Dr. Shane Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Okay. Well ... you are the moderator here .... so I will graciously abide by your wishes. That was more of a comment than a "moderator" comment. All in good fun. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Originally Posted By: Woody Okay. Well ... you are the moderator here .... so I will graciously abide by your wishes. That was more of a comment than a "moderator" comment. All in good fun. Yes. Well ... I was caught either way. :) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 I'm afraid I'll have to disagree too. I could be a lot harsher with people who act harshly. But that would be sort of contradictory. Kind of like calling people names for bad moral decisions. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Differing political viewpoints are not a problem till those that hold viewpoints destructive to what this country is to stand for. We can always change what this country stands for. We can ban slavery. No,,,, wait,,,, we already did that. We can allow women to vote. No,,,, wait,,,, we already did that. We can require police to read an accused criminal the Myranda rights. No,,,, wait,,,, we did that already too. We can ban segregation. No,,, wait,,, we did that already. We can allow 18 year olds to vote. No,,,, wait,,, we did that already. We can ban discrimination based on race, religion or sex. No,,, wait,,,, we did that already. We can provide the opportunity for every person to go to college or vocational training. No,,, wait,,, we did that already. Yes, I would say we have done a lot of changing of this country over the years. This county stands for freedom and opportunity more than it every has. If you can't make it in America, you can't make it anywhere. Praise God for America and all the change that has happened in its history. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie Differing political viewpoints are not a problem till those that hold viewpoints destructive to what this country is to stand for. We can always change what this country stands for. We can ban slavery. No,,,, wait,,,, we already did that. We can allow women to vote. No,,,, wait,,,, we already did that. We can require police to read an accused criminal the Myranda rights. No,,,, wait,,,, we did that already too. We can ban segregation. No,,, wait,,, we did that already. We can allow 18 year olds to vote. No,,,, wait,,, we did that already. We can ban discrimination based on race, religion or sex. No,,, wait,,,, we did that already. We can provide the opportunity for every person to go to college or vocational training. No,,, wait,,, we did that already. Yes, I would say we have done a lot of changing of this country over the years. This county stands for freedom and opportunity more than it every has. If you can't make it in America, you can't make it anywhere. Praise God for America and all the change that has happened in its history. This country did stand for freedom and opportunity. Freedoms that at some point will be taken from us by the government. Made all the easier by those willing to hand them over to the government. We didn't just provide the opportunity for college.We decided to allow a segment of society to take from others so they did not have to work as hard.My kids were not given what that segment was. They had to work for it Police and the miranda rights?? Talk to Obama admin as to how they want to waive that for some accused citizens in this country. The difference in what we believe Shane is that I believe this country was founded under the guiding hand of God for a distinct purpose.I believe in equal opportunity.Not equal outcome. I believe we shoulld have a president that does not misrepresent what the immigration law or any law involves.A president that does follow the existing laws.A president that does not act like the co-president with a corrupt leader of Mexico. One that defends his own citizens from his twisted logic that allows him to come here and condemn for doing far less than he does.By all means let's take our immigration laws to where he does. Has this country evolved since the founding.Of course. Never to the point we are now heading straight for socialism with Obama and his ilk. You don't seem to believe it is coming and apparently still believe that we will once again be a wealthy nation and then the end will come. Many of us do not.We are sinking in a sea of debt.That probably is a good sign to you as the end will not come as long as we are. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie President Obama as president of this country has bowed and scraped to several dictators. Praise God we have such a humble President. It kind of reminds me of my Savior who stooped to wash the feet of His disciples. Praise God for Obama for such a time as this. The two examples are miles apart.Christ did not bow to any man. Humble must mean something different to you. You can bow to as many men as you wish following Obama's example of trying to ingratiate himself to dictators and and corrupt leaders. Christ did give the example of stooping to wash the feet of another.I don't recall him bowing to the corrupt leaders of his day or when he was on trial. You can follow the example of whoever you wish. If Obama were a humble man he would not mock and taunt any that dare to disagree with him. Christ was the humble example to follow,not a mere man,at least in my book. There are those that have said Obama "is sort of a God" More and more I do believe some have actually elevated him to that position. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Quote: Praise God we have such a humble President. It kind of reminds me of my Savior who stooped to wash the feet of His disciples. Praise God for Obama for such a time as this. It is odd that this "humble" president has chosen to show humility only towards dictators and thugs.Arrogance and rudeness to the Queen of England and Israel. But that aside Shane,you have every right to idolize and by speech or action bow the knee to any man you choose. For me, I think my admiration and respect would be towards those of Daniels stripe. Cannot imagine Daniel bowing to a corrupt dictator/leader or showing the type of almost hero worship you exhibit for a mortal man. So far we are both free to make our decision concerning this. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I believe this country was founded under the guiding hand of God for a distinct purpose. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Christ did not bow to any man. Humble must mean something different to you. Well, Christ never bowed in worship of any man, but He did stoop to wash the feet of His disciples. President Obama wasn't bowing in worship of other world leaders. He was bowing in humbleness. What disturbs me about Obama bowing is that he didn't bow to the queen of England. I think it very disrespectful for him to bow to some world leaders but not others. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 22, 2010 Members Share Posted May 22, 2010 What disturbs me about Obama bowing is that he didn't bow to the queen of England. I think it very disrespectful for him to bow to some world leaders but not others. That was kind of interesting. I've always wondered why, he never has mentioned any reason for this, or has he? pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 Quote: According to Bible prophecy, that purpose is to enforce the mark of the beast. I don't see the guiding hand of God in that. I am not one that believes the US founders are on the same level as the apostles. It is obvious you do not believe God had a purpose for this country other than enforcing the Sunday law. According to bible prophecy what the US would become in the last days and the purpose for this country prior to that are two different issues.No,the founders are not on the same level as the apostles.The extraordinary insight shown by them,their understanding and distain for to much government and the necessity for keeping that government in check I do believe was also under God's direction. Quote: Great. So do I. That is why I support government assistance for low income. Everyone should have the opportunity to eat, have heat in their home, buy a house and go to college. That doesn't mean everyone will choose those things but those things shouldn't be reserved only for the elite and wealthy. Everyone except those physically or mentally handicapped,have the opportunity to eat,have heat,and buy a home and go to college. Poor does not mean ignorant or helpless. Look around you.It is not a case of the elite and wealthy only having those things.It is those individuals that do not that have worked hard and taken responsibility for their own future. No,I don't believe you do believe in equal opportunity over equal outcome. Quote: I am a fiscal conservative, no doubt - much like President George W. Bush, who had the deficit declining for three years prior to the financial meltdown. I don't believe in balancing the national budget on the backs of the poor. No,Bush was not a fiscal conservative. He knew how to spend and spend.He does look like a fiscal conservative compared to what we have now. If you don't want anything on the backs of the poor talk to our current president when he is out of office.Don't sock it to business that will employ the poor. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 Well, Christ never bowed in worship of any man, but He did stoop to wash the feet of His disciples. President Obama wasn't bowing in worship of other world leaders. He was bowing in humbleness. What disturbs me about Obama bowing is that he didn't bow to the queen of England. I think it very disrespectful for him to bow to some world leaders but not others. Christ did not wear the "robe of humility"reserved only for a certain few. President Obama appears to be quite fond of certain types of world leaders.So far he has extended the bow or deference to corrupt leaders and dictators. The queen of England would not have scored well with those he so desperately wants to impress. A humble man is a humble man,no matter what the day or circumstance.The humility of Obama undergoes a transformation depending on who he wants to bestow it on. His deference to the corrupt leader of Mexico was reprehensible. Using it for his own political purposes was more so. As president of the US publically refusing to follow existing federal law and ridiculing those who do is something not seen to date. They at least give lip service to the rule of law. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 His deference to the corrupt leader of Mexico ... Please show the evidence that the Mexican President is corrupt. I hope that isn't a racial comment that since he is Mexican he must be corrupt. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 It is obvious you do not believe God had a purpose for this country other than enforcing the Sunday law. According to bible prophecy what the US would become in the last days Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie His deference to the corrupt leader of Mexico ... Please show the evidence that the Mexican President is corrupt. I hope that isn't a racial comment that since he is Mexican he must be corrupt. That is completely uncalled for remark/question.There is nothing to indicate my dislike of what the mexican president did is a result of race. My two mexican DIL"s and four mexican grandchildren would be a bit surprised to read that. If you have a honest,ethical Person leading the country they would not be having the problems they are Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie His deference to the corrupt leader of Mexico ... Please show the evidence that the Mexican President is corrupt. I hope that isn't a racial comment that since he is Mexican he must be corrupt. It is not just Calderon, it is the entire Mexican government. The phenomenon of corruption is a heavy weight on the country at almost all levels of government. Transparency International’s most recent report indicates that almost half of all Mexicans (43%) profoundly distrust the government’s "anticorruption strategies." Calderon's supposedly tough stance on drugs trafficking may just be a way to get the cartels' bribery paying directly to his administration. Certainly his appeal for more lax immigration policies would not favor any attempt at controlling drugs coming into the US nor arms going back the other way to the cartels. Bribery has reached alarming levels in Mexico. In 2006 more than a quarter of all Mexicans (28%) were forced to pay some type of bribe. This number is far above the equivalent number for countries like Peru, Panama, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Indonesia, Kenya and South Africa. The reality is, it isn't just migrants looking for work that cross our borders - it is well organized and equipped drug operations that make their way across the border. Mexican politicians need subsidies from these cartel leaders and as such condone and even demand a porous border policy from America. That is what it seems Caldaron was seeking from Congress. And it got him a standing ovation from DUMBOCRATS. Maybe too much cocaine for them to think a little bit before rising to their feet. Video of that ovation should play well to conservatives in upcoming elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 It is not just Calderon, it is the entire Mexican government. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 There is nothing to indicate my dislike of what the mexican president did is a result of race. We need to be sensitive to racial issues. Too often white people just blab at the mouth and when they offend minorities are quick to accuse the minorities of being too sensitive. Well, if we talk like racists talk, we shouldn't be surprised when people suspect us of being racists. The current President of Mexico's political platform is all about fighting corruption. Accusing him of favoring corruption is a bit like accusing President Obama of trying to shrink government. It is completely contrary to everything he stands for. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Let's try for something useful here. It is specifically the Mexican government's anti-corruption policy that is distrusted by 48% of the Mexican populace. This is a whole different level of distrust than just a general distrust of bureaucrats. This is saying specifically, "I don't think this government is doing anything useful about corruption IN GOVERNMENT." The governmental corruption is a given. That corruption is not in question. What is being distrusted is the supposed attempt to "fight" corruption. Quote: By MARK STEVENSONAssociated Press Writer updated 7:17 p.m. CT, Mon., May 10, 2010 MEXICO CITY - The reported discovery in cartel hands of a sheaf of police documents containing agents' names and contact numbers, along with apparent references to shared U.S. intelligence data, has renewed fears of high-level corruption in Mexico's war on drugs. The trove of papers — which also included an apparent drug cartel payroll listing police commanders — was found in the car of an associate of Mexico's most powerful drug lord, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, during a May 2009 bust, the newspaper Reforma said Monday. The papers appeared to be internal documents, possibly memos or registers, from Mexico's federal Public Safety Department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie There is nothing to indicate my dislike of what the mexican president did is a result of race. We need to be sensitive to racial issues. Too often white people just blab at the mouth and when they offend minorities are quick to accuse the minorities of being too sensitive. Well, if we talk like racists talk, we shouldn't be surprised when people suspect us of being racists. The current President of Mexico's political platform is all about fighting corruption. Accusing him of favoring corruption is a bit like accusing President Obama of trying to shrink government. It is completely contrary to everything he stands for. There was absolutely nothing I said to indicate racism of any kind. I believe the president of Mexico is corrupt and he leads a corrupt country.I did not say he is corrupt because he is mexican and I don't for one minute believe you took that out of what I said. As to providing you proof I am not going to search now. You are very good at demanding proof but not so when the same is asked of you Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I guess I am making assumptions about others in this discussion that I shouldn't be. I live on the Mexican border and actually watch and read Mexican news reports on a regular basis. So I know so much about the situation and should assume others know as much as me. Mexico's federal Public Safety Department is a bureaucracy like our FBI. It is corrupt. Everyone knows that. That is one of the major sources of corruption President Caldaron has been fighting. There is a difference between saying the FBI is corrupt and saying the Obama Administration is corrupt. President Caldaron, and President Fox before him, have been using the Mexican Army to enforce federal law because the law enforcement agencies are so corrupt. Over the past ten years, some progress has been made in cleaning up many law enforcement agencies but it is far from done. There has been a national hotline set up for people to call if a policeman tries to bribe them and that seems to have helped some. A couple of years ago in a city just about 45 miles down the road from where I live, they called all the police to the central station for a mandatory meeting. Once there the Mexican Army surrounded the building and forced all the police officers to surrender their weapons. Every officer in the entire town was then fired and this is a city with a population over 400,000. The drug cartels do have a lot of police officers paid off. The cartels regularly assassinate sheriffs and the police chiefs that are appointed to local police forces by the federal government. Many of us locally joke a little about being appointed, or "promoted", to such a position. Who would want such an appointment when it is often a death sentence? Indeed, a lot of corruption in the Mexican law enforcement. The cartels do indeed have law enforcement officers paid off. That does not translate to a lot of corruption in the Caldaron Administration, which is what President Caldaron is trying to fight. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 I guess I am making assumptions about others in this discussion that I shouldn't be. I live on the Mexican border and actually watch and read Mexican news reports on a regular basis. So I know so much about the situation and should assume others know as much as me. What you say you know and what my nephew recently living in Nogales and my son living in AZ have an altogether a different viewpoint than yours. As for the mexican president he has shown himself to be rude and accusatory towards the US. It is flat out none of his business to come here and call racism. Read his immigration laws. It might be worthwhile to try the immigration as used in his country.He could not honestly objet to that could he? Any country as corrupt as Mexico should start cleaning at the top and work down. There is little evidence that the claims he is making towards reform is happening Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 There was absolutely nothing I said to indicate racism of any kind. Obviously there was or I would not have made the comment I did. In the future, just apologize for not considering the wording more rather than trying to diminish the feelings of others. There is a good reason so many minorities think all white people are racists. Many white people that are not racist talk the same way the racists do. That confuses minorities. We need to choose our words more carefully. Like accusing the anti-corruption President of Mexico of being corrupt. Why would someone do that? In this case it seems like the character of President Caldaron was being assassinated so that President Obama's character could also be assassinated by means of guilt-by-association. However this uncalled for attack on President Caldaron could easily be interpreted as being racially motivated since a sterotype exists that Mexicans are dishonest. We really need to be aware of existing sterotypes if we don't want to say things that will reinforce them. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 As for the mexican president he has shown himself to be rude and accusatory towards the US. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Quote: Obviously there was or I would not have made the comment I did. In the future, just apologize for not considering the wording more rather than trying to diminish the feelings of others. There is a good reason so many minorities think all white people are racists. Many white people that are not racist talk the same way the racists do. That confuses minorities. We need to choose our words more carefully. Like accusing the anti-corruption President of Mexico of being corrupt. Why would someone do that? In this case it seems like the character of President Caldaron was being assassinated so that President Obama's character could also be assassinated by means of guilt-by-association. Please give me the quote where I said anything indicating that my dislike for the actions of the Mexican president were because he is mexican. I believe that he is corrupt that is why. You may feel he has a right to condemn the US for not wanting illegals swamping our country,I don't and am not required to. Presidents Obama's actions concerning Arizona can stand on their own. He has ridiculed and "mislead" about the content og the immigration law.The mexican president did not force him to do that. Quote: However this uncalled for attack on President Caldaron could easily be interpreted as being racially motivated since a sterotype exists that Mexicans are dishonest. We really need to be aware of existing sterotypes if we don't want to say things that will reinforce them. Who has claimed mexicans in general dishonest? You can interpret whatever you want me to have said. It does not change that I didn't say what are are trying to make it sound like Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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