

Concerning the signs given in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus said: "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28.

I believe that also applies to the seals and trumpets series of events, which opens with Jesus symbolically leading His people "conquering and to conquer" as they preach the good news about Him around the world. Future events may show that is now taking place.

It would stand to reason that Jesus would not tell His disciples that His return would be around 2000 years in the future, it most likely would have affected their zeal in proclaiming a soon return of Christ. Jesus does say enough so that one may understand that just before He returns this specific knowledge would be made known, either through the unsealed part of the "time of the end" prophecy in Daniel chps 10-12 and not to rule out the possibility that God would open the mind of those who were seeking the truth at the time of the end.

I don't think you would argue with the fact that God gave specific and defined time periods in the endtime prophecies, one must ask themself, why God would do this if time and timing were either never to be understood or impossible to figure out or never to be taken literally. Out history as Adventists/Seventh-day Adventists was founded on time study. The fact that there was a great disappointment, which for most SDAs today is more of a great embarrassement, has effectivly stopped all study of time and timing in endtime prophecy. This understanding would tend to show some inconsistancy in God's revelations about who He is and how He acts.

Amos 3:7 NAS

Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

The best way to be unprepared is to not know the time of the return of the Bridegroom and the evil one has worked very dilligently to maintain the darkness about time.

Matthew 24:42-44 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Jesus commands us to be on the alert, why, because we do not know the day of His coming. Our Lord does not stop there, but goes on with the conjunction "But", the definition for "But" means "on the contrary". This statement is telling us that we do not know the day our Lord is coming, therefore we must be on the alert, on the alert for what? Is our Lord saying to watch the sky for His glorius coming, no, but to be on the alert for the unsealing of the information about the time. Jesus is not talking about His return at the end of the great tribulation here, He is talking about His coming like a thief in the night. So Matthew 24:42,43 could be stated as thus: you do not now know the day your Lord is coming, so remain alert for this information. If the Head of My Household knows the time of night, that I am coming like a thief, it would be because he discovered it when this information was made discoverable.

This Head of the Household is the Elijah type prophet, promised by our Lord.

Matthew 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first ?"

11 And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things ;

12 but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

13 Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.

Our expectation should be this, a person will appear out of obscurity with a message of the soon coming of the Bridegroom and judgment. This person will, if history repeats itself, more than likely, not be accepted by the theologic authority of his day. He will know the time and will deliver, along with his fellow bondservants, the final judgment message, he is the faithful and wise bondservant described in Matthew 24:42-51.

[jsm]

The "gospel of the kingdom" must be found in the context of those words in Matthew 24:14 and other words spoken by Jesus, and not some triangulated timing scheme.

This is the same "kingdom" Jesus referred to in His suggested prayer: "Thy kingdom come..." Matthew 6:10. Jesus also referred to this "gospel of the kingdom" in Matthew 4:23; 9:35; Mark 1:14 and called it "the kingdom of heaven" in Matthew 4:17; 5:3, 10, 19-20; 7:21; 8:11; 10:7; 11:11-12; 13:11, 24, 31, 33, 44-52; 16:19; 18:1-4, 23; 19:14, 23; 20:1; 22:2; 23:13; 25:1, 14.

I believe this to be the "everlasting gospel" spoken of in Revelation 14:6-7:

14.6

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [compare with the gospel "preached in all the world" Matthew 24:14]

14.7

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The words of the Bible will help us understand these things if we prayerfully follow the Bible method for interpretation: "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little." Isaiah 28:10.

[Dr. Rich]

jsm, we must not forget about Dan. 2's rock cut out w/o hands, Matthew 21:43 prophecy and Matthew 25's prophecy where the words used was AT THAT TIME? Sure, God's kingdom has been forever, but from what have read, Israel was also God's kingdom here on this earth and when they rejected God, God withdrew so there was no more Kingdom of Heaven at that time. However, in Daniel (9:24) we see that once more God's Kingdom, here on this earth, was given another chance during a specific time period--but failed again. (Babylon has fallen, fallen)

Therefore, when Jesus was talking about the future, at the time of His coming back like a thief, He described what the Kingdom of God would be like so the wise could know who they were and what was going to happen.

You and others (most of the Christian World) have and are confusing the many times God's Kingdom was here. So did Paul and the unknown writer of Hebrews. If you want to get down to earth about this, the whole bible is basically a history of God's Kingdoms. That is why there is not much information on anything prior to Adam and Eve, for they were to be the witnesses for the world about God and His Kingdom. (My view of course)

The everlasting gospel should be the same one Jesus said that will be preached to the whole would--and that gospel is about/of the Kingdom of Heaven--right? Isn't that the same message that Adam was supposed to give and then Israel was given two chances and what Jesus brought to this earth-and finally what the 144,000 and 5 wise proclaim for the last generation living on the earth?

[jsm]

How does Luke 17:20-21 fit into your scheme of things?

"And when he [Jesus] was demanded by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, 'The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.'"

[Musicman1228]

How does Luke 17:20-21 fit into your scheme of things?

"And when he [Jesus] was demanded by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, 'The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.'"

That statement is Paul's version of what he would have liked Jesus to say, it is not necessarily WHAT Jesus actually said. None of the other gospels include this statement, it is therefore not corroborated by the actual eyewitness disciples that were with Jesus from the beginning of His ministry (Mark writing for Peter).

[Guest]

But Paul didn't write it, Luke did. And what makes you think you know what Paul would have liked? I have found that almost everything you believe about Paul is wrong.

[wayfinder]

Richard, Luke was a protoge' of Paul. Paul was Luke's teacher and in everything Luke supports Paul. Luke was not an eyewitness/earwitness to Jesus Christ and His teachings. There is not one shread of evidence to support a belief that Luke was given information from any of the eyewitnesses/earwitnesses, in fact Luke's account of the time of the Son of God is very different than any of the eyewitnesses.

Richard, you have never offered valid proof of any kind, demonstrating that MM or myself are in error concerning Pauline salvation theology.

[Guest]

You're off topic as usual. You guys only have one topic. And you try to turn every thread into that one topic.

[Guest]

Those in the sixth church period were told: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” 3:10. That time of trial may reasonably be compared to the “time of trouble” in Daniel 12:1 at the clear conclusion of a historic chain of events in chapter 11.

I have always put Dan 12:1 with Rev 22:11, as referring to the same thing: The close of probation. When Jesus stands up and says it is finished.

[John317]

.. The NT was compiled in a relatively short period of time using Roman Catholic clergy as the deciders of what to include. Satan had direct control over these people, and no direct control over what was included in the OT.

This simply is not true. There were no "Catholic clergy" during the time when the NT was written and when the churches accepted those books. It wasn't "clegy" who selected the books-- it was the Christian churches as a whole. It wasn't left up to the clergy to tell people what books were of God and which were not of God. We don't accept the book of Romans, for instance, because of the decisions of the Roman Catholic Church.

You've apparently accepted the Roman Catholic version of what occurred and how the Bible comes to us. The RCC says we owe the NT to the Catholic Church, but they are wrong.

But this is getting off the main topic of this thread, so if you want to discuss it further, you'll need to take it somewhere else.