Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[jsm]

EGW and the SEVEN TRUMPETS:

“Solemn EVENTS before us are YET TO TRANSPIRE. TRUMPET AFTER TRUMPET is to be sounded." EGW in Maranatha 257.

“The SEVEN ANGELS stood before God to receive their commission. To them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS. The Lord was going forth TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH.” EGW in Maranatha 284.

That sounds to me like she applies those trumpets to the end-time.

=============

As stated below, the SDA Daniel & Revelation Committee (DARCOM) was not able to find agreement on what they called "the very obscure trumpet series."

Introduction statement in the DARCOM Symposium on Revelation -- Book 1.

"The committee did not wish to foster unnessary speculation on the very obscure trumpet series. It chose not to print samples of historicist interpretations. Limiting its published expressions to the biblical evidence that clearly locates both the seals and trumpets in historical, probationary time, the committee would encourage continued study within these parameters."

You will note that my paper does locate “both the seals and trumpets in historical, probationary time.”

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

[Christopher]

BobRyan do you have the reference for that EGW quote?

Very interesting read jsm :)am thinking an d praying aon a reply at the moment,plus if BObryan or anyone can help me with that quote,it would be very helpful.thx

See you didn't touch much on Revelation 10 there much and that would be my where my questions/comments would be directed toward

[Musicman1228]

Check out what EGW says about the 7th Trumpet on GC page 433.

[jsm]

"I saw that we are now in the SHAKING time. Satan is working with all his power to wrest souls from the hand of Christ and cause them to trample underfoot the Son of God." EGW in 1T 429.

That was very accurate considering how many turned away when Jesus did not come in 1844.

Now note that she later also applied it to the future:

"The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing...In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the SHAKING, testing time will be disclosed to view." 5T 80.

===============

It may not yet be time to speculate on the little book and sealed thunders of Revelation 10. However, there seems to be a relationship between verses 8-11 and Ezekiel 2:9 through 3:4 and verse 14.

[jsm]

Chris, I notice you are in Alaska. I fished in Bristol Bay while going to college; and my wife was born there the first winter after her parents arrived from the States. We met at WWC.

An added note:

Please remember to read: http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

[jsm]

As with many events in the Bible and in our world today, we should recognize Christ coming as a thief can apply to several situations.

EXAMPLES:

1. Start of the investigative jugment in 1844. Revelation 3:4; Daniel 7:13.

2. Judgment of the living as individuals. Matthew 24:40-44.

2. The final close of probation for all. Matthew 25:13.

3. The end-time day of the Lord, which begins just before probation closes and continues through the 7 last plagues. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6; 2 Peter 3:10; Luke 21:34.

4.The second coming of Christ. Revelation 16:15.

======================

SEVENTH TRUMPET has not yet sounded:

"The kingdoms of this world have not yet become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ." EGW in Special Testimonies on Education, p. 131. See Revelation 11:15.

[jsm]

There is much appropriate discussion here about the seal of God and the 144,000.

With that in mind, I encourage you to read the following paragraph and then read my paper titled “Will I Be In Heaven?” that applies to ALL who will enter heaven.

“Now is the time to prepare. The seal of God will never be placed upon the forehead of an impure man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of the ambitious, world-loving man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of men or women of false tongues or deceitful hearts. All who receive the seal must be without spot before God--candidates for heaven. Go forward, my brethren and sisters. I can only write briefly upon these points at this time, merely calling your attention to the necessity of preparation. Search the Scriptures for yourselves, that you may understand the fearful solemnity of the present hour.” 5T 216.

WILL I BE IN HEAVEN?

J. Stanley McCluskey, 2/09/2010

Stan.mccluskey@gmail.com

It is interesting how well people get along together when they have the love of God in their hearts—even when they do not agree on theology. So is that “love” the key to entering heaven? While it is important to understand and do what God asks in His Word, is it possible that God will give primary consideration to our motives in deciding who to save? We are “saved by grace through faith;” but “though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”(1). We grow in love by the power of the Holy Spirit as we focus on God’s love.

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.’” "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.(2)

Jesus not only quoted from the Ten Commandments, but added a basic principle which reveals our inner motives for action: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”(3) The young man failed on that point. With all that essential obedience he was still just cultivating a dead tree.

The apostle Paul gives a similar illustration: “Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘You shall not covet,’ and if there is any other commandment, all are summed up in this saying, namely, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”(4)

Notice the importance of love in what John later wrote: We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.(5)

Jesus was asked, “What is the great commandment in the law?” To which He replied, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."(6)

Now notice how Jesus applied those great principles of God’s law when a man asked, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?” So he answered and said, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” And Jesus said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”(7) In that conversation Jesus makes clear the conditions for eternal life. Even right actions are like filthy rags if motivated by self-seeking instead of by love.(8)

After specifying love as a prime essential for eternal life, Jesus gave an illustration of that kind of godly love in action by a spiritually uninformed Samaritan, who had helped the wounded victim of a robbery. "The Samaritan had obeyed the dictates of a kind and loving heart, and in this had proved himself a doer of the law"(9) So what about those who do not know or understand God’s instructions and the good news about Jesus?

As we behold the reflected glory (goodness) of the Lord with receptive hearts, we are being transformed more and more by the Holy Spirit into the same image.(10) We behold that glory through Christ; but a significant evidence of His glory is also seen in nature by all people, so they are “without excuse.”(11)

An inspired writer comments: “Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness...Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God.”(12) Remember that even a poorly cultivated tree can bear fruit if properly planted; but the inner growth is always essential.

Compare this with what Paul wrote: “when [heathen] Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law…show the work of the law written in their hearts.” How? “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”(13) And even for those of us who have the Bible, Paul writes: “But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.”(14)

“Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is ‘the transgression of the law;’ (1 John 3:4) it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of LOVE which is the foundation of the divine government. Before the entrance of evil there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator's will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial.”(15) And for us now: “Love must be the principle of action. Love is the underlying principle of God's government in heaven and earth, and it must be the foundation of the Christian's character. This alone can make and keep us steadfast. This alone can enable us to withstand trial and temptation.” (16)

“When Eden shall bloom on earth again, God’s law of love will be obeyed by all beneath the sun.”(17) So, with that law of love, what will life be like throughout eternity? “Love is patient, love is kind and does not envy. It does not boast, and is not proud, rude, or self-seeking. It is not easily angered, and it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always perseveres. Love never fails.”(18)

How can we have this love? “Love is of God.” So “may the Lord make you increase and abound in love.”(19) How? John wrote: “God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment.”(20) And Jesus said, “He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much spiritual fruit: [love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control].” (21) So as we avoid self-seeking and focus our thoughts on Christ, the Holy Spirit causes love to become our natural motive.(22)

That provides for the essential inner growth; but having had an orchard, I know it is important to also learn and do all I can in caring for those trees so they will produce an abundance of quality fruit. And “In the spiritual as in the natural world, obedience to the laws of God is the condition of fruit bearing.”(23) As in orchard work, “All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”(24)

Jesus said we need to hear the word “with a noble and good heart, keep it, and bear fruit with patience.”(25) Patience implies that “It takes time to transform the human to the divine.”(26) But as in growing fruit, “When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously.”(27) Remember also that God has promised life and the kingdom “to those who love Him.”(28) And even now, “all things work together for good to those who love God”(29)

In Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus tells about the great judgment day when He makes the final decision on who will be saved or lost; and He represents that decision as turning on one point: Are they motivated by love in helping others? Yes, the “eternal destiny” of all “will be determined by what they have done or have neglected to do for Him in the person of the poor, the needy, and the suffering.” (30).

So “let’s examine our hearts based on the great principles of the law of God as defined by Christ: [You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and your neighbor as yourself.] These are the conditions for eternal life; for Jesus said, ‘Do this and you shall live.’”(31) He also said, “If you love me, you will obey what I command.” In fact, it will become our delight to do His will.(32)

“The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love. The children of God are to manifest His glory. [isaiah 60:1-5]. In their own life and character they are to reveal what the grace of God has done for them.”(33) I pray that each of us will know and experience this love more and more every day.

References:

Texts are from the NKJV unless otherwise indicated

1. Ephesians 2:4; 1 Corinthians 13:2

2. Matthew 19:16-22 NIV

3. Leviticus 19:18

4. Romans 13:8-10

5. 1 John 3:14

6. Matthew 22:36-40

7. Luke 10:25-28

8. Isaiah 64:6

9. Luke 10:29-37; DA 504

10. 2 Corinthians 3:18; 4:6

11. John 1:14; Psalms 19:1- 4; Romans 1:20

12. Desire of Ages, p. 638 by E. G. White (EGW)

13. Romans 2:14-15; Galatians 5:14

14. 1 Timothy 1:5 NASB

15. The Great Controversy, pp. 492-3 by EGW

16. Christ Object Lessons, p. 49 by EGW

17. Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, p 50 by EGW

18. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 NIV modified

19. 1 John 4:7; 1 Thessalonians 3:12

20. 1 John 4:16-17 NASB

21. John 15:4-5; Gal. 5:22-23

22. 2 Corinthians 3:18; Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 355

23. Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 305

24. Hebrews 12:11 NASB

25. Luke 8:15

26. 2T, p. 478

27. Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 384

28. James 1:12; 2:5; 1 Corinthians 2:9

29. Romans 8:28

30. Desire of Ages, p. 637 by EGW

31. Gospel Workers ‘92, p. 432 by EGW

32. John 14:14 NIV; Psalms 40:8

33. Christ Object Lessons, pp. 415-16 by EGW

[jsm]

I tried to put the above in a blog and just reference here; but I just fouled it up, and now the "Endtime Surprise" blog does not work either. Sorry.

[jsm]

Endtime Surprise is again available at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

[Dr. Rich]

Hey Stan, what an interesting post! From what I gather on what you wrote, that the most important thing for people to have is love. I would agree that love is important, but that raises a serious question as to the understanding of Revelation 21:8 and 22:15.

What happens to a person who has love but is also practicing a lie?

[jsm]

Obviously practicing known sin is not accetable with God. But consider the following; which I believe to be Bible-based:

"Every course of action has a twofold character and importance. It is virtuous or vicious, right or wrong, according to the motive which prompts it. A wrong action, by frequent repetition, leaves a permanent impression upon the mind of the actor, and also on the minds of those who are connected with him in any relation, either spiritual or temporal." EGW in RH 5/17/1898.

The Bible clearly teaches the importance of right motives; and the one who knows what to do and does not do it is sinning. Romans 13:8-10; James 4:17.

[Musicman1228]

Will there not come a time (as these last events unfold) when there will be no unknown sin, where ALL sin in a person's life will be exposed? If that is the case then anyone that has not gone through the process of sanctification and removed that sin from their lives will be left 'holding the bag' of sin, as it were.

A person that dies with unknown sin in them will be blessed with the right to eat of the Tree of Life when they are resurrected in the first resurrection; this because of the grace of Jesus Christ. No one that harbors sin, that lives to see the Great Tribulation, will have the opportunity for eternal life unless those sins are confessed and have been gotten rid of. Grace does not 'cover' these people. God abhors sin while at the same time loving the sinner. Yet His love can only go as far as the individual will let Him go. We demonstrate our love for God in our obedience to His Commandments.

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. Rev. 22:12.

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Rev . 22:14-15.

[jsm]

I believe the time is coming when all will have been given enough information to make a clear choice. Matthew 24:14.

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea." Habakkuk 2:14 and Isaiah 11:9.

That "glory" is revealed to us in a special way through Christ, and is "full of grace and truth." John 1:14; 17:22-23. We become changed into His likeness more and more through the working of the Holy Spirit, as we focus our thoughts on Him.

And that process must be taking place now in all who hope to be a part of the 144,000, who will be "without fault." Revelation 14:5.

[Christopher]

Chris, I notice you are in Alaska. I fished in Bristol Bay while going to college; and my wife was born there the first winter after her parents arrived from the States. We met at WWC.

An added note:

Please remember to read: http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

Hi jsm thanks for the ref's yep in Anchorage and alska as a whole for near on 2 decades,love it here.

My comments were based on my reading of endtimesurprise,sorry that didn't come across totally.

Really liked this other one you couldn't put up on a blog :)and certainly agree that the motive for any action should be Love and from Love who is God.

I don't speculate on the 144,000 because i don't believe that we can know any more about them except that we know there motives will be Pure Love. Read somewhere when i first became an Seventh-day Adventist from EGW that specuating further on that point is useless. Hopefully one day can find that quote again,Might have been GC but i was also reading testimonies to ministers alot back then. (94).

The reason i wonder about rev.10 and the little scroll and the thunders, is that while john didn't write them down he was told to seal it up? that doesn't make sense to me so is a big flag to me :)plus at that time and assuming it was for the endtime the 7 thunders did speak. And so are we supposed to hear them in these last days?

some questions i ask. What did they say? What could they say?

To my belief they would have to speak something about/of God that we haven't got a handle on yet,so i ask what that could be.Also is it related or part of what the little scroll has to say/read? would it or does it constitute the "shaking" of God's people.

What do we think the shaking is supposed to be? Just Satan attacking us? or will it be something about God that shakes us up from our slumber and rocks our foundations(but doesn't crumble or destroy them)and since i believe it has to be about God,what could that be?

as to the seven trumpets and such to me they would be cumulative natural effects of sin upon the world coming and from the Holy Spirit leaving/being withdrawn/being rejected by peoples. and the final blasts are God's wrath as defined by Romans 1.

I think we see the build up today more and more,we can see what global warming/warning is doing and going to do to us and this world,not hard to see at all,also how that and other things relate to the prophecies of the bible and any scriptures.

plus i believe since the trumpets and such will take everyone by surprise we can most probably take all the numbers of years as to when the Global warming stuff will happen and half them if not more each year i read how the scientists are so surprised at how fast things are happening :)aka falling apart:(

Thankfully Jesus will come and save us before all life is wiped out here on earth.:)

[jsm]

John wrote as much about the sixth trumpet period as he did about all the rest combined; so this will be a very important period, and deserves special study. The sealed words of the seven thunders will be understood as we aproach that period of time; but there is much that will take place before that time.

I agree that many of the events described in the times of the seals and trumpets will be cumulative.

This certainly applies to the following seals events:

First seal. The spread of the gospel will continue until the close of probation.

Second seal. Daniel 11:40-12:1 makes it evident that war will not cease until Jesus comes.

Third & fourth seals. With war comes famine and pestilence.

Fifth seal. Notice how EGW describes this as following after the prior seals: "I saw the sword, famine, pestilence, and great confusion in the land. The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed." EW 33. This torment and killing of God's people will continue, as stated in Revelation 13:15 and 14:13. Massive numbers may very well be involved -- as in Revelation 7:9, 14.

[Dr. Rich]

As an outdoorsman, I would love to live in Alaska and am planning on building a floating lodge to do that in the near future. Find a good place to put it.

The 7 thunders could be the seven rules for understanding prophecy as was pointed out earlier. Without these rules, it is impossible to understand the end time prophecy in a correct way. Since they have been sealed up until the end time (last generation), would not that agree with Daniel 12:10 prophecy?

Could it be possible to be filled with love for our neighbors but still reject the words and teachings of Jesus and the commandments?

[Guest]

The 7 thunders could be the seven rules for understanding prophecy as was pointed out earlier. Without these rules, it is impossible to understand the end time prophecy in a correct way.

I think I'll just stick with William Miller's rules, and EGW. But thanks anyway.

Makes me wonder how in the world SDAs ever got by for 160 years without you guys.

I guess God was just keeping us afloat with our errors until you guys could come on the scene, and show us how to REALLY read the scripture. What to read in, and what to read out. And which parts to throw away.

[jsm]

There is no time given as to when words of the ssven thunders will be unsealed. And I agree with Richard that it is better not to speculate on this now.

[jsm]

A list comparable to Revelation 21:8 & 22:15 is given in Galatians 5:19-21 and called “the works of the flesh,” and says “those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Then LOVE and other attributes of “the fruit of the Spirit” are listed in verses 22-23, and says there is “no law” against actions so motivated.

This is comparable to the EGW statement that "Every course of action has a twofold character and importance. It is virtuous or vicious, right or wrong, according to the motive which prompts it.” EGW in RH 5/17/1898.

I cannot feature a person practicing the evil “works of the flesh” and still claiming to be fully motivated by the love of God.. They are in direct opposition to each other.

There are also Bible teachings that can only be understood by reading or hearing about them. This includes the Sabbath. And, yes, it is possible NOW for a person to be motivated by love and not keep the 7th-day Sabbath. But that will change as the contest between good and evil reaches an end-time climax, and people are fully informed -- as in Revelation 18:4.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Tell me, was knowledge increased at the time of the Reformation?—when doctors had no concept of germs and their procedure of choice was to bleed the patient and prescribe ‘booze’ – for themselves... Fast forward, it was only recently that I pointed out on these boards that EGW, for all practical purposes, found it necessary that a horse be hitched to buggy so that she might “run to and fro”. Yet it was/is asserted that the book of Daniel was ‘unsealed’ – yielding very peculiar ‘readings’.[ed.jasd]

>>The context of Daniel's referencce to an increase in knowledge doesn't have primarily to do with general knowledge but with knowledge of the book of Daniel and the prophecies.<<

“The context”, as you’ve put it, is self-explicative; it is to the time of the end (Dan 12:4) – which same time is identified by events contiguous to it; that is, [at which time]

“...many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”

One can hardly propose that “the time of the end” began in the second century AD – at which time the early fathers first began to ‘exposit’ the book of Daniel. From the earliest attempts to ‘wrest’ the book of Daniel most expositions thereafter fairly ‘tracked’ each other re the 9th chapter. Any divergence by the Org from that developed over the past several millennia is just barely noticeable.

The .Org first ‘developed’ their dogmas and doctrines re the book of Daniel nigh on two centuries ago. The passing of the better part of two centuries since the year AD 1844 does not argue well for a reading of the book of Daniel allowing its unsealing.

The fact that so much contained in the book of Daniel has been prematurely ‘interpreted’ bears witness to the fact that that used to proselytize is simply – wrongly exposited and defies the very proscription of Gd, “...seal the book, [even] to the time of the end:” ...

>>This knowledge certainly saw a dramatic increase in the early and middle 1800s and it has continued right up to our day.<<

I’ve listened to such as Lyle Albrecht articulate the same; that is, ‘knowledge is increased’ through the specific study and resultant understanding of the scroll of Daniel with the back and forth rolling and unrolling of the scroll of Daniel – fulfilling the required “men shall run to and fro”.

I find it scarcely standing to reason that it can be suggested – that a book Gd sealed could be expounded upon with a ‘back and forth’ before its unsealing/end of time – whilst even its very author lacked specific understanding of its prophecies. Not surprising, since:

Dan 12:9 ...for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

>>In the days of the Reformation, they had little interest or knowledge of the books of Daniel and Revelation. In fact, Martin Luther and John Calvin didn't consider them important. Luther didn't accept Revelation as part of the canon, and Calvin admitted he didn't understand it, and therefore he wrote nothing about it in his commentaries on the Bible.<<

Okay, I’ll stipulate to your view re Luther and Calvin; however, we are still left with the record of early Xtian fathers wresting the book of Daniel – from such as Tertullian, Clement, Eusibius, Jerome, [stipulated re Reformationist Protestors] to Sir Isaac Newton, and a subsequent fast forward to the .Org, which, in large part, echoes the aforementioned expositors, as well innumerable others of antiquity...

[jasd]

>>The fact that Ellen White used a horse is irrelevant to the topic.<<

Oh, non! non! John317, it is most of mostest relevant!—for it manifests the fact that she lived before the “time of the end” and before “knowledge was increased and men ran to and fro”. The inescapable denouement re her writings is: she, on the face of it, wrested with the best of the Wrestors!—moreover, those same wrestings are accepted as...

ex cathedra!—from the chair, as it were...

Further, she concurred with the non-distinction of the refurbishment of the Temple and the rebuilding of the City Jerusalem... The correct reading of scripture yields the fact that

the Seventy-weeks could not have begun its count until the year 445 BC, rather than the year 457 BC – per Daniel 9:25. I repeat, AD 1844 is a non-Biblical number and a non-prophetic year. To cling to and to keep reiterating as verity such questionable exegesis as that developed by the .Org re Daniel 9 – renders much else suspect that has been developed by the .Org.

>>The phrase in Daniel about running to and fro has really to do with people being busy to understand the book of Daniel.<<

Sir Isaac Newton was very busy to understand the book of Daniel – ‘bout the 17th century; that, however, could not in any way be construed as the “time of the end” or “running to and fro”.

>>I do, believe, though, that in a secondary sense, those verses also indicate that there will be a great increase in general knowledge...<<

Indeed, even to thinking to change literal times and physical laws...

>>...and in world travel at the time of the end.<<

To the moon! –Gleason

>>The increase in knowledge began happening during the Renaissance and continued on into the Age of Enlightenment.<<

Daniel required that two identifiers re “the time of the end” – manifest together. It cannot be conceivably advanced that the Ages Renaissance and Enlightenment were the “time of the end”.

>>We are still a part of, and greatly influenced by, those periods. But the point is that one does not need to be only alive at the time these developments were at that apex in order to experience the benefit of the knowledge of the prophecies. All along the way, various people who were open to the leading of the Spirit of God gained more and more insight into the prophecies.<<

Were that so, then Gd’s imperative to seal the book was pointless. John317, the book was sealed, period, full stop.

>>Ellen White was certainly one of these, despite the fact that she depended on a horse for transportation.<<

The argument ‘knowledge by study’ is at best evanescent – given that Gd commanded that the book of Daniel be sealed. The question of when “knowledge is increased” is contingent upon that other factor – that is, that of “running to and fro”, which is hardly done with either mare’s shank or horse and buggy. Anyway,

unless the argument can be made that the passage of almost two centuries is somehow still parcel to "the time of the end", EGW’s epistemology re Daniel 9 becomes less and less relevant – as time passes...

with the .Org’s constant resort to year AD 1844 lending more and more to the idea of rote as exegesis, rather than a diligent dependence upon Holy Writ.

[Dr. Rich]

But IF the have been unsealed and IF this is the last generation, then it would be important to know--right?

[jsm]

"But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9.

========================

"THOSE WHO BELONG TO 'THIS GENERATION,' WHICH 'SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED,' MUST MEET AN ISSUE WHICH INVOLVES STRONG TEMPTATIONS." EGW in RH 5/4/1911.

[jsm]

"Jesus, looking down to THE LAST GENERATION, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of His government in heaven and earth." GC 22.

"The antediluvian world rejected the warning words of him who walked with God [Enoch]. So will THE LAST GENERATION make light of the warnings of the Lord's messengers." PP 86.

"We are living in the last days, and THE GENERATION THAT IS TO WITNESS THE FINAL DESTRUCTION has not been left without warning of the hastening judgments of God. Says the apostle, 'I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. . . . And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.' [Revelaation 18:1-5]." EGW in RH 11/5/1889.

[John317]

Quote:

jsm: As with many events in the Bible and in our world today, we should recognize Christ coming as a thief can apply to several situations.

EXAMPLES:

1. Start of the investigative jugment in 1844. Revelation 3:4; Daniel 7:13.

2. Judgment of the living as individuals. Matthew 24:40-44.

2. The final close of probation for all. Matthew 25:13.

3. The end-time day of the Lord, which begins just before probation closes and continues through the 7 last plagues. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6; 2 Peter 3:10; Luke 21:34.

4.The second coming of Christ. Revelation 16:15.

There's a very real sense in which Christ comes as a thief when we fall asleep in Christ. For that is when our individual probation closes, and our case is decided on the basis of our life up to that moment. The next instant we will be aware of either waking up at the Second Coming at which time we will receive the gift of immortality or at the end of the one thousand years when the lost will be judged and sentenced to eternal death.

I pray that everyone here will be among the first group. Think what it would be like to wake up on the wrong side of the thousand years and to realize you're shut out from God for eternity.

Quote:

jsm:

SEVENTH TRUMPET has not yet sounded:

"The kingdoms of this world have not yet become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ." EGW in Special Testimonies on Education, p. 131. See Revelation 11:15.

This same quote is also found in Counsels to Teachers 414-415. Compare also GC 301 and COL 77.

The seventh angel marks the beginning of the third woe and the end of the perenthesis between the sixth and seventh trumpets. SDAs date the beginning of the sounding of the 7th trumpet as 1844. Evidently the 7th trumpet begins to sound a period of time before the voice is heard saying that Christ has begun to reign over the kingdom of this world. If we wait until Christ actually begins to reign before we're prepared for Christ's coming, it will be too late, because human probation will end just prior to the beginning of Christ's reign.

We are now living under the third woe when God is giving warning of the impending 7th trumpet. The voice saying, "The kingdom of this world has become the kingdoms of Our Lord," occurs at the same time that Daniel 7: 14 is fulfilled. I understand this to occur at the end of the Investigative Judgment when Christ receives the kingdom and soon thereafter returns for His church.

The second woe of v. 14 are the judgments under the sixth trumpet, which ended in 1840. The third woe are the events portrayed under the seventh trumpet (vs. 15-19). Who can deny that we are living at the time when the nations are angry? When did this begin? It can be dated from about 1840. Search your history books for a list of the wars, and there you will find evidence of a dramatic, even an astonishing, increase in the wars since about 1840 up to our time. Compare also Joel 3: 9-16; EW 36, 85-86; 280-281; 1 SM 221-222; 6 T 14; 9 T 26-27; TM 182-183.