Mom E Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Christians ARE spiritual Jews. How can we be closer to Muslims than to Jews spiritually? What do you mean that we're "spiritual Jews"?? I'm not sure I clearly understand the meaning of that... I didn't say we're closer spiritually, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I ... don't entirely buy the argument that Muslims are somehow discriminated against in the West and that Islam is really a religion that does not believe in violence. WGJ's comment to the effect that all religions have a violent element to them is disingenious. I have known several people who have lived in Islamic countries or cultures (like the Phillipines) and they would laugh anyone who postulated that idea to them out of town. Anyone who believes in the rule of Sharia(??) law cannot, by definition, be said to reject violence. Still,the real question is how can we reach those, in that culture, for Christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: karl Christians ARE spiritual Jews. How can we be closer to Muslims than to Jews spiritually? What do you mean that we're "spiritual Jews"?? I'm not sure I clearly understand the meaning of that... I didn't say we're closer spiritually, either... OK, religiously or theologically Jews, then. Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe , though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Hmmmm... All those same things could be said of Muslims.... at least in a sense... They are Abraham's seed - children of a promise. They are of the circumcision... So are we also spiritual Muslims?? I personally don't prefer that term... just saying... When I say we're theologically closer to Muslims, I'm talking about things like our 28 fundamentals, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 When I say we're theologically closer to Muslims, I'm talking about things like our 28 fundamentals, etc... Can you outline exactly which of the 28 fundamentals the Muslims are closer to us than the Jews are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Within Islam, there are many branches of belief, so you may not find this to be true for EVERY Muslim you meet, but in general... Muslims believe in both the Old and New Testament, and quote them in their services. They believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he healed the blind and lepers and raised the dead. They believe he is now with God in heaven - in fact, that he is nearest to God in an intercessory sense. They also believe that he will return from heaven on the Day of Judgment. At the moment, I can't think of any beliefs besides the Sabbath that Jews hold that Muslims don't also hold... And (though I will NOT take time to detail it here), if you look at the original Quranic text, without the baggage of traditions, you can find at least 27 of our beliefs supported... This gives us great material to start with as we share with them. The Quran itself refers to the Bible with great respect in many places and tells believers to read it for greater understand (my paraphrase). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Within Islam, there are many branches of belief, so you may not find this to be true for EVERY Muslim you meet, but in general...Muslims believe in both the Old and New Testament, and quote them in their services. They believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he healed the blind and lepers and raised the dead. They believe he is now with God in heaven - in fact, that he is nearest to God in an intercessory sense. They also believe that he will return from heaven on the Day of Judgment. At the moment, I can't think of any beliefs besides the Sabbath that Jews hold that Muslims don't also hold... And (though I will NOT take time to detail it here), if you look at the original Quranic text, without the baggage of traditions, you can find at least 27 of our beliefs supported... This gives us great material to start with as we share with them. The Quran itself refers to the Bible with great respect in many places and tells believers to read it for greater understand (my paraphrase). Cool! Thanks for this, Esther. It is good to know about these points for conversation starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 I have had a few well educated Muslims as friends over the years and the questions you present are what I was faced with too. I asked them if Mohammad believed that Jesus was a true prophet and they said yes. I then asked them if a true prophet would lie and they said no. I then presented them with the problem of what Jesus said who He was, and if Jesus was not the Son of God, then He would have been lying. I did not push the issue, but it did cause some consternation for a while. And thanks John317 for your post. I really enjoyed it. You're very welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. I'm personally very interested in the Koran and Islam. Our family has been close friends for the last 20 years with a muslim family from Afghanistan who lived in an apartment above ours in Loma Linda. The father was jailed for almost two years soon after 9/11, but he said he was well-treated. During the Soviet occupation he and his family escaped over the mountains to Pakistan. The Koran, as you probably know, does say that Jesus was a prophet, but it says he was only a servant of Allah, and that anyone who says Allah had a son is a liar. It's hard deal with Muslims on this question because they're told that the Bible has been changed so they can't believe everything it says. (I'm afraid some of your ideas about the NT would only confirm them in their view that the Bible can't be trusted.) The Koran encourages them to read the Bible, but it's rare for Muslims to read it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 Quote: Esther: ....Muslims believe in both the Old and New Testament, and quote them in their services. They believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he healed the blind and lepers and raised the dead. They believe he is now with God in heaven - in fact, that he is nearest to God in an intercessory sense. They also believe that he will return from heaven on the Day of Judgment. And (though I will NOT take time to detail it here), if you look at the original Quranic text, without the baggage of traditions, you can find at least 27 of our beliefs supported... This gives us great material to start with as we share with them. The Quran itself refers to the Bible with great respect in many places and tells believers to read it for greater understand (my paraphrase). Here's a few places where the Koran and the Bible differ: The Koran teaches clearly that Jesus did not die on the cross but that it was someone else who died. It says that Jesus didn't die for our sins. Allah forgives sins without the shedding of blood. According to it, there was no need for Christ to die on the cross to atone for our sins. It says Jesus was a only a man and a servant of Allah, and that Muhammed was a greater prophet than Jesus. It denies Christ's deity. It teaches that it is blasphemy to equate Christ with God. It speaks of the Sabbath as being only for the Jews. It doesn't say non-Jews should keep the Sabbath. It says Jesus will come back at the judgment day but then it says that Jesus will die and be resurrected by Allah at some time in the future. (The Koran, however, calls Jesus "the word of God," and says Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth. But according to it, Jesus spoke like an adult when He was only an infant. It also says Jesus performed many miracles and that he is alive today.) Muslims are taught (tho' NOT by the Koran) that the Bible has been corrupted, so they don't believe much that it says, particularly the New Testament. The Koran actually gives Muslims permission to seek out "people of the book" to learn from them about the Bible. Satan is not an angel but a jinn (Surah 18: 50). It teaches that Isaac was not the son of promise but that Ishmael was. It was Ishmael who was almost sacrificed by Abraham. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Here's a few places where the Koran and the Bible differ: The Koran teaches clearly that Jesus did not die on the cross but that it was someone else who died. It says that Jesus didn't die for our sins. Allah forgives sins without the shedding of blood. According to it, there was no need for Christ to die on the cross to atone for our sins. It says Jesus was a only a man and a servant of Allah, and that Muhammed was a greater prophet than Jesus. It denies Christ's deity. It teaches that it is blasphemy to equate Christ with God. It speaks of the Sabbath as being only for the Jews. It doesn't say non-Jews should keep the Sabbath. It says Jesus will come back at the judgment day but then it says that Jesus will die and be resurrected by Allah at some time in the future. (The Koran, however, calls Jesus "the word of God," and says Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth. But according to it, Jesus spoke like an adult when He was only an infant. It also says Jesus performed many miracles and that he is alive today.) Muslims are taught (tho' NOT by the Koran) that the Bible has been corrupted, so they don't believe much that it says, particularly the New Testament. The Koran actually gives Muslims permission to seek out "people of the book" to learn from them about the Bible. Satan is not an angel but a jinn (Surah 18: 50). It teaches that Isaac was not the son of promise but that Ishmael was. It was Ishmael who was almost sacrificed by Abraham. I would like to gently disagree with many of your statements here. I do NOT believe that the Quran is inspired in the sense of other inspiration we Adventists all hold in common. But I find there are many gems of truth in it that can be held up to the Light and be set in their proper settings! Most of what you have stated above is how Muslims interpret the Quran - and even the bias they use in translating it to English. But in the original language, and even with a more careful reading of the English translations (there are over 80 of them), it's also very easy to interpret it differently. Just as one example... The Quran tells the story of Abraham sacrificing (nearly) his son. The interesting thing is that for the entire length of the recital of the story, there is not one mention of the name of that son (though there is information about Ishmael after the story). And even then, the verse at the end is an AWESOME point to emphasize: Sura 37: 107 "And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice." Obviously, the ram in the thicket was not a MOMENTOUS sacrifice... so the Quran is referring to the bigger picture right here! Another - the only text (sura 4:157) that refers to the crucifixion of Jesus simply says that the Jewish leaders boasted that they killed him, but that they did not - it only looked like they did. I would agree with the Quran - I don't believe that the Jewish leaders were the main ones responsible for Jesus' death!! He did not die just by their power... Of course this verse is hotly debated in some circles... but it's not as clear a denunciation of the crucifixion as so would like to make it appear. (and it's the only text in the entire Quran which questions the crucifixion at all) I guess my point is... if we would listen to many mainstream Christians, we would come to some very different conclusions to the Bible than we do -- we have a different way of interpreting it which we feel is much more truth-filled. I see most of the statements above in the same light. Yes, that's how most mainstream Muslims interpret the text, but it can also be interpreted in a light which holds up the truths that we know. We can focus on truth or we can focus on error... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Just to throw this out here - I'm guessing a lot of people may be reading (or will read in the future) this thread who aren't commenting... If anyone is interested in more information as to how to emphasize the positive to build bridges that Muslims can walk on to further truth, I would be happy to share more information - mostly other resources you can go to. I would prefer not to post it publicly to be "debated". So just send me a private message and I'll try to give you what information/resources can be most helpful for your situation. Another thing in this whole situation... Just as in Christianity, where some study their Bibles thoroughly, and others are only cultural Christians... there is the same situation in Islam... Before you dig into religious points with a Muslim friend (be friends first, with no strings attached!), make sure you know where they're coming from in this area.... :grouphug4: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 Quote: Esther: I do NOT believe that the Quran is inspired in the sense of other inspiration we Adventists all hold in common. But I find there are many gems of truth in it that can be held up to the Light and be set in their proper settings! Who do you believe the Qur-an was inspired by? I have about 8 translations of the Koran. My favorite is a literal translation by Maulana Muhammmad Ali, which contains lots of commentary by the Muslim commentator. Another very good one is by Ahmed Ali. You may know of these. I am very interested in evangelism among the Islamic community and would never want to do or say anything to harm this effort because I know it's God work, but at the same time I believe that we as believers must have an accurate knowledge of the content and message of the Koran. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Quote: Esther: I do NOT believe that the Quran is inspired in the sense of other inspiration we Adventists all hold in common. But I find there are many gems of truth in it that can be held up to the Light and be set in their proper settings! Who do you believe the Qur-an was inspired by? I have about 8 translations of the Koran. My favorite is a literal translation by Maulana Muhammmad Ali, which contains lots of commentary by the Muslim commentator. Another very good one is by Ahmed Ali. You may know of these. I guess I'd like not to be held to one point of view. I find it hard to categorize... (I'm not hardline about it) I don't see the Quran in the category of Biblical inspiration, or even as I see EGWhite's writings - which I GREATLY appreciate. Often, I like to compare Mohammed to Luther - I see them both as men who God called to bring specific truth and light to the people around them at a specific point in time. But they didn't have all truth. But I still don't have a specific box I'm ready to put Quranic inspiration in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 I know that there's a lot of wonderful things going on among Muslims as far as their conversions to Christ is concerned, and most of this never reaches the mass media. I personally view the Koran as having been inspired by Satan but I wouldn't tell this to my Muslim friends because it would only alienate them. I think we can only work with them from their perspective, meeting them where they are, which means we have to show respect for their beliefs and respect for the Koran. I'm not surprised that the Koran has a lot of good things in it. It has some truth but it has a great deal of error, too, and it's interesting that (from my perspective) the Koran strikes at the very heart of the gospel by saying that Christ didn't die for our sins and that he wasn't the Son of God. But can't we expect that Satan wouldn't deceive people through a book that contains no truth? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Hmmm... I guess it's a matter of personal opinion... I believe Luther was inspired by God, and not by Satan, though he said many things I can't agree with (for example regarding Jews and I think also the Sabbath). I guess also the way I read the Quran... I don't see it as saying that Jesus didn't die for our sins, or that he wasn't the Son of God. I clearly understand that many if not most Muslims interpret it that way at the present time. But when looking with an unbiased view at the original text, I'm not sure that that is what Mohammad was teaching... Satan has learned well how to distort any truths of God - as we can see so clearly in the history of Christianity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 Quote: Mom E:....in the original language, and even with a more careful reading of the English translations (there are over 80 of them), it's also very easy to interpret it differently. Just as one example... The Quran tells the story of Abraham sacrificing (nearly) his son. The interesting thing is that for the entire length of the recital of the story, there is not one mention of the name of that son (though there is information about Ishmael after the story). And even then, the verse at the end is an AWESOME point to emphasize: Sura 37: 107 "And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice." Obviously, the ram in the thicket was not a MOMENTOUS sacrifice... so the Quran is referring to the bigger picture right here! You might be interested in the comment on Surah 37: 107 in the Koran translated by Maulana Muhammad Ali: "To commemorate Ishmael's sacrifice, a great sacrifice was ordered. This was not only the sacrifice of a ram on this particular occasion, but the great institution of sacrifice now connected with the pilgrimage to Makkah. Perhaps there is also a reference here to the abolition of human sacrifice, which was prevalent among most ancient nations, and the significance is that the place of human sacrifice was now forever being taken by the sacrifice of a ram." Also, this comment on v. 102: "That the child spoken of here was Ishmael and not Isaac is made clear by v. 112, which states that it was after this incident that Abraham received the news of the birth of Isaac. This, no doubt, contradicts the Bible statement, but the fact that Ishmael's descendants kept a memorial of this sacrifice in the annual pilgrimage to Makkah shows clearly that Ishmael, and not Isaac, was the son whom Abraham was commanded to sacrifice..." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 Welcome to the Forum! I'm glad you are here. Some time we will have to have some discussions just on the Koran and what it teaches. I'd be interested in what the translations you use say. Do you have a favorite or perhaps several favorite translations of the Koran? Do you read Arabic by any chance? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 You might be interested in the comment on Surah 37: 107 in the Koran translated by Maulana Muhammad Ali: "To commemorate Ishmael's sacrifice, a great sacrifice was ordered. This was not only the sacrifice of a ram on this particular occasion, but the great institution of sacrifice now connected with the pilgrimage to Makkah. Perhaps there is also a reference here to the abolition of human sacrifice, which was prevalent among most ancient nations, and the significance is that the place of human sacrifice was now forever being taken by the sacrifice of a ram." Also, this comment on v. 102: "That the child spoken of here was Ishmael and not Isaac is made clear by v. 112, which states that it was after this incident that Abraham received the news of the birth of Isaac. This, no doubt, contradicts the Bible statement, but the fact that Ishmael's descendants kept a memorial of this sacrifice in the annual pilgrimage to Makkah shows clearly that Ishmael, and not Isaac, was the son whom Abraham was commanded to sacrifice..." Yes, I'm quite familiar with the common Muslim interpretation of this verse... Just as I'm quite familiar with the common Christian interpretation of texts regarding the Sabbath, state of the dead, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2010 These are a couple of paragraphs from the book, A Biblical Point of View on Islam, by Kerry Anderson: "When Muhammad was 40 years of age, he had a vision. Sometimes he would retire to a cave on Mount Hira (outside Mecca) for relaxation. In 610, he claimed to have receiged a vision from the angel Gabriel during the month of Ramadan. At first he wondered about its source, but his wife Khadijah (and others) believed he was a prophet. After this first revelation, Muhammad did not receive another for nearly three years. During this time, he became despondent and doubted whether Allah was pleased with his conduct. "But then additional revelations came to him, and did so until his death. Thse messages were later compiled and recorded in the Qur'an. Over time, some of these revelations became more unusual. He claimed to speak to the dead and even prayed for the dead at one cemetary. He also received revelations from both Allah and Satan. Perhaps the most famous of these are the so-called Satanic Verses." pp. 10, 11. This information can be found in Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1955), 106. Also al-Bukhari, vol. 6, book 65, no. 4953. Does any of this information conflict with what you know and understand from your study? I would appreciate it if you would list a few books or sources that you believe give reliable information on the history of Islam and of their beliefs. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Welcome to the Forum! I'm glad you are here. Some time we will have to have some discussions just on the Koran and what it teaches. I'd be interested in what the translations you use say. Do you have a favorite or perhaps several favorite translations of the Koran? Do you read Arabic by any chance? I'm not sure if this is a general question to everyone, or more specifically to me. (I think I've been a Forum member just a bit longer than you have. :smilewink:) I'm not a deep Quran student - but I've "sat at the feet" of some... I'm a very beginner Arabic learner - cannot read yet. But again, I have close acquaintances that are experts - even recognized as such by governments... And these friends are deep Christians who want to share a full understanding of Christ with Muslims... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Does any of this information conflict with what you know and understand from your study? I would appreciate it if you would list a few books or sources that you believe give reliable information on the history of Islam and of their beliefs. I really cannot make a clear judgment call on your quote. It's very clear to me that it depends a lot on your bias as to how you look at history and even current things... For example, I think many of us have seen Jeremiah Films' presentations on Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses - and we think they are probably accurate... But have you viewed the one they did on Adventists?? Would you find it to be accurate??? (I think not...) So what is the truth?? I'm not huge into history of any kind (in school, I was much more into science and practical arts than literature and history). But I'll see if I can get a short list of some books that others recommend that tend to seem to be more accurate - and judged so by both Christians and Muslims... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2010 Quote: John317: Welcome to the Forum! I'm glad you are here. Some time we will have to have some discussions just on the Koran and what it teaches. I'd be interested in what the translations you use say. Do you have a favorite or perhaps several favorite translations of the Koran? Do you read Arabic by any chance? Quote: Mom E: I'm not sure if this is a general question to everyone, or more specifically to me. (I think I've been a Forum member just a bit longer than you have. :smilewink:) Yes, I did mean it just for you, really. I didn't know you had been a member here long. I noticed it said your had posted about 70 times. I didn't notice before the time of your registration. Hope you keep coming back for more! In any case, my belated welcome still stands!! Quote: I'm not a deep Quran student - but I've "sat at the feet" of some... I'm a very beginner Arabic learner - cannot read yet. But again, I have close acquaintances that are experts - even recognized as such by governments... And these friends are deep Christians who want to share a full understanding of Christ with Muslims... That's wonderful. I sincerely pray God will bless you in your efforts to help Muslims know Christ. I'm sure He already is blessing. I have the name of a Muslim teacher at a local place of worship where our friends go, and I'm planning on studying Islam with him. His name was given to me by the oldest boy in the family. When he was a kid of about 10, I used to help him with his math, and as he grew up, a bunch of SDA doctors paid for his tuition to study at La Sierra University. He graduated and now is studying to be a physician's assistent at Loma Linda U. Medical Center. He's a very nice young man of 27 now. He used to tell me when he was young that he wanted to be a Muslim cleric. His problem is that he is not legal to work in this country yet. His parents only became legal residents a couple of years ago. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom E Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Yes, I did mean it just for you, really. I didn't know you had been a member here long. I noticed it said your had posted about 70 times. I didn't notice before the time of your registration. Hope you keep coming back for more! In any case, my belated welcome still stands!! .... I have the name of a Muslim teacher at a local place of worship where our friends go, and I'm planning on studying Islam with him. His name was given to me by the oldest boy in the family. When he was a kid of about 10, I used to help him with his math, and as he grew up, a bunch of SDA doctors paid for his tuition to study at La Sierra University. He graduated and now is studying to be a physician's assistant at Loma Linda U. Medical Center. He's a very nice young man of 27 now. He used to tell me when he was young that he wanted to be a Muslim cleric. His problem is that he is not legal to work in this country yet. His parents only became legal residents a couple of years ago. Thanks!!! I very much appreciate the congenial tone! I don't want to debate, but I like to share another viewpoint if I can do so without too many feathers being ruffled... I think your longer story is referring to the eldest son, not the local imam, right? You'll learn some interesting things when you study Islam! You'll probably want to be clear as to your intent from the beginning. Most likely, he'll be first to point out the differences...but sometimes it's more helpful in the long run to point out the commonalities. I've never known of someone being converted by a debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2010 Most of my family moved from California and are now living not far from you, in eastern TN, near Chattanooga. In fact, if you turn right instead of left at the wrong place, you will end up in about 10 minutes in Georgia. The Ocoee River runs very close to their property. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2010 Quote: Mom E: I think your longer story is referring to the eldest son, not the local imam, right? You'll learn some interesting things when you study Islam! You'll probably want to be clear as to your intent from the beginning. Most likely, he'll be first to point out the differences...but sometimes it's more helpful in the long run to point out the commonalities. I've never known of someone being converted by a debate... Yes, I was talking about the eldest son in the family. I asked him to explain the Qur'an to me, but he referred me to his teacher, or imam. I think the son feels he doesn't know enough to study it with me. My only reason for studying it at this time is to learn their beliefs. (I'm not sure if they're sunni or shiite.) I probably won't even talk about my own personal beliefs. I'll let him know my intentions are simply to understand their beliefs. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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