The most abusive Christian phrase ...

[Woody]

I read you loud and clear Tom :)

[LifeHiscost]

Human nature rises up against such criticism and wants to fight it. But what did Jesus do in the same situation? He remained silent. He did not answer those who accused Him by so much as a single word. In the same situation, we must follow His example. If we can't handle criticism of our faith from fellow Christians now, why should we think we will be able to handle it properly then?

I firmly believe that the troubles we are going through in these times are in preparation for that time. Just like muscles, faith strengthens through exercise. Learning to handle criticism from misguided fellow believers is just what we need to prepare for that time when our faith will be questioned and condemned in court. So maybe we should be thanking God for the exercise, instead of feeling impatient over it.

Are you suggesting that this forum is a good place to stretch those muscles of faith? If you are, I'm with you.

OTOH, since there are so many who view this forum, it seems often good to open an opposing view from the Word lest those who are possible candidates for the love Jesus offers, be led to believe we (SDA and other Christians) accept the opposition as God's weakness.

[Dr. Rich]

YES--let's all be just like Jesus as found in Matthew 23:13-33 especially verse 33 and John 2:15 and Mark 11:15!

[LifeHiscost]

YES--let's all be just like Jesus as found in Matthew 23:13-33 especially verse 33 and John 2:15 and Mark 11:15!

I'm just wondering if the first scriptures you see as something you need or others need. I've heard it said, the sins we see the most clearly in others are the ones we're so familiar with ourselves.

As to the last two Scriptures, it would seem to me a person who would presume to take those actions toward others would have to be fully confident his/her gift of discernment were without flaw

lest this be their end.

"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Matthew 7:23 NKJV

Regards!!

[GreatLakesGramma]

Are you suggesting that this forum is a good place to stretch those muscles of faith? If you are, I'm with you.

OTOH, since there are so many who view this forum, it seems often good to open an opposing view from the Word lest those who are possible candidates for the love Jesus offers, be led to believe we (SDA and other Christians) accept the opposition as God's weakness.

I wasn't thinking of this forum at all, and I wasn't talking about opposing viewpoints, but about how we react to personal accusations and attacks. It still fits, even on this forum. When falsely accused, and people already have their minds made up, trying to answer their arguments only gives them more ammunition to twist and use against you. It only makes you look worse. The one who comes off as most believable is the one who knows when to remain silent.

[cardw]

"And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith" (Deut 32:20).

"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" (Habb 2:4)

etc., etc....

I think people would give this more credibility if having faith actually worked.

This is the old con of, "If things go good then it must be god; if things go bad then it's your fault."

[LifeHiscost]

The one who comes off as most believable is the one who knows when to remain silent.

I would agree with that as an agreement with the Word.

"They hate him who reproves in the gate,

And they abhor him who speaks with integrity.

Therefore because you impose heavy rent on the poor

And exact a tribute of grain from them,

Though you have built houses of well-hewn stone,

Yet you will not live in them;

You have planted pleasant vineyards, yet you will not drink their wine.

For I know your transgressions are many and your sins are great,

You who distress the righteous and accept bribes

And turn aside the poor in the gate.

Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time. "Amos 5:10-14 NASB

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

The one who comes off as most believable is the one who knows when to remain silent.

I would agree with that as an agreement with the Word.

"They hate him who reproves in the gate,

And they abhor him who speaks with integrity.

Therefore because you impose heavy rent on the poor

And exact a tribute of grain from them,

Though you have built houses of well-hewn stone,

Yet you will not live in them;

You have planted pleasant vineyards, yet you will not drink their wine.

For I know your transgressions are many and your sins are great,

You who distress the righteous and accept bribes

And turn aside the poor in the gate.

Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time. "Amos 5:10-14 NASB

This text has nothing to do with the current rationale for keeping silent. In fact if the actions described in the text were going on, being silent would be irresponsible and cowardly.

That's the problem with accepting everything the Bible says as if we aren't supposed to question it. This type of "wisdom" creates irresponsible actions. Basically the idea is that if you can come up with a text for something, then all discussion stops because then I'm going to be accused of talking against god himself.

The fact is god has nothing to do with the text you chose and it's application. It's simply a con.

[aldona]

" you didn't have enough faith."

I was told this when my wife had a miscarriage.

I was told this when I didn't get healed physically.

I was told this when I had depression.

I was told this when I lost my job.

And I'm getting tired of hearing it.

Anyone else?

I sympathise with all the horrible circumstances that you have been through, Woody.

But I believe a good friend of mine could raise you an even more abusive phrase.

When she was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, some saings from our Adventist church at the time came over and told her that "God has done this to you (those exact words, not "God has allowed this"), because you haven't been coming to church."

I would have thought that God could have figured out that she had not been coming to church because she was too sick.

Needless to say, she hasn't been back.

aldona

[Gail]

Wow! I can't believe what people will say!

Redwood, ask those people where they got their Faith-o-meters from. How else are they able to tell how much faith a person has?

If GOD tells you to have more faith, you can believe Him, for sure.

Faith should not be connected to good things happening. Those don't take a lot of faith to get through. It's the bad things that do...

When you become a survivor of tragedy, THEN you can speak of how God brought you through unspeakable circumstances. It is the "gold tried in the fire" that the Bible talks about.

[SivartM]

Argh, that's awful. I wish people like that knew when to keep their mouths shut.

Then again, I don't always either... (but really, at least I've never said anything like that).

[Dr. Shane]

I think Larry the Cucumber has a faith-o-meter.

[karl]

Sad, but, sorry it is still being used, by well intentioned people. A lot of our theology is based on doing what is right and you will get a reward.

This is sound theology.

Religion doesn't pay off like a slot machine or a paycheck, but the Bible is clear that God wants us to do right so that He can bless us.

[Woody]

Quote:

God wants us to do right so that He can bless us.

Praise God He continues to bless me even when I do wrong.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Sad, but, sorry it is still being used, by well intentioned people. A lot of our theology is based on doing what is right and you will get a reward.

This is sound theology.

Religion doesn't pay off like a slot machine or a paycheck, but the Bible is clear that God wants us to do right so that He can bless us.

If it doesn't pay off like a slot machine or a paycheck, then how does it pay off?

From my perspective it seems to pay off like a slot machine which really means that there really isn't some god out there blessing anyone specifically.

It doesn't take long to see that the innocent suffer. It also doesn't take very long to realize that jumping through all the religious hoops doesn't guarantee anything.

What happens is the victim gets blamed because the religious have to keep up the illusion that god is good and fair.

And since there is no apparent reliable reward here, the reward is placed into the afterlife where no one can check if it's true or not.

There's nothing sound about it at all.

It's a con.

[karl]

And since there is no apparent reliable reward here, the reward is placed into the afterlife where no one can check if it's true or not.

There's nothing sound about it at all.

It's a con.

Nah, Rich. God really does bless us. You have been blessed your whole life, but God could bless you even more if you let Him.

Sometimes His blessings seem, to a temporal mindset, to be diabolical. Sometimes God uses even sickness as a blessing.

But we are blessed. And if we are willing, God will give us the vision to see the blessings we are surrounded with.

Read "The Hiding Place" and look at the world through Betsie's eyes. You'll see blessings galore.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

And since there is no apparent reliable reward here, the reward is placed into the afterlife where no one can check if it's true or not.

There's nothing sound about it at all.

It's a con.

Nah, Rich. God really does bless us. You have been blessed your whole life, but God could bless you even more if you let Him.

Sometimes His blessings seem, to a temporal mindset, to be diabolical. Sometimes God uses even sickness as a blessing.

But we are blessed. And if we are willing, God will give us the vision to see the blessings we are surrounded with.

Read "The Hiding Place" and look at the world through Betsie's eyes. You'll see blessings galore.

You're under the false impression that I'm not thankful for the life I have.

I simply don't give the god of the Bible credit for it because there is absolutely no evidence for that god.

I do know that when I believed in that god, my life was miserable. And I see the same fear based reasoning in what you have to say. It's not an imaginary god that I am angry with, it's the fools that keep spreading the fear.

[karl]

It's not an imaginary god that I am angry with, it's the fools that keep spreading the fear.

You're too kind.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

It's not an imaginary god that I am angry with, it's the fools that keep spreading the fear.

You're too kind.

Do you really like it here at CA?

When you have nothing of substance you resort to some irrelevant sarcasm.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I like it here at Club Adventist.

[Woody]

Quote:

Do you really like it here at CA?

I hope he does. But with these kinds of interactions from some here ... I have to wonder what kind of Christian witness we have. Just because the topic is abuse ... we certainly don't have to demonstrate it. :(

[Gail]

Richard, I hope that you will always feel like you have friends here that do love and care for you, as much as we are able, being merely cyberfriends You've been here a long time, as some of us know.

You will find those who are argumentative everywhere you go. I wish that we were like Jesus, able to cut through to read the heart and touch the soul. I thank God more, though, that we DON'T have that ability. Who knows what some folks would do with that!

[karl]

When you have nothing of substance you resort to some irrelevant sarcasm.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I like it here at Club Adventist.

[karl]

[

I see no frontal attack against anyone, but a statement which can be taken as an opinion or fact. It was not aimed at you but in a gerneric sense. I personaly would agree with the portion of the statement about 'spreading the fear' because that is a verifiable issue in some areas of Christianity.

Yes, thank you, too.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

When you have nothing of substance you resort to some irrelevant sarcasm.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I like it here at Club Adventist.

Wait just a minute, Rich. When I can agree with you, I do. When I don't, I don't. It is not irrelevant for me to ask whether you like being in a cyber-place where, as you say, "fools" are posting.

[John317]

What do you think of this verse?

"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, because whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who diligently seek him." Heb. 11: 6