The most abusive Christian phrase ...

[Woody]

" you didn't have enough faith."

I was told this when my wife had a miscarriage.

I was told this when I didn't get healed physically.

I was told this when I had depression.

I was told this when I lost my job.

And I'm getting tired of hearing it.

Anyone else?

[Dr. Shane]

Sounds like you and Job have the same kind of friends.

[phkrause]

I would say many have these kind of friends, and would say we've probably all had these thoughts at one time or another.

pk

[SivartM]

And, of course, I'm sure they have so much faith that they're God's favorites and nothing bad ever happens to them.

[olger]

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

oG

[Tom Wetmore]

Maybe there is such a thing as too much faith...

[Woody]

Maybe there is such a thing as too much faith...

Amen Tom. You've hit the nail on the head. Exactly. And it is a problem with many Christians ... not just SDAs.

[olger]

"And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith" (Deut 32:20).

"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" (Habb 2:4)

"Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"

"When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel" (Matthew 8:10).

"If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?" (Luke 12:28).

"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

"And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people."

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

"Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong."

"Rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness" (Col. 2:7).

"Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith"

"We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth."

"And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil."

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works."

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Wishing you a faithful day,

oG

[Dr. Shane]

I think that is one of the great blessings of hanging out in 12 Step groups. I've got friends in low places and they rarely tell me I don't have enough faith.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So are you still being told this? If not, why bring it up? If you are, huh.

[Bravus]

Maybe I'm being obtuse, and maybe he can clarify, but olger's posts in this thread seem to be telling Woody (and the rest of us) the same thing...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You're being obtuse. Olger isn't answering Redwood' question.

But this forum seems to be full of obtusinuity...especially lately.

[Bravus]

Is it not a logical assumption that a post in a thread is on the topic of the thread? Anyway, will wait to hear from olger, I guess.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is it not a logical assumption that a post in a thread is on the topic of the thread? Anyway, will wait to hear from olger, I guess.

ewaye, my little omelet

[abelisle]

Sad but true - faith is the only thing of permanence we as Christians can hold onto. Nothing else in our belief system can be proved beyond a doubt but our faith cannot be denied.

So why do we want to use it as a convenient scapegoat for things not going the way we think they should? Probably it's because we cannot reconcile the ways of God to man as Milton so eloquently attempted to do in Paradise Lost and Job in his existential angst also queries in regard to God's doings.

Faith is what makes religion work. It surely isn't being rewarded for every time our prayers are answered. When bad things happen, it's not because of a lack of faith. It's because God allows them to happen - faith or no faith.

Alex (keep the faith - it's the only surety you have)

[olger]

A) Obtuse sir.

Biblical light on the suggestion that one can have too much faith.

C) Blessings and faith to you,

oG

[karl]

" you didn't have enough faith."

I was told this when my wife had a miscarriage.

I was told this when I didn't get healed physically.

I was told this when I had depression.

I was told this when I lost my job.

And I'm getting tired of hearing it.

Faith is the evidence of things NOT seen. Nobody can tell you that you didn't have enough faith based on visible outcomes.

Tell them to go fish.

Fishing is a faith adventure. Whether you catch any or not, you have faith or you wouldn't do it. (Well, that is, unless there's significant beer drinking involved.)

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

Maybe there is such a thing as too much faith...

Amen Tom. You've hit the nail on the head. Exactly. And it is a problem with many Christians ... not just SDAs.

I've heard it said, "We're all equal in God's eyes." True/false?

[LifeHiscost]

Wishing you a faithful day,

oG

Today is a very faithful day for me.It isn't the day I'm concerned about. It's me. Although after what I've heard about Woody from all his faithful friends, I'm beginning to worry about him.

[Woody]

have no fear ... it shows a lack of faith. :)

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

Maybe there is such a thing as too much faith...

Amen Tom. You've hit the nail on the head. Exactly. And it is a problem with many Christians ... not just SDAs.

There is no such thing as too much faith. Presumption is the problem you're dealing with from these people, and presumption is not faith. Real faith realizes that God knows what is best, and trusts Him even when things go wrong. Real faith knows that God has never promised to spare us from all suffering in this life, and that the suffering we go through is part of the refining process by which he makes us ready for His kingdom.

And maybe having to deal with this kind of hurtful comment is part of the refining process. You are taking it personally, and letting it offend you that someone is judging you. But they are the ignorant ones, who do not know God's ways. They are the ones who need to learn what true faith is. They are the ones who actually have an inferior experience. Instead of getting offended at their criticism, you should feel pity for their ignorance, and pray that God will lead them to a better understanding.

Always pray. God is more than willing to deal with these things for us, but we have to ask. Talk to Him about it. He will give you comfort, and patience.

And I hope and pray that I will remember what I just posted here, the next time someone criticizes MY faith. Or at the very least, that God will bring it to mind before I waste too much energy fretting over being judged.

[Woody]

thanks. will do.

[LifeHiscost]

have no fear ... it shows a lack of faith.

True.

On a more serious note, one of the most stablizing truths I've found is that when I put my life In Jesus' hands, nothing that transpires in or around it is ever wasted, but He uses it to make me into what will eventually be all He desires it to be. The only thing that slows the process down is my questioning whether He's is sure the event or circumstance is really necessary.

Praise God for His faith, which is never too much.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, "

Ephesians 2:8 NKJV

Notice the past tense in reference. Now it is up to us to continue to claim that promise by the faith we have been given.

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:2 KJV

[GreatLakesGramma]

Another thought on this has come to mind. We know that the time is coming when all who remain faithful to God will be persecuted. Some will be arrested and tried before judges. Since, according to our understanding, the persecuting power is a religious one, we can be very sure that if we are among that group, our faith will be challenged in court.

Human nature rises up against such criticism and wants to fight it. But what did Jesus do in the same situation? He remained silent. He did not answer those who accused Him by so much as a single word. In the same situation, we must follow His example. If we can't handle criticism of our faith from fellow Christians now, why should we think we will be able to handle it properly then?

I firmly believe that the troubles we are going through in these times are in preparation for that time. Just like muscles, faith strengthens through exercise. Learning to handle criticism from misguided fellow believers is just what we need to prepare for that time when our faith will be questioned and condemned in court. So maybe we should be thanking God for the exercise, instead of feeling impatient over it.

[Tom Wetmore]

Presumption in a way seems a matter of too much faith to me - a taking faith to absurd and unreasonable or irresponsible levels that are totally unwarranted.

But I also had in mind the old saying about being so heavenly minded that one is no earthly good. It's a matter of all faith and no action... You know, "faith without works is dead." Too much faith, resting on faith alone, not enough effort acting on the faith, not stepping out in faith. All talk and no action.

To me, faith is all about trust.