Ariz. Governor Signs Immigration Enforcement Bill

[Dr. Shane]

Yes, the cartels smuggle illegals in. I already pointed that out. However I am not aware of the illegals being smuggled in also being loaded up with drugs. An illegal will pay a cartel around $2,000 to be smuggled into the US in the back of a semi-trailer. I am not aware of any illegal that has paid $2,000 plus swallowed a bag of cocaine in order to be smuggled through.

[lazarus]

Quote:

* 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

That's a surprising figure. I took the time to try and find out what that really means.

Apparently the word "outstanding" was left out.

So..... * 95% of outstanding warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. Here some of the explanation I found.

I didn't take the time to look at the rest but it is interesting what lengths people will go to to make a point.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2007/04/may_day_mythbus.html

"Fact" 2: 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

LAT citations: May 15, 2005 — "According to Heather MacDonald of the Manhattan Institute, 95% of the hundreds of outstanding homicide warrants (and 60% of outstanding felony warrants) in L.A. are for illegal immigrants."

Similar citations: January 19, 2004

[bonnie]

Yes, the cartels smuggle illegals in. I already pointed that out. However I am not aware of the illegals being smuggled in also being loaded up with drugs. An illegal will pay a cartel around $2,000 to be smuggled into the US in the back of a semi-trailer. I am not aware of any illegal that has paid $2,000 plus swallowed a bag of cocaine in order to be smuggled through.

[Dr. Shane]

I didn't say anything about swallowing a bag of cocaine in order to be smuggled thru...

The cartels sometimes have illegal immigrants pay their way or that of a family member by smuggling drugs.

The price to a coyote can be up to 4,000.00 ,not 2,000.00

Again, I live just 12 miles north of the border. I am also fluent in Spanish. I actually know illegals that have been smuggled over the border in various ways.

One common way of an individual smuggling drugs over the border is by swallowing a bag of cocaine. Once on the US side, it comes out in their excrement and they get paid for bring it across. People that smuggle drugs that way are able to cross the border legally. They are either US citizens, residents or have a legal US Visa. I have never heard of an illegal migrant smuggling drugs in as a means to pay for being smuggled in. It may happen on occasion but I have never heard of it.

$2,000 is what most illegals I have talked to tell me they paid to be smuggled in. Some may charge more than that. Wikipedia isn't an authoritative source of information although it is helpful. I would have to see where their information is coming from.

[Dr. Shane]

It is important to distinguish two types of illegal border crossings that take place.

1. Criminals crossing committing serious crimes like drug trafficking, human trafficking and arms dealing.

2. Migrants crossing looking for work.

Migrants do often employ the criminal element to be smuggled across but that is not always the case. Many, probably a majority of migrants walk or swim across on their own without any help from coyotes.

The third element that we are all concerned about is terrorists crossing to commit acts of terror in the US. This is a valid concern but there is no evidence that any significant number of border crossings fall into this category.

Politically the big emphasis seems to be on the migrants while the migrants cause the least amount of problems and normally positively contribute to the areas where they end up working. The criminal element is the problem. They are also the ones with the most money and ability to get in despite our efforts to keep them out.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Again, I live just 12 miles north of the border. I am also fluent in Spanish. I actually know illegals that have been smuggled over the border in various ways.

You are not the only one that does. Nor are you the only one that may have worked with them,or have their plight recounted to you

Quote:

One common way of an individual smuggling drugs over the border is by swallowing a bag of cocaine. Once on the US side, it comes out in their excrement and they get paid for bring it across. People that smuggle drugs that way are able to cross the border legally. They are either US citizens, residents or have a legal US Visa. I have never heard of an illegal migrant smuggling drugs in as a means to pay for being smuggled in. It may happen on occasion but I have never heard of it.

It would be a bit tought to swallow and smuggle bales across.

Quote:

$2,000 is what most illegals I have talked to tell me they paid to be smuggled in. Some may charge more than that. Wikipedia isn't an authoritative source of information although it is helpful. I would have to see where their information is coming from.

I don't think anyone has the true story on cost and the demands placed on those seeking to get to the US.

As far as....Wikipedia isn't an authoritative source of information although it is helpful I doubt any source that does not back you up is considered authoritative.

For all the talk of bias it would be helpful for you or someone to indicate with proof where something is wrong. Whether it be healthcare or this you only provide the denial of drinking kool-aid

[bonnie]

It is important to distinguish two types of illegal border crossings that take place.

1. Criminals crossing committing serious crimes like drug trafficking, human trafficking and arms dealing.

2. Migrants crossing looking for work.

Migrants do often employ the criminal element to be smuggled across but that is not always the case. Many, probably a majority of migrants walk or swim across on their own without any help from coyotes.

The third element that we are all concerned about is terrorists crossing to commit acts of terror in the US. This is a valid concern but there is no evidence that any significant number of border crossings fall into this category.

Politically the big emphasis seems to be on the migrants while the migrants cause the least amount of problems and normally positively contribute to the areas where they end up working. The criminal element is the problem. They are also the ones with the most money and ability to get in despite our efforts to keep them out.

Open the borders and do away with that inconvenient immigration law.Whether they can work,whether they are criminals,sort that out later.

The law is either to be enforced or it is a feel good joke.

Illegal has a meaning.

[bonnie]

Quote:

For the most part, the illegal migrants coming here looking for work do not cause much problem other than straining our infrastructure. Their most common crime is drunk driving. That is bad but not so much when compared to what those in the drug trade are doing.

Minnesota has it's share of migrant workers because of the large truck farms.

You can tell when the migrants are back because of the crime rate,mostly petty sky rockets.

I don't know where they all live while here but a couple of the truck farms also have trailer courts that the migrant workers rent. One that I know personally had a nice court.Nothing fancy but neat and clean and the trailers while not brand new were well cared for.

By the end of the season it looks like a ghetto. The winter months are spent trying to rehab the place. Gas siphoned from cars in the driveways,shoplifting and domestic assaults go thru the roof and the increase leads right to their door.

Their is a responsibility that the migrant worker has,it does not all rest on the american citizen.

If I had a home or trailer to rent out I would not rent to that group

[karl]

For the most part, the illegal migrants coming here looking for work do not cause much problem other than straining our infrastructure. Their most common crime is drunk driving. That is bad but not so much when compared to what those in the drug trade are doing.

It is just amazing how you can be so blase' about such serious things.

Drunk driving is nothing to be waved aside. It is a SERIOUS, potentially lethal crime. It is no big deal in Mexico, which is one of the reasons why we don't want Mexicans here in the US unless they are assimilated.

I was working in the ER in Hillsboro, OR when they brought in a beautiful blond 19 year old gal whose VW had been T-boned by a drunk migrant worker a couple of blocks from her home as she was returning on Christmas break from U of O. She had significant head trauma and her neck was broken. She died right there in the ER. Merry Christmas. Or should I say, "Feliz Navidad?"

After working futilely to save her life it was my privilege to sew up the face of her drunk assailant, who cursed me the whole time he was getting his free medical care. The police and the DA showed up in the hospital. I asked the DA what they would be doing about the manslaughter. "Oh, he'll be deported."

I told the DA that the migrant would be right back, and that it would be poetic justice if the DA's daughter were next.

[bonnie]

Quote:

It is just amazing how you can be so blase' about such serious things.

Drunk driving is nothing to be waved aside. It is a SERIOUS, potentially lethal crime. It is no big deal in Mexico, which is one of the reasons why we don't want Mexicans here in the US unless they are assimilated.

It is the fault of the bigoted,racist white man that causes the problem.

The demeanor and the behavior of legal immigrants from Mexico are light years apart. I don't believe all illegals come with the intent of breaking the law. The fact they do break the law to get here I believe plays a part.They cannot find good paying jobs as easily and they need to eat and have transportation.

Where are they going to obtain that except thru theft.

During harvest season here most are smart enough to put their cars in a locked garage. The time I left mine out I ran out of gas believing I had a full tank.

This is common.

[Dr. Shane]

Drunk driving is nothing to be waved aside.

[karl]

He would be deported after serving time for vehicular homicide. We have a lot of INS prisons in the area where I live. Illegals are sentenced and deported when their sentence has been served. Most of them do not return - some do but the penalty if they get caught in the US again is even more severe.

Things must have improved. 25 years ago they just deported him

But what is this baloney about him not coming back because the penalty is severe? If he's here illegally under a phony ID who is going to know? He'd have to commit a finger-printable crime and get his prints run nationwide in order to get caught.

Criminals, by definition, are not law-abiding people.

This includes ALL illegal aliens.

They might be selectively disobeying our laws, but there's really no way to know for sure until they commit another crime. It is too late at that point.

[Dr. Shane]

In Texas, one must give a thumb print to get a driver's licenses.

[karl]

In Texas, one must give a thumb print to get a driver's licenses.

If one were a law-abiding citizen, he might care about this. If one were an illegal alien and thus laughing at US law, he would find a way around this, such driving without a license or finding bogus papers to get a job.

[Dr. Shane]

We need some perspective here. These people are crossing the border illegally - not robbing a bank. It is like j-walking. Have you ever seen the white lines of a crosswalk and walked outside of them? That is j-walking. These people are walking across a border - a line in the sand. They are not an invading military force. They come here to work. They come to pick our onions and sugar beets. They do the work that the poorest of Americans are not willing to do.

Yes, some of them commit crimes. Those need to be punish and then deported. But let's keep prospective. Some Americans commit crimes too. Americans shop lift. Americans drink and drive. Americans beat up their wives and abuse their children. Those crimes are not unique to illegal migrants.

[karl]

We need some perspective here. These people are crossing the border illegally - not robbing a bank. It is like j-walking.

No, illegally entering a country is an international crime, legally punishable by death on-the-spot in some circumstances. According to the US Border Agency, there were 987 assaults on US Border Agents in 2008 and there were a total of 12 people killed by agents in 2007 and 2008.

What kind of koolaid did you say you're drinking?

[lazarus]

No, illegally entering a country is an international crime, legally punishable by death on-the-spot in some circumstances. According to the US Border Agency, there were 987 assaults on US Border Agents in 2008 and there were a total of 12 people killed by agents in 2007 and 2008.

What kind of koolaid did you say you're drinking?

I think the stats you posted prove Shane's point.

There are over 8,000 assaults on humans by snakes every year. i wonder how many came here illegally.

[SivartM]

I think many people would be in favor of sending all the snakes to other countries.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

No, illegally entering a country is an international crime, legally punishable by death on-the-spot in some circumstances. According to the US Border Agency, there were 987 assaults on US Border Agents in 2008 and there were a total of 12 people killed by agents in 2007 and 2008.

What kind of koolaid did you say you're drinking?

I think the stats you posted prove Shane's point.

There are over 8,000 assaults on humans by snakes every year. i wonder how many came here illegally.

Huh?

Are you saying that entering this country illegally is NOT a federal crime? The fact that border agants don't frequently use deadly force to protect our borders does not negate the fact that they can. I would consider this a significant crime. Shane compared it to jaywalking. How many people get shot for jaywalking?

[SivartM]

I think the point is, how is illegal immigration any less ethical than jaywalking? You're just crossing an imaginary line. People act like it's a spiritual crime or something, like the tribal communities who spear each other for stepping on the wrong side of the river.

[bonnie]

I think the point is, how is illegal immigration any less ethical than jaywalking? You're just crossing an imaginary line. People act like it's a spiritual crime or something, like the tribal communities who spear each other for stepping on the wrong side of the river.

No,people act like it is a federal crime. Most clear thinking people do not wish to have border guards protect against spiritual crimes.

You may have learned differently but when I was in school there wasn't anything imaginary about the borders of the US.

The US is the only country that is not only expected but demanded to let all in and take care of their medical,food,shelter,schooling if necessary.Why?

Heaven help anyone seen to be profiling someone that very likely has one aim and that is to kill americans. We need to quit accepting even legal immigrants from highly suspect countries.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I think the stats you posted prove Shane's point.

There are over 8,000 assaults on humans by snakes every year. i wonder how many came here illegally.

The stats prove we have thousands and thousands that come illegally. Crime,not jaywalking but a federal crime by itself without the crimes committed here.

You really may not understand the difference between snakes and illegal immigrants,but most people know that snakes are incapable of consciously committing a crime.Illegal immigrants are not,nor do snakes produce children that need to be fed,clothed,educated and medically cared for.

[karl]

I think the point is, how is illegal immigration any less ethical than jaywalking? You're just crossing an imaginary line. People act like it's a spiritual crime or something, like the tribal communities who spear each other for stepping on the wrong side of the river.

You must be a liberal.

It's not their country. They have no right to be here unless we give them that right, in writing and in advance.

I consider illegal entry of my country just as egregious a crime as illegal entry of my home.

[SivartM]

No, I'm not.

[phkrause]

You must be a liberal.

I guess being a liberal is a bad word? I seem to get the impression from most of Sivarts posts he seems very human and caring to me, so maybe being a liberal is a very ethical thing to be. Keep it up Sivart you are in very good company.

pk