Michigan Conference suspends funding for LSU Tuition

[abelisle]

I'm wondering if anyone on the executive committee in the Michigan Conference brought up Matt. 18?

Was there any effort at reconciliation at the personal level or is Matt. 18 to be taken figuratively but the literal 6 day creation week literally?

Let's see how the NAD leadership handles this? Isn't it interesting that we can't act locally on WO but have no qualms about dealing with a fellow conference.

Alex (waiting to see if this issue shows up at the GC)

[Woody]

Good Points Alex.

[olger]

Alex.

Let me say this kindly, the 18th chapter of Matthew applies to interpersonal issues between individuals.

Public doctrinal & teaching issues are not addressed in the Lord's counsel in Matthew 18. These are addressed in Corinthians 5, and Galatians 2.

og out

[abelisle]

Sad to say that maybe if there were interpersonal conversations, face to face, that this debacle wouldn't have ended up this way?

And maybe the higher ups in the Michigan Conference should tell their employees face to face that their children who might be students at LSU that their education at LSU will probably be terminated considering the low salaries we pay our workers.

Alex (as they say in the street - "if you have a beef with me, tell it to me in my face" )

[olger]

Alex. While I applaud your recommendation for communication (and agree that communication is good) we must realize that communication alone is helpless to reverse doctrinal error. Morris Venden met with Des Ford for two years (breakfast) and said that he could sense something was wrong with his colleague's theology, but it took a while to put his finger on it. It finally became clear to Venden what the problem was - after communication.

Likewise Jesus' communication with His enemies did not reverse their course. In summary, let us not forget that part of communication is rebuking error (1 Cor 5:1) as the first 39 chapters of Isaiah show us.

regards,

g

[Gregory Matthews]

Alex.

Let me say this kindly, the 18th chapter of Matthew applies to interpersonal issues between individuals.

Public doctrinal & teaching issues are not addressed in the Lord's counsel in Matthew 18. These are addressed in Corinthians 5, and Galatians 2.

og out

There is a personal issue here: Whether or not two (2) Biology professors are teaching doctrinal error. The Michigan Conference should have communicted directly with those two professors prior to taking their position.

NOTE: Every Biology professor at LSU believes and teaches that the Earth was created by God. They do not all believe that this creation took place 6,000 years ago and SDA doctrine does not require a 6,000 year belief.

[olger]

Greg. Are you assuming that the Michigan Executive committee has not done this, or do you know for sure? Also, rebuke of error does not mean that we don't love the person(s).

I have an illustration that may be useful. Perhaps you know Leland Kaiser. Now ol' Leland believes a lot of wierd things. Like an idea stream circling the earth and available to us as we tap into it with our subconscious. Okay, that's kooky. I don't have to go visit him in Colorado and confront him with Matthew 18 to say that his ideas are unbiblical. I also have a neighbor that believes that when a person dies they go to heaven or hell immediately. I don't have to visit him with Matthew 18 to say that I believe his ideas are based on error. People can believe what they want.

But when we place those people in positions to teach us, we breach something vital. Accountability. That is the issue with La Sierra. They become dispensors of error to the youth and we have an obligation to speak out against this.

regards,

g

[Tom Wetmore]

Do you know for sure?

[Gregory Matthews]

1) Yes, I have made an assumption that may be wrong.

2) Your comment on Leland K. is a good illustration: I am well aquainted with him. I have sat in his SS Class and listened to what he said in his SS Class for several years. I have read his Internet comments for several years.

You would be wrong if you were to attempt to judge the content of LK's SS Class by what you read on the Internet.

Judge if you wish, what he says on the Internet by what he says there. But, do not make the mistake of assigning what he says there to what he says in his SS Class.

NOTES:

1) Leland has a tape of every SS Class that he has conducted and if you attempt to make a false claim as to what he said in his SS Class, he can prove your wrong.

2)Do not attempt to say that I am giving any kind of a value judgement to LK or his thoughts or beliefs. in my statements here. I am not. I have my personal opinion, but I am not posting them here.

3) I am well aquainted with the posts that are attributed to LK on the Internet. Are you aware that some of those comments are actually made by others?

[olger]

There are other links on his website, but his blog is his material.

ANyhow, let us not make the illustration the main point - or should we..?

g

[BobRyan]

NOTE: Every Biology professor at LSU believes and teaches that the Earth was created by God. They do not all believe that this creation took place 6,000 years ago and SDA doctrine does not require a 6,000 year belief.

1. All Theistic evolutionists believe that the earth and all life on earth "was created by God" -- just no "directly" -- just not "as the Bible said".

2. It is certainly NOT true that all LSU biology or even religion professors accept a literal 7 day creation week in Genesis 1:1-2:3 and a number of them are on public record on that point.

LSU is most certainly promoting "birds come from reptiles" doctrines on origins in both religion and biology departments.

Does that mean they are doing it right down to the last man or woman teaching in those two departments? I would hope not.

Hope is a good thing in this case.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Sad to say that maybe if there were interpersonal conversations, face to face, that this debacle wouldn't have ended up this way?

And maybe the higher ups in the Michigan Conference should tell their employees face to face that their children who might be students at LSU that their education at LSU will probably be terminated considering the low salaries we pay our workers.

First of all - I don't know of a single professor teaching by-faith-alone devotion to evolutionism at LSU that has not been confronted face to face by at least one parent or student on that point. Professor Bradley's public statements to the press are living proof of just how they have been confronted by such issues in the past.

Secondly - I do not know of any measure for education that says that if Michigan parents do not send their students to LSU for indoctrination into evolutionism by biology and religion department professors -- then their education will be terminated.

I also don't know of any problem with "availability of education" such that "if" the evolution professors at LSU were to teach evolution at some other university instead of LSU -- that the education for students in Michigan "would be terminated".

I can tell you this - the world church of Seventh-day Adventists that met in Atlanta this year was not in favor of creating Adventist teaching institutions for the purpose of spreading the evolution-gospel.

in Christ,

Bob