Baptism

[Woody]

What is 'baptism'?

My thought was that it is a public declaration of one's faith and a desire to walk in newness of life.

If my belief on this is correct ... why would one be baptized in private without witnesses and then never refer to it or acknowledge it during their lifetime?

Why would anyone do this? Do you feel that a leader would do this? Would this set a good example? Or am I totally off base and perhaps we should keep our baptisms secret?

What are your thoughts on this?

[SivartM]

I think baptism is a ritual, but I don't suppose that it has to be public. Someone could keep it secret if they wanted to. I can think of a few reasons one would do that, such as if they are a public official in a government hostile to Christianity.

[Woody]

That's an interesting thought. But, wouldn't you want to have some trusted friends or family to witness it even if the government was hostile?

I suppose we could explore all kinds of exceptions. But, my concern was more for the typical rather than the exception. I think the exceptions take away from the intended purpose of baptism.

And I don't know of to many people who are government officials for their entire lifetime. Surely at some point you would be willing to stand up for your beliefs?

[SivartM]

I guess. I have no idea. My baptism was public (and a good thing too because I practically drowned).

I'm wondering... where does the Bible state the intended purpose of baptism? It talks about people being baptized, but I don't know where it says why. It just assumes one knows.

[Outta Here]

I am one who thinks of baptism as a very private and personal event in one's life. Aside from the one being baptised, there are always at least two witnesses to every baptism: God and the baptiser. What more is necessary? The Bible says if we love God, we should repent of our sins and be baptised. To me, that's a personal decision. And no one other than you and God can know for sure if you've done the repentence part of it...so. Anyway. I'm just sayin.

[Woody]

I am one who thinks of baptism as a very private and personal event in one's life. Aside from the one being baptised, there are always at least two witnesses to every baptism: God and the baptiser. What more is necessary? The Bible says if we love God, we should repent of our sins and be baptised. To me, that's a personal decision. And no one other than you and God can know for sure if you've done the repentence part of it...so. Anyway. I'm just sayin.

This is a good thought. Against our tradition ... but I like progressive thinking. Cool. But on the other hand ... is there something to say for a public declaration of one's belief and decision to follow Christ?

[Gail]

That would be a good test of faith, wouldn't it? (doing it publicly in a hostile environment)

The Christian church has had to work underground in various places at all times in history because of opposition.

[Woody]

I am going to try to post the Baptismal Vows. We will see if my technical skills come through. But if you will notice ... #12 is: I want to be baptized to show people I am a Christian.

If you hide it by not doing it in public and never mentioning it ... that hardly seems compatible.

The following is from "A reason to believe" by Chris Blake and published by the Review and Herald:

[SivartM]

True, but it doesn't say which people (or how many). Obviously a few people would know you were a Christian.

[SivartM]

Besides, they didn't have those baptismal vows when James baptized Ellen.

[Musicman1228]

Is baptism about declaring yourself to be a Christian or a Follower of Jesus Christ?

Our example is Jesus Himself, so here are a few questions about that:

Who ordained John and gave him the authority to baptize?

Who has the authority to baptize, and can just anyone perform a baptism?

Did Jesus make a declaration at His baptism?

Jesus did not sin, so for what reason did He need to be baptized?

Where and under what conditions was Jesus baptized?

Who observed His baptism, and what was said about it?

Does the process of becoming like Jesus include baptism?

[Woody]

Besides, they didn't have those baptismal vows when James baptized Ellen.

Well ... as a prophet ... she should have known what the church would be doing in 2010. :) lol

Anyways ... I suspect that if James baptized Ellen ... that there were no vows ... as there is no record of her being baptized by James. And there is no record of her being admitted to any church following her baptism.

Strange that someone would be baptized and then never mention it. Especially considering the millions of words that Ellen wrote about every conceivable topic. :)

[SivartM]

Maybe it just wasn't that significant of an event; not enough to warrant her telling everyone about it. It was a rebaptism, after all. And if she was baptized directly after learning about the Sabbath, then there wouldn't have been a church yet for her to be baptized into. :)

[Woody]

Interesting. Hmmm.

[SivartM]

Why don't you just ask her yourself?

Sure, you might have to wait a few years for the opportunity... :D

[Woody]

The church manual (p.50) states that if you desire to become a member of the Seventh day Adventist church and you have been baptized previously (by immersion) ... that you should still be re-baptized into the Seventh day Adventist Church. Was there a third baptism for Ellen White?

And if so ... why are these baptisms being so hidden?

[SivartM]

Co-founders don't count?

Were James White and Joseph Bates baptized into the SDA church? I doubt it.

Or maybe they all had secret baptisms! O_O

Maybe they were ashamed.

That's it! Ellen did know what the church would be like in 2010!

[Woody]

Well ... we do need to abide by the Church Manual.

I would at least hope our leaders would.

[SivartM]

Which edition? Maybe they added that part later.

Or just didn't think it really mattered a whole lot since they were the founders.

[aldona]

Quote:

The church manual (p.50) states that if you desire to become a member of the Seventh day Adventist church and you have been baptized previously (by immersion) ... that you should still be re-baptized into the Seventh day Adventist Church.

So much for "one Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Isn't it rather arrogant to imply, by this practice, that we are the only ones on the whole planet who have The One And Only True Baptism?

I wonder what other denominations who baptize adults by immersion (Baptist, Brethren, Amish and many others) would say to this.

I guess that also confirms what I have been thinking for a long time. Our baptism is not "into Christ"; it is actually "into the SDA denomination."

aldona

[Dr. Rich]

Amen.

[Woody]

Yes. I think our church needs to understand baptism in a new light. :)

[phkrause]

One Day by the Jordan

Q: Why was Jesus’ baptism necessary?

https://adventistreview.org/theology/bible-study/one-day-by-the-jordan/

[Gregory Matthews]

The general SDA understanding of baptism is that it is normally a public declaration.  It is not required to be public and is valid when it is not public.

* In some places, Christian baptism would normally be a death sentence for the person being baptized as well as the person who did it.

*  Even in the u.S., there may be times and circumstances when it is not possible for a baptism to be public.  One example might be for a prisoner who became a Christian.   Another example might be a military person.

*  Family circumstances might require such.   Thos might be medical, and there could be other reasons.

In short; if you are not requesting a private baptism, i see no value for you to concern yourself about someone else.

 

[Gustave]

On 4/12/2010 at 9:10 AM, Woody said:

What is 'baptism'?

 

My thought was that it is a public declaration of one's faith and a desire to walk in newness of life.

 

If my belief on this is correct ... why would one be baptized in private without witnesses and then never refer to it or acknowledge it during their lifetime?

 

 

Why would anyone do this? Do you feel that a leader would do this? Would this set a good example? Or am I totally off base and perhaps we should keep our baptisms secret?

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

It doesn't matter if it's witnessed by hordes of people or it's done in private - the most important thing is THAT IT's DONE. A lot more going on here than a public declaration of someone's faith.