pnattmbtc Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 There are two major powers in the world: God and Satan. Satan also "blesses" people with wealth. I don't think we can assume that if someone is wealthy, it's because of God. God never rewards evil actions with wealth, but Satan often does. The devil knows Jesus' teaching that people with wealth have an extremely difficult time getting into the kingdom of heaven. To the degree that it makes it hard to be saved, wealth is not a true blessing. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 1, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 1, 2010 Yes, I agree: that quote's related. When we get to heaven and have an opporutnity to ask questions about these things, we will doubtless learn a lot about why some people seem to be "blessed" with great wealth and others aren't. I've never asked God for great wealth before, and that's because I really don't desire it. I think there's a good chance that if I had a lot of money, I wouldn't see as well my need of relying on God from day to day. To me that's more important than having money. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert There is less self-seeking in my life, but I still retain self. I'm still bent-to-self...I don't really desire poverty and I know if I were free of all self-interest I would be under a bridge. This is ridiculous. Where did you get such an idea? Most of Christ's life was not spent "under a bridge." He had a job and a home. Was He not free of all self-interest? He didn't have a Job or a home. It was His step-father's home and he served him.... Keep in mind "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 It's an odd interpretation that would conclude that this means we should live under a bridge. That means to be homeless, as was Jesus. He never lived for Himself.... Now explain what "those who follow him must share his poverty" means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Me thinks you are carrying your argument in a sack with holes in it my friend! "Those who follow him must share his poverty" To follow Christ is to live His life of self-denial. If you lived His life in this world you too would be poor, but you love yourself and you make sure you have the things you desire. This isn't loving your neighbor, it's loving yourself. That's the problem with this world..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 However ... if you want to obey as Christ did in order to fulfill the Law ... we would have to do as Robert has stated. Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Christ worked most of His life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 God gives men the power to obtain wealth That's because God brings rain on the just and unjust....He loves all....He is the source of life. With that men try to gain wealth...they seek their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 But Robert; some people have gotten rich living a "selfless life." Only if someone agaped them and gave them their wealth...like the early church did.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I've never asked God for great wealth before, and that's because I really don't desire it. 1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our LORD Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. Good John, that shows maturity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 He didn't have a Job or a home. It was His step-father's home and he served him.... Keep in mind "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself" Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 One can be employed, as Jesus was, and not live for self, as Jesus did, and similarly in regards to living in one's home. Jesus, as He did with all humanity, assisted His father. There is no record that He was on his father's payroll and that Jesus invested His money or bought a home or did anything for Himself besides food & clothing. You can't say this about yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Now explain what "those who follow him must share his poverty" means? Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc One can be employed, as Jesus was, and not live for self, as Jesus did, and similarly in regards to living in one's home. Jesus, as He did with all humanity, assisted His father. There is no record that He was on his father's payroll and that Jesus invested His money or bought a home or did anything for Himself besides food & clothing. You can't say this about yourself. Jesus did a little more than "assist" the Father - and He does not demand a price such as "poverty" from us in order to be saved: Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled. The invitation is: "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? . . . eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness" (Isaiah 55:1, 2). . . . The promise is clear; if we "hunger and thirst" WE WILL BE FILLED. This promise does not exclude rich people. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Jesus, as He did with all humanity, assisted His father. There is no record that He was on his father's payroll and that Jesus invested His money or bought a home or did anything for Himself besides food & clothing. You can't say this about yourself. Are you saying if Christ had bought a home, or anything besides food and clothing, that would have been a sin? You say there's no record of the things you mentioned, but there's also no record that Christ bought food or clothing. There are many things we can assume Christ did of which there is no record. What would what I could say about myself have to do with anything? I have consistently said nothing about myself. I don't see how this could possibly matter. My point has been that I do not believe that a person not in harmony with God or His principles would be happy in heaven. Do you disagree? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Are you saying if Christ had bought a home, or anything besides food and clothing, that would have been a sin? There's is no love of self in agape. Agape is the fulfillment of the law. Where you have self, you have sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 He does not demand a price such as "poverty" from us in order to be saved.... The law demands agape. If you are to teach that the law is binding then the law demands a love that is not self-seeking. If you lived such a love in this world you would be in poverty. Hence all who follow Christ in His self-denial will experience poverty in a world saturated in self-interest and self-seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Quote: Jesus did a little more than "assist" the Father - and He does not demand a price such as "poverty" from us in order to be saved: Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled. The invitation is: "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? . . . eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness" (Isaiah 55:1, 2). . . . The promise is clear; if we "hunger and thirst" WE WILL BE FILLED. This promise does not exclude rich people. Nicely said. The promise includes prostitutes as well; everybody! I think we can all agree this is good news! Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert Now explain what "those who follow him must share his poverty" means? Yes? Yes, again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert Now explain what "those who follow him must share his poverty" means? Yes? could you show where it says that in the bible? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Jesus said that whoever would follow Him should take up his cross and follow Him. This is the context of the statement that "those who follow Him must share His poverty." The poverty of Christ is to forsake the world. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "those who follow Him must share His poverty." but i cant find anywhere where it says this in the bible... Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "those who follow Him must share His poverty." but i cant find anywhere where it says this in the bible... 2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) "those who follow Him must share His poverty." but i cant find anywhere where it says this in the bible... 2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. Yes, in heaven will be wealthy, but it won't come through iniquity (our bent-to-self). It will come from the charity of others. You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439] "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [i.e., own way]; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Jesus said that whoever would follow Him should take up his cross and follow Him. This is the context of the statement that "those who follow Him must share His poverty." The poverty of Christ is to forsake the world. 1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh [our bent-to-self], the lust of the eyes [what we see we want], and the pride of life [to the # 1]--is not of the Father but is of the world." Jesus never lived for the desires of our fallen humanity even though He assumed it at the incarnation. He denied self...He crucified indwelling sin (the love of self) daily. What was the result of living such a life in a world dominated by self-interest? Matt 8:19 And a scribe [teacher of the law] came up and said to him, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." 20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." To follow Christ in His denial of self (self-interests, self-seeking, self-love, etc) is to refrain from living for your own interests and instead live for the interest of those around you. If all of us did this there would be no poverty, but since we live in a world dominated with the principle of self those who refuse to participate in its system will experience poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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