Ariz. Governor Signs Immigration Enforcement Bill

[bonnie]

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They are not stupid. Desperate would be the correct description. They come here because there is work. If there was no work, they would stop coming.

Close off the welfare,the education,the free medical except in a real emergency.

That should hold true for the legal immigrant as well. If they are not prepared when applying for paying their own way or having a family member to rely on.

When my DIL immigrated that is exactly what it took.

But if you rely on protesting when you don't get what you want,DON"T COME.Go somewhere else where you are treated better.

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It is 12 miles south of me.

Maybe you have the crime and the kidnappings there,I don't know. But until I had to protect my family from illegals I am not going to condemn the citizens of AZ

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They have human rights. In some cases those human rights have been violated.

That may be true.However if they were not here illegally they would have some recourse.

[lazarus]

Close off the welfare,the education,the free medical except in a real emergency.

the education?

legal immigrant kids should not be able to get an education?

Illegal or legal immigrants should be able to receive justice if their human right are violated.

[bonnie]

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the education?

legal immigrant kids should not be able to get an education?

That should hold true for the legal immigrant as well. If they are not prepared when applying for paying their own way or having a family member to rely on.

Sorry,I didn't make a distinction between sentences. Legal immigrants should not however be given grants for higher education just because their families are immigrants.When they immigrate there should be certain restrictions. Not just lip service but restrictions that are put into practise.

Do not come because you know we have a generous welfare system.

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Illegal or legal immigrants should be able to receive justice if their human right are violated.

Didn't say they shouldn't. However their civil rights or their human rights should not take priority over the rights of citizens of this country. The rights of the citizens should at least be equal

I said earlier,when my brother adopted two of his grandchildren he was told "do not bring up the fact the father is a illegal"

The mother's history as an american was fair game. The background of my brother and his wife was also open to scrutiny.Had my brother not been able to convince the father the children would be much better off,his rights probably would not have been terminated.

When a rancher is sued for holding a group of illegals trying to cross his property for the authorities something is drastically wrong.

[Dr. Shane]

We have to provide everyone with basic medical care. If we don't we will have women giving birth and dying of infection. We will have children dying of strep thought.

We have to allow all children access to our schools. If we don't, they will be in the street during school hours. Or in your house taking you flat-screen TV down to the nearest pawn shop. Best to have those kids in school.

The answer is to prevent them from getting into the country illegally in the first place. That means increasing the size of the Border Patrol and erecting obstacles like fences, walls, security cameras, etc.

Most of the violence on the boarder is gang related. If a person is not involved with a gang they are in little danger of being hurt. Most Americans killed by illegals were themselves involved in the drug or human trafficking trade. Once in a while the gangs will kill an innocent person by accident but one's chances of dying in a car accident are much higher than being killed by a gang unless one is actually involved in the drug or human trafficking trade.

Contrary to right-wing propaganda, illegals do not come here for welfare benefits. They come here to work. They are hard workers. In fact, they tend to be more ambitious than most Americans which is why American companies like to hire them. The right-wing will claim that Americans want to hire them to pay them cheap wages. Not true. Mexican nationals are hard workers. Put an American out in the field picking strawberries, tomatoes or melons and put a Mexican national out beside him and see which one brings in the biggest harvest.

[bonnie]

We have to provide everyone with basic medical care. If we don't we will have women giving birth and dying of infection. We will have children dying of strep thought.

[Dr. Shane]

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I believe I did say a true emergency.

We cannot require doctors and hospitals to ask for legal status of immigrants. If we do that the illegals will stop going to the doctor and we will have them dying of simple infections that can be cured with cheap antibiotics.

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Not if you deport mom and dad.

We have an estimated 12 to 20 million illegals in the country now. We can't deport that many. That is not a realistic plan.

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I would like to see a fence and patrolled by the military.

Of course, you don't live on the border either. The last time we had the military patrolling the border here a Marine shot a teenager (American citizen) who was hunting on his family's ranch. Illegal immigration is not a military invasion. We don't need the military. It is a law enforcement issue. We need more Border Patrol agents.

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Legal as well should not be allowed unless they have the skills and the motivation to care for themselves and their family.

Legal immigrants must have a sponsor to move here. Their sponsor has to line them up with a job and housing before they come. INS gives priority to those with family already here because they make for better communities.

[bonnie]

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We cannot require doctors and hospitals to ask for legal status of immigrants. If we do that the illegals will stop going to the doctor and we will have them dying of simple infections that can be cured with cheap antibiotics.

No,they can go back where they came from,and receive it cheaper. Wasn't it you that said Obamacare would not effect you that much as you go across and fill prescriptions and such?

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We have an estimated 12 to 20 million illegals in the country now. We can't deport that many. That is not a realistic plan.

Next week we will have that many more. It cannot be accomplished over night.It can be started tho and let those that would come across illegally that there is some consequences for breaking the law

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Of course, you don't live on the border either. The last time we had the military patrolling the border here a Marine shot a teenager (American citizen) who was hunting on his family's ranch. Illegal immigration is not a military invasion. We don't need the military. It is a law enforcement issue. We need more Border Patrol agents.

So are you saying only the military would make that kind of mistake. Hiring more Border Patrol agents would not result in mistakes being made??

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Legal immigrants must have a sponsor to move here. Their sponsor has to line them up with a job and housing before they come. INS gives priority to those with family already here because they make for better communities.

That sounds so wonderful on paper.Unfortunately that is as far as it gets.

When my DIL finally received her paper work that she could come,Daffy duck could have claimed to be a sponsor and it would have been fine.

[lazarus]

We have an estimated 12 to 20 million illegals in the country now. We can't deport that many. That is not a realistic plan.

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Next week we will have that many more. It cannot be accomplished over night.It can be started tho and let those that would come across illegally that there is some consequences for breaking the law.

Do the math. I've posted this kind of thing before.

1000 deported / day = 365,000 in one year.

That's 3m+ in 10years. How many years for 20 million.

Don't forget rounding them up, holding then, getting them onto transportation and off again.

Those who are running around talking about deporting them are "jokesters". It's empty rhetoric. We need reform not empty rabble rousing slogans.

[karl]

You stop the flood first. Securing our border is the mandatory beginning. All else is a waste of time because those we deport will be right back through the sieve we call a border. Then you start by deporting the criminals. Next, those who are just leaching off American citizens through government handouts. You deport the least desirable persons first and work your way down the pyramid. You may never get to the bottom of the heap, but the ones that are left will be less of a drain on us.

This is just common sense. You don't let the size of the problem stop you. Big problems have never stopped Americans before.

And you make assimilation more likely by insisting on English.

[bonnie]

You stop the flood first. Securing our border is the mandatory beginning. All else is a waste of time because those we deport will be right back through the sieve we call a border. Then you start by deporting the criminals. Next, those who are just leaching off American citizens through government handouts. You deport the least desirable persons first and work your way down the pyramid. You may never get to the bottom of the heap, but the ones that are left will be less of a drain on us.

This is just common sense. You don't let the size of the problem stop you. Big problems have never stopped Americans before.

And you make assimilation more likely by insisting on English.

Assimilation should be mandatory. In the home use whatever language they wish,observe whatever they feel compelled to. Share their culture on a private scale.Worship according to their beliefs.

But in the schools and workplace english is the language spoken.

The chance of a better paying jobs goes to those who can speak and understand the language.

Makes me remember the tornado that wiped us out and the looters that quickly gathered.

The governor issued a shoot to kill order.I would not have wanted anyone to die but the notice had a great effect on the looters.They simply disappeared

[lazarus]

Assimilation!!!, you sound like the Borg.

It's quite amusing that Americans would insist on English. It makes me laugh. It's like the Brits insisting on English when they ran India for years and didn't learn a word or Urdu.

Good luck with that. It ain't gonna happen. Most second generation immigrants learn English anyways. They are bilingual. Press 1 for English is not going away.

What would assimilation look like to you besides the language piece?

What would mandatory assimilation look like in terms of food, dress, music, cultural preferences. Would you ban the display of flags from other countries. Would you ban sending money "home"? What about Taco's.

Every country has the right to secure its borders. The US should do that but like a border guard said, "if you build a 50 ft fence someone will make money selling 51 ft ladders". There is a need for a creative and effective solutions. 40% of current illegals entered legally. Careful comprehensive reform is needed.

[bonnie]

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It's quite amusing that Americans would insist on English. It makes me laugh. It's like the Brits insisting on English when they ran India for years and didn't learn a word or Urdu.

What the Brits did is immaterial. This is a predominently english speaking country.Road signs,advertisments,businesses etc are all in english.

Do not expect to work in a restaurant that has menu's and basically english speaking patronage. You would have to understand the orders and the questions.

My last job while basically quite easy for those that spoke english caused quite a bit of unhappy customers when dealing with a legal immigrant ignorant of the english language.A few english words didn't do it. Don't be offended when the employer's offer to pay for classes that teach english.It isn't discrimination,it is business.

Any immigrant working for my husband would have had to have a firm grasp of english.

That is the country they came to. If they choose to have all remain the same don't come.

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Good luck with that. It ain't gonna happen. Most second generation immigrants learn English anyways. They are bilingual. Press 1 for English is not going away.

While I suspect that is true the first generation still has to survive. If they don't learn english their chance of a decent job is slim. Then welfare becomes the answer

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What would mandatory assimilation look like in terms of food, dress, music, cultural preferences. Would you ban the display of flags from other countries. Would you ban sending money "home"? What about Taco's.

I don't care how they dress if that does not present a work hazard.Would I care if they displayed a flag from their country. generally no. If it was flown to honor a place as Iran I might,considering what Iran stands for. Wouldn't be any different than the reaction by african -americans to the south displaying the confederate flag.

Would I have a problem with their decision to send monetary help to their families.No,unless of course it was to those wanting to harm americans.

What about Taco's?

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Every country has the right to secure its borders. The US should do that but like a border guard said, "if you build a 50 ft fence someone will make money selling 51 ft ladders". There is a need for a creative and effective solutions. 40% of current illegals entered legally. Careful comprehensive reform is needed.

Reform without force is feel good sounding solutions.

I would love to see a 50 foot fence and a marine on the other side.

[lazarus]

And what country do you think English came from?

So if assimilation is about language then it will take care of itself.

[bonnie]

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And what country do you think English came from?

I don't care where the English came from,this has what to do with many of the problems we face with even the legal immigrants?

Those that refuse to learn english are handicapped in employment etc. Even a Dr visit can mean another drain on the taxpayer.

Taxpayer's pick up the tab for a translator. I think it is around 45.00 per visit for those that don't bring a english speaking family member

What is to prevent them from trying to help themselves as much as possible?

Why should they be allowed to call the shots concerning their religious beliefs ,when not catered to,sue. Why should muslims get 5 paid breaks for prayers. The other employee's do not get 5 paid for breaks for their religious beliefs.

If they don't want to have to transport dogs or alcohol at the airport,get out of the way and leave those to do it that don't have a problem with it.

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So if assimilation is about language then it will take care of itself.

Will it?? Hasn't yet has it? Assimilation should include more than language but it is a good start.It should include the knowledge that your freedom in this country should end where you take advantage of mine.

It allows you more flexibility as to work. I don't have to pay for a translator for a medical visit.

[bonnie]

Arizona Rancher Shot Dead on his Property Near Southwest Border

Rob Krentz

Longtime Arizona Rancher Rob Krentz was found shot to death on his property late Saturday night. Authorities have not concluded that the suspect was an illegal alien, but his brother Phil Krentz said that the last time he spoke to Rob, he was responding to an injured illegal alien.

Krentz was found, along with his dog who had also been shot and killed, by an Arizona Public Safety helicopter.

The Krentz family owns a 35,000-acre ranch in Arizona about 20 miles north of the Southwest border. Authorities say they found footprints near Krentz's vehicle and followed them to the U.S./Mexican border. Krentz was scheduled to meet with former Congressman Tom Tancredo and other ranchers from along the Southwest border this past weekend to discuss violence in the region.

NumbersUSA offers its condolences to the Krentz family, and we'll have more on this story as more is learned.

[SivartM]

That's sad. Nobody knows if an illegal immigrant did it or not, though, so I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic...

But I'm sure you'll tell me in no uncertain words...

[bonnie]

That's sad. Nobody knows if an illegal immigrant did it or not, though, so I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic...

But I'm sure you'll tell me in no uncertain words...

You are right,no one witnessed it. The area is known for the violence. The killing in these area's are because of the immigration problem

My nephew lived in Nogales and was just within the last few days was able to leave as his job transfer came thru.

Those that take this as just some peace loving hispanic strolling thru the area is not shared by those that live there and put up with it.

Kidnappings are the norm,killings and not just the drug cartel shooting those like themselves. Coming home to a house that has been empty for a few hours is a gamble. Never know when you have been cleaned out. Houses and ranches that are country have their homes vandalized if they don't find enough food.

[SivartM]

That still doesn't mean that Mr. Krentz was killed by an illegal immigrant.

[bonnie]

That still doesn't mean that Mr. Krentz was killed by an illegal immigrant.

No it doesn't. From listening to the governor of AZ this was one of the incidences that led to the state of AZ taking a stand.

It was more than likely a illegal immigrant or a drug runner. If not,what difference does it make to what most know is going on in that area?

[Dr. Shane]

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they can go back where they came from,and receive it cheaper.

If an illegal comes down with an infection in Chicago, St. Luis, San Francisco or Denver, he or she cannot simply slip across the border and get treated like I can.

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Next week we will have that many more.

No, there will not be. Since the recession hit illegals have been going home. We now have less here than we did two years ago. That is how it works. They come here because American employers need them. When the work slows down, they go home.

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So are you saying only the military would make that kind of mistake. Hiring more Border Patrol agents would not result in mistakes being made??

Border Patrol agents are trained differently than the military. The military is trained to fight wars. The Border Patrol is trained to enforce laws. Indeed they have two different purposes and function differently.

[Dr. Shane]

Securing our border is the mandatory beginning... Then you start by deporting the criminals. Next, those who are just leaching off American citizens through government handouts. You deport the least desirable persons first and work your way down the pyramid. You may never get to the bottom of the heap, but the ones that are left will be less of a drain on us.

There is some logic and reason here. Basically we need to deport the bad ones and provide a path for the ones working as productive members of society to become legal. I do not support a law that would allow an immigrant that entered the country illegally to become a citizen. However I do believe they should be able to become a legal resident as long as they have not committed any felonies while in the US or used public assistance for three years previous to applying for legal status.

[Dr. Shane]

Assimilation should be mandatory.

Not in my America. America is the great melting pot of the world. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We don't have just one kind of American here. No we do not. We never had and God willing, we never will.

Reminds me of a time I was on an elevator in Panama and a woman spoke to be in crisp, clear English. I asked her if she was American. She responded by asking me if she looked American. She was Hispanic. I then asked her, what does an American look like?

[Dr. Shane]

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What the Brits did is immaterial.

How other countries deal with similar problems is relevant.

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My last job while basically quite easy for those that spoke english caused quite a bit of unhappy customers when dealing with a legal immigrant ignorant of the english language.

It sounds like you were not qualified for the job and needed to be replaced with someone who is bilingual.

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Any immigrant working for my husband would have had to have a firm grasp of english.

Which means your husband may have to pay his workers more money while his competitors, that are bilingual, can hire workers willing to work harder for lower wages.

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I would love to see a 50 foot fence...

The fence isn't a bad idea and seems to be working in areas where it has been erected. However the cost was unreasonable. We could have achieved the same results by hiring more Border Patrol agents for far less money. I think I figured that for the price of the fence we could have stationed one Border Patrol agent every mile along the border for over 100 years.

[Dr. Shane]

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Krentz was scheduled to meet with former Congressman Tom Tancredo and other ranchers from along the Southwest border this past weekend to discuss violence in the region.

Sounds like he may have been trying to make things harder on the Mexican gangs so they killed him. If that is the case, it is quite unrelated to illegal immigration. The Mexican drug war is a separate issue and completely unrelated to illegal immigration.

[bonnie]

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Not in my America. America is the great melting pot of the world. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We don't have just one kind of American here. No we do not. We never had and God willing, we never will.

Reminds me of a time I was on an elevator in Panama and a woman spoke to be in crisp, clear English. I asked her if she was American. She responded by asking me if she looked American. She was Hispanic. I then asked her, what does an American look like?

Those not willing to assimilate in language keep a barrier ahead of them. Never quite fitting in to a work force.

I then asked her, what does an American look like?

This is just feel good PC

They can refuse to assimilate and continue to be a drain on american citizens or they can take a few simple steps and be an assest