Second Resurrection = Second Death?

[JoeMo]

For the record - I consider this and other similar theads very interesting and intellectually stimulating. 8thday priest's studies move me to learn more about prophecy. That being said, I don't believe any of the stuff discussed here is salvational. The basic meat (milk?) of the gospel is not this complicated.

[8thdaypriest]

At Second Coming:

Righteous and Wicked are raised.

Wicked judged and then slain by His brightness. Bodies left to burn up with the earth.

The innocent because of immature age, ignorance, or mental disability - will be "the rest of the dead" who will sleep in death UNTIL the 8th millennium.

Beast and False Prophet have dual identity:

Human beings - yes

Channeled by demons - yes

(Sort of like the Prince of Persia of Daniel understood to be the demon behind the throne.)

"Rest of the dead" are sooooo many that they will constitute "nations in the four corners of the earth."

Some from these nations will learn "HIS ways." They will covenant with Christ and will be admitted to the City.

Most from these nations will rebel - at that point becoming "Magog."

Gog is just a man whom Satan will channel to deceive and lead these Hordes to attack the City.

The Hordes come up to attack, and the LORD defends His City.

Interesting that the fire of God will consume all of the wicked, both near the City in the attack, AND all of those living at a distance - who were supporting them.

AND Satan and His demons will be thrown into the lake of fire at Gog-Magog.

AFTER THAT comes the Great White Throne Judgment.

In order to see it chronologically - you have to understand the PURPOSE for the final judgment.

It is closure - for the redeemed.

The wicked are all physically DEAD at that point.

Both the wicked from the first age, and the wicked from the 8th millennium.

But they are only physically dead -

They are NOT YET DEAD - to God.

He (God) has retained the essential download from their memories.

He COULD resurrect them.

That's the question being asked in the final judgment.

SHOULD any of these people be resurrected - ever again - to continue their lives.

The redeemed need to take a final look at the evidence.

Have the Father and His Son done everything possible to win the truth of these people - to bring them to reconciliation with God and His LAW ?

I just do not think that God our Father will destroy billion of human beings WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED.

It is the redeemed who will finally agree with the Father.

Yes - these are rabid dogs. They have refused, and refused, and refused the only possible cure. They will just hurt others, were they to be raised to life again.

Only when the redeemed AGREE, will the Father then proceed with the final annihilation.

DEATH is then thrown into the "lake of fire." But DEATH contains the DEAD.

Who are the DEAD at this point?

The wicked judged at the Second Coming, AND the Magog rebels who attacked the City.

God does NOT NEED to examine books of record !!!

People need to do THAT.

The redeemed need to do that.

That's why I know that this judgment is for them.

Only when they KNOW for certain that there is nothing more that even God Himself can do for these people - will they be ready to let go. Only then will they be able to put it behind them, and move forward into eternity - trusting the Father.

To me - the 6000 year history of the pain and suffering IS THE EVIDENCE that our God WILL NOT manipulate the minds of His created intelligent subjects. If HE was going to manipulate minds - then WHY didn't He just do that with Adam and EVE in the first place - and skip this MESS!!!

If our Father really does and will manipulate minds - then this 6000 years of suffering was for NOTHING!! It was unnecessary!

Hope this helps some.

I have not yet recorded the audio/video teaching on the "Final Judgment - Lake of Fire" but the written study is loaded, and so is the "Gog and Magog" study.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[8thdaypriest]

I don't think the Second Coming can be the ONLY resurrection.

Rev. 20 says "the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL."

That kinda says they "wake up" - "live again" 1000 years later - that's a resurrection.

The QUESTION IS: Who are "the rest of the dead" ?

The SDA position is that they are the wicked from the first 6000 years, who will be raised to face judgment and then annihilation.

I DISAGREE with that position.

I see those confirmed in rebellion against God, raised at the Second Coming to face judgment on THAT day. They will die as the earth is "burned up."

There's a study at my website titled "Judgment Day" which reviews the judgment of the wicked - at the Second Coming.

I believe "the rest of the dead" will be those who are NOT hardened in rebellion - because they did not have enough information, or mental maturity during their lives in the first age - to make those choices.

These will NOT be resurrected, or judged at the Second Coming. They will be raised to continue their lives on this earth, at the 8th millennium - when they will be taught by the "priests of God" and will then choose whom they will serve.

We all KNOW there have been human beings who died in ignorance, in childhood, or in disability - who could NOT choose Christ. Not intelligently.

I don't think the LORD will give a free-pass to one who died as an infant. He would then have to manipulate the mind of that child to make sure he/she will not sin for the rest of eternity. And if He is going to do that - then what's the point of all the suffering and consequences for 6000 years.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

[JoeMo]

8DP,

I have never heard what you are teaching here, so I don't have a lot to add. I am actually comforted by your ideas about the 8th Millennium; and find it scripturall sound (to me, at least). I really enjoy your website and the flow of your studies. I hope you are here at CA to stay. I'm a fan.

[8thdaypriest]

Thanks JoeMo,

The Gog-Magog Battle is a rebellion of the majority of those who are resurrected at the 8th millennium. They rebel against the reign of Christ with His "Kingdom of Priests." Yahweh is simply defending HIS City. The "Hordes" HAVE been warned.

It is most interesting that the "fire" consumes all the supporters of Gog, even over on the coastlands -- NOT just the ones who actually invade the land of Israel.

Many are teaching today that the Gog-Magog Battle will happen BEFORE, or just at the return of Christ in glory. They get it all mixed up with Armageddon.

There are ONLY two places in Scripture where Gog-Magog is mentioned by name. Revelation 20 and Ezekiel 38-39. In Revelation 20, it takes place AFTER the 1000 years. In Ezekiel 38-39, it takes place AFTER Israel is returned to the land.

I am WITH the SDA position that Gog-Magog takes place AFTER the 1000 years of the 7th millennium. Where I differ is that I see these people as raised to continue their lives with Messiah reigning over the nations. Many from these nations WILL come to know Christ, and will be grafted into Israel, just as believing Gentiles are now "grafted in". These are not those hardened into rebellion. Those will be judged and die by "fire" on the day Christ returns in Glory.

See: study titled "Judgment Day" at www.prophecyviewpoint.com.

Here are a few verses telling of Gentiles from the "nations" coming to know the LORD:

Isaiah 11:1-10 The “Rod from the stem of Jesse” will slay the wicked [at the Second Coming]. Then “the wolf will dwell with the lamb” and “the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD.” This “root of Jesse” [Messiah] will “stand as a banner to the people;” and “the Gentiles will seek Him.”

Here the “Gentiles” seek the LORD, in the same kingdom where the wolf dwells with the lamb. This is the Messianic Kingdom.

Amos 9:11-2, Zech. 2:11, Jer. 16:14-21, Zech 8:20-23, Isa. 14:1,

Ezek. 28:25-26, Ezek. 36:33-36, Ezek 37:15-27, Isa. 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-2.

I know that several SDA commentaries say that Ezekiel's Temple was just what might have been IF Israel had reformed, but I think it will be reality. It will be the Temple for those who come up at The 8th Day. They still need a buffer. They are not yet ready to stand in God's presence. The LORD said that His word will not return to Him void.

There are studies at my website, explaining the lifeless 7th millennium, and The 8th Day resurrection of "the nations", and "A Kingdom of Priests" (which explains how Israel redeemed will "rule the nations" with HIM.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[Guest]

So basically you believe in the gospel of a second chance, just like the secret rapture people.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

So basically you believe in the gospel of a second chance, just like the secret rapture people.

I can't speak for 8DP; but I don't infer that he/she is teaching a "second chance" here as much as a valid "first chance". How can someone make a valid decision "for" Christ if they have never heard of Him; or received such misinformation that they only ever learned of a false Christ - be that false Christ the "sissy cry-baby" Jesus or the "wrathful, angry vengeful" Jesus? One needs accurate information to make an intelligent decision. Jesus said we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. How can we worship Him "in truth" if all we ever learned were lies?

[8thdaypriest]

Thanks JoeMo,

Yes - I believe this will be a first chance for all of those who died in ignorance, or as children - before the age of accountability, or for those who were mentally disabled.

Let's say - for instance - that you died as a 10 year old in one of the child sex-slavery Temples of Baal/Asteroth.

You obviously never made a commitment to Yahweh.

Will Jesus simply NOT resurrect you? Will He just leave you dead - like an animal?

Or did He die for you? Are you precious to Him?

So Jesus will resurrect you at the 8th millennium (after the 1000 years) to continue your life. You will live in the Kingdom of Christ on the earth. The government will be the priests (all the redeemed from the first 6000 years.)

You can then learn HIS ways, and enter into covenant with HIM. When your testing period is finished, you would be "changed" - and given a new spiritual body. You could then enter His Sanctuary (Ezekiel's Temple).

Of course - you might rebel against Christ and attack the City. You might be one of the Hordes of Magog. In which case you would be consumed by the Fire of God.

It is interesting I think, that those over 20 years of age died in the wilderness. 20 year olds were NOT counted guilty of same degree of sin as their parents, who refused to enter the land. Does that mean that 20 is actually the age of responsibility in God's sight???? Maybe??

If I am wrong in my understanding then I SHOULD be proven wrong - using Scripture.

I have studied the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel for 35 years. I cannot come up with a better explanation for all those verses which predict that Israel will be "returned to the land" and will THEN witness to the Gentiles - who will be living around them AFTER they return to the land.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[8thdaypriest]

So basically you believe in the gospel of a second chance, just like the secret rapture people.

Actually - there is a study at my website titled "A Secret Rapture?"

In that study I explain the "secret rapture" doctrine, and give my objection to it - from Scripture.

Shalom

Rachel

[Guest]

Jesus said we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. How can we worship Him "in truth" if all we ever learned were lies?

The answer to that is simple. You can't/won't be held accountable for something you never knew. Jesus said that Himself. But the Bible doesn't support the idea of people being left on earth to make a choice AFTER the second coming. It just isn't there.

Oh you can twist it and make it look like it may be saying that, just like the secret rapture people twist it and get it wrong about there being some secret rapture. It's the same principle really.

But this is the only rapture there will be:

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Gibs]

Joe asked, How can we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth?

Well that is a good question. But we do not have any excuse who have come in true repentance and are born anew of that Spirit, His Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

The answer is then come and repent and be born again, He calls lovingly, steadily and long fully.

Yes His Spirit of Truth has come, when He left earth the comforter was sent.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Wonderful promise, John 16:13 above, He guides His into "ALL" Truth. We are blessed above all people who see this!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[8thdaypriest]

Guess who is "twisting" depends on your interpretation.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Shalom

Rachel

[Guest]

I can't speak for 8DP; but I don't infer that he/she is teaching a "second chance" here as much as a valid "first chance". How can someone make a valid decision "for" Christ if they have never heard of Him; or received such misinformation that they only ever learned of a false Christ - be that false Christ the "sissy cry-baby" Jesus or the "wrathful, angry vengeful" Jesus? One needs accurate information to make an intelligent decision. Jesus said we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. How can we worship Him "in truth" if all we ever learned were lies?

Here's a good sermon on it JoeMo:

"Second Coming or Second Chance"

http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/media/e/991/t/second-coming-or-second-chance.aspx

[Felix Florimon]

Those raised "second" - after the 1000 years of the 7th millennium - will be those who lived in ignorance, those who were too immature (children), or too disabled to make an informed choice to follow Christ, during their lives in the first age.

I have not been able to find anything said by Jesus, according to the New Testament, neither in the writings of Paul, Peter, John or James implying that there will be a second chance. On the contrary, Jesus said: "But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked" (Luke 12:48). Also James wrote that: "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them" (James 4:17). Now according to the Apostle Paul: All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares (Romans 2:12-16).

My greatest fear about the "second chance" doctrine is that it will generate many people that will be much more susceptible to believe that Satan, this is Lucifer, is Jesus Christ when Satan decides that it is the right time to impersonate Jesus' second coming.

FF

[JoeMo]

Felix,

You and others are calling this a "second chance" doctrine. When did people who never heard about Jesus, were too young to understand the concept of salvation by grace, or people to whom false religion grossly misrepresent the character of God and Christ ever get a "first chance"? For me, 8DP's posts and website provide feasible answers to questions to which I have never had feasible and scripturally sound answers before. Don't just respond to her short little quips on CA. Go to her website and pick a study - any study. Then you tell me where she is off.

[Felix Florimon]

Felix,

You and others are calling this a "second chance" doctrine. When did people who never heard about Jesus, were too young to understand the concept of salvation by grace, or people to whom false religion grossly misrepresent the character of God and Christ ever get a "first chance"? For me, 8DP's posts and website provide feasible answers to questions to which I have never had feasible and scripturally sound answers before. Don't just respond to her short little quips on CA. Go to her website and pick a study - any study. Then you tell me where she is off.

God's character has been grossly misrepresented since Lucifer, the most powerful and wisest rebellious angel, broke away from God's administration in Heaven. God's character could only begin to be vindicated through God's actions through those who truly believe in Him are obedient to His will.

The real issue is not how 8DP's posts and website view the way the final battle between good and evil, between God and the Devil will finally play out. The real issue is how we, as a group of people, could be enabled, through God's Holy Spirit, to get much closer to our Heavenly Father and become instruments in having our fellow brothers and sisters to be better confirmed in the faith of Jesus and winning much more souls, who know nothing about our Lord Jesus Christ, ready for the kingdom of heavens. We need to be reminded of Jesus' words who said: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters" (Matthew 12:30). The time we would spend putting either traditional SDA's or 8DP's posts and website view on the defensive regarding the final prophetic events, we should be spending such time in trying to obtain a more close and productive relationship with God and getting others to do likewise.

FF

[8thdaypriest]

Let me see if I get what you're saying Felix.

Let's not take the time to read Rachel's studies to see if she is right, BECAUSE that is not important. We should spend our time seeking to draw people closer to God.

Is that right ??

But I think that my studies DO DRAW PEOPLE closer to the Father, because they answer questions about HIM that those people have had since they were teens.

They show that the Father has always had a plan to reach those who were unreached.

It is just NOT POSSIBLE to reach every human being for Christ during this first age. Too many die as children. Too many have already died - unreached. Too many have mental disabilities which make it impossible for them to make an informed choice.

I believe this first age is about calling His priesthood - His "Kingdom of Priests - His Israel. Then He will use those priests to teach and govern "the nations" of the unreached, who will be resurrected at the 8th millennium. Did you know that the original priests (Aaron and his sons) could not minister serve until they completed 7 days of consecration. They began to serve on "the 8th day" - which with God would be the 8th millennium.

I am NOT SAYING that those who lived in stubborn rebellion against God will be resurrected after the 1000 years. I believe Scripture teaches that those individuals will be judged and destroyed on the day that Christ returns in glory. There is a study at my website titled "Judgment Day." It is too long to put all of it here.

I'll just put a couple of verses:

Daniel 12:1-3 “There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people – everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.”

I know that Mrs White said those raised to contempt, will be just those who crucified Christ, but I think it will be WAY many more than that. "Multitudes."

And if they are raised to "everlasting contempt" and then destroyed on that day - WHY raise them up again - 1000 years later to execute them AGAIN?? That seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

Romans 2:5-11 “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God ‘will repay each person according to what they have done.’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” (NIV) [Paul then says that both Jews and Gentiles will receive their due reward or punishment.] “For God does not show favoritism.”

Here the "day of God's wrath"

is the day "when his righteous judgment will be revealed"

is the day when "he will repay each person."

He will reward the righteous with eternal life.

And the self-seeking with "wrath and anger."

And it's all on the same day.

2 Peter 3:7 “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

So - "THE DAY"

of judgment

AND

destruction (perdition)

of ungodly men,

is the SAME DAY when the earth is "burned up."

That's the Second Coming!

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[8thdaypriest]

Here's a verse for you.

Isaiah 61:4-9 “And they shall rebuild the old ruins. They shall raise up the former desolations. And they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. Strangers [non-Israelites] shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner [non-Israelite] shall be your plowmen and your vine dressers. But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD. Men shall call you the Servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast. Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, and instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double [the inheritance of the firstborn].” “Everlasting joy shall be theirs. For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and will make with them an everlasting covenant. Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed.”

When will THIS happen ??

These are NOT Levite priests. Levite priests had NO PORTION in the land.

I believe these will be the redeemed - the LORD's Israel, who will serve as priests to govern the nations, of those raised at the 8th day.

Revelation 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

What need of priests after everyone is saved??

Priests were teachers, mediators, courts of last resort in Israel, helping the people to approach Yahweh.

Revelation 2:26 “And he who overcomes . . . to him I will give power over the nations – He shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the potter’s vessels shall be broken to pieces.”

WHEN do the redeemed "rule the nations" - if they are just resurrected to be executed??

I hope maybe I've put enough here to get folks to come to my website and read through a few studies:

especially "A Kingdom of Priests" and "The 8th Day."

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[Felix Florimon]

But I think that my studies DO DRAW PEOPLE closer to the Father, because they answer questions about HIM that those people have had since they were teens.

They show that the Father has always had a plan to reach those who were unreached.

We will never be able attract new disciples to our Lord Jesus Christ by teaching those who know nothing about Jesus what God is going to do in order to reach those who died who never had an opportunity to know about God and to learn to obey Him. Just the opposite is truthful: We can best attract new converts by teaching them what Jesus has done for us in our own personal lives and what can Jesus do for their lives if they learn to love and serve Him. Jesus' teachings should be so good and so wonderful on us, as a group of believers, that we, as a group of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, should be able to tell atheists, secularists, Muslims, non believers in Jesus who hate and kill each other and those non believers who are innocent but suffer due to such hate and killings the following words: “Come to us, all you who are weary and burdened, and our Lord Jesus Christ will give you rest. Take our yoke upon you and learn from us, for we are gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For our yoke is easy and our burden is light” (Matthew 11:28-30).

FF

[JoeMo]

Felix,

Quote:

We will never be able attract new disciples to our Lord Jesus Christ by teaching those who know nothing about Jesus what God is going to do in order to reach those who died who never had an opportunity to know about God and to learn to obey Him. Just the opposite is truthful: We can best attract new converts by teaching them what Jesus has done for us in our own personal lives and what can Jesus do for their lives if they learn to love and serve Him.

I don't think you understand Rachel's point. You're right - we will never win new disciples to Christ by starting them out on "meat" (non-salvational meat at that). We need to bring the unsaved to Christ by teaching them of His love, mercy, and grace. But once they have buried that truth in their hearts, what's the matter with diving deeper into God's word?

Rachel is right in saying we will NEVER be able to reach everyone on the planet with the Good News. Even if we could reach them all, The Father and Son would likely be grossly misrepresented to many of them by apostate Christianity. Hence, the idea of the Father giving people the opportunity for a first chance to accurately know Him appeals to me.

Rev.20:12-14 says:

Quote:

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

It is unclear from this verses whether the deeds by which they are judged are deeds that took place in their "earlier" life, their resurrected life, or both. I think it's fair game to consider all viable alternatives that do not readily violate scripture. I have learned time and time again that scriptures can have multiple meanings; and sometimes the "real" meaning might be different than how we were taught; or how we perceive it to be.

Do you realize how comforting Rachel's teaching are to those who grieve over family members who may have passed on prior to seriously consider giving their hearts to Jesus? Or parents whose children die before reaching the age of accountability? Or people whose children or other family members or friends who turned their back on the angry and vengeful God they know because they were indoctrinated into a fire and brimstone religion, fearing that God will torture them in some eternal and exquisite manner for falling short of perfection? Don't these unfortunate and deceived individuals deserve a real chance at knowing the real God?

[Felix Florimon]

Felix,

Do you realize how comforting Rachel's teaching are to those who grieve over family members who may have passed on prior to seriously consider giving their hearts to Jesus? Or parents whose children die before reaching the age of accountability? Or people whose children or other family members or friends who turned their back on the angry and vengeful God they know because they were indoctrinated into a fire and brimstone religion, fearing that God will torture them in some eternal and exquisite manner for falling short of perfection? Don't these unfortunate and deceived individuals deserve a real chance at knowing the real God?

The time and manner of comfort will primarily come from God after there is a New Heaven and a New Earth: “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Revelation 21:1-4). I honestly feel that when we try to find comfort in new doctrines that are not unequivocally approved by Jesus' teachings or clearly endorsed by the writings of Paul, John, Peter and James, we could easily end up with another extreme that we been warned about by the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry (2 Timothy 4:3-5).

FF

[8thdaypriest]

Hi Felix,

I do not think that Peter, or Paul could have addressed "The 8th Day" because it was not time for them to understand that plan of God.

They THOUGHT that Jesus would return in their lifetimes. WRONG! And Jesus did NOT correct them. If He had told them that He wouldn't be back for 2000 years, it would have taken all the wind out of their missionary sails.

But "The 8th Day" IS in the Scriptures. It's been there all along. It just was not time for us to "see it." It is only for the very LAST generation.

I personally know several people who had turned away from "traditional" religion. They have been "won" by the message of "The 8th Day." There's a woman here in my little town who is president of the Meals on Wheels charity that takes meals to aged shut-ins. She saw the book at my husbands office and asked to read it. My husband had NO IDEA of her religious background. She absolutely loved the book - and told my husband that it brought her back to the LORD! She said that it proved to her that God IS LOVE. She had lost a teenage son in an accident many years ago, and had lived with uncertainty since then. She is now sharing the book, and the website with everyone in her circle. I live in small town with a heavy Baptist influence. They have lived with a LOT of "fire and brimstone."

One of the other doctors in the office - a neurologist who is an Episcopal elder - also LOVED the book, and is rethinking his theology.

Traffic to my website is growing rapidly - so there must be something about this message and the way it is presented, that is ringing true to folks out there.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[Felix Florimon]

Hi Felix,

But "The 8th Day" IS in the Scriptures. It's been there all along. It just was not time for us to "see it." It is only for the very LAST generation.

8thdaypriest:

When we decide to take a walk with the God so He could be guiding us through the rest of our lives, we need to make certain very important decisions regarding how we consider something coming from God or not.

The first thing I like to keep in mind is what Jesus teaches regarding on how to establish if people speak being guided by God or not. Our Lord Jesus has given a very key instruction on how to establish when someone is guided by God or by self-deception. Moreover, Jesus has given us a very good warning when He said: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them" (Matthew 7:15-20).

However, I have observed many brothers and sisters in Christ (from different Christian denominations) stating that what they say is guided by God. Nonetheless, many of the things they teach are not consistent with others making the same claim.

In order to sort things out, I work under the premise that God does not contradict Himself because if He is the Truth, Truth cannot contradict itself. Therefore, in my walk with God and with fellow believers in Him, I have not choice but to assign each of them something that I have labeled "Spiritual Seniority." The highest "Spiritual Seniority" is in our Lord Jesus who said: "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). The second order of "Spiritual Seniority" I assign it to the Apostle Paul; this is because he officially has been assigned (by our Lord Jesus) as the apostle for the gentiles even though Paul had previously self-assigned himself as one who would be responsible for the destruction of the newly emergent Christian church. I cannot envision how the modern Christian church could have a very coherent theology without the writings of the Apostle Paul in the New Testament of the Bible. The third order of "Spiritual Seniority," I assign it to the Apostle John; he is the Apostle of love through whom I have learned that God is love and that Jesus was just love in flesh and bones. I find it highly interesting that the only apostle that best understood Jesus and God as love was the only apostle that was able to have a natural death during a very advanced old age even though multiple enemies of the Christian faith tried on multiple times to take his life much earlier. The fourth order of "Spiritual Seniority" I assign it to the Apostle Peter who under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit gave us 2 Peter 1:5-7. I truly believe that if as a group of believers in Jesus Christ we were able to fully live up to the challenge given to us in those verses, the days of evil and Satan would be very limited on this world. The fifth order of "Spiritual Seniority" I feel that should be given to James, the writer placed after the book of Hebrews by the Apostle Paul. I understand the Old Testament through the "eyes and understanding" of those five humans as it is written in the New Testament with the understanding that Jesus does not only shares our human nature but He also shares the Father's divine nature.

Now, I am also a Seventh Day Adventist. This means that, based on my own spiritual development, I have to consider sister White's writings as writings having a great deal of weight regarding its teachings of how the final battle between good and evil will finally play out. We both have an advantage that she did not have. We are closer to the end of this battle and both of us have the ability to see in this battle certain details that she did not write about. However, she has an advantage on us. This that her writings are about one century old and personally I have met hundreds and hundreds of fellow believers whose lives have been greatly blessed by her writings. This means that her writings, in the lives of many hundreds of thousands followers of Jesus Christ during the last century, is highly consistent with how we should consider her writings according to Jesus own teachings in Matthew 7:15-20. To take her writings out regarding how the future battle between good and evil without a very distinct and clear divine mandate from heavens will have a very negative spiritual repercussion in my own spiritual development and in the spiritual development of millions of "spiritual babies" that are just learning to take their first steps to Christ.

Based on your own testimony and the testimony of Joemo, I feel that "The 8th day" concept is a concept that is good for those who have fallen from their path of walking with God because their spiritual lives have been poisoned by "traditional religious thinking" and because they can be "connected back" to greatly admire, love and worship the God with serve. However, at the end, God will be the final judge of whom is really seeking to worship Him in Spirit and truth and who has abandoned Him in order to enter in a spiritually self destructive path of deception.

Nonetheless, as long as we ask God His help in having Him as the most important thing in our lives and end up in doing what Jesus asks us, this is to first seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness, there is nothing we need to be afraid regarding the future.

FF

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

Whew!!!! I'm exhausted just reading through all of this thread. Nico, you have an amazing mind.

Nico was very dear to me during the time she was here, back around 2005. She planned to attend Andrews U. for a degree in theology. I haven't seen her post here since, unless she is writing under another user name. Both her and Sid sent lightning bolts into my heart via the now-deleted Desire of Ages study. I'll always be grateful to them for that incident which redirected my ambivalence toward spiritual matters.

My thinking about resurrections is that our memories and DNA codes are transmitted via Spirit, then stored in the Temple complex located out in space somewhere. For YHVH to re-assemble human beings from their stored DNA codes and to then download their individual memories would not be difficult, even on a massive scale. This could not be done without Spirit, though. Spirit, then, is the Creative/Healing/Life-Sustaining force that YHVH uses to connect himself to the universe.

Essentially, resurrecting someone would be cloning, or, reincarnation. It seems like 20 years old would be a reasonable age to resurrect everyone who made it that far, but I suppose there would be a lifetime of memories downloaded into these youthful bodies. I don't believe clothing would be part of the resurrection process in the 2nd resurrection.

For those chosen to be members of the Kingdom of YHVH, one might suspect that most of their memories of life on Earth would be deleted before entering their new life. Perhaps this deletion of mental garbage would leave them with the minds of children, humble, obedient, and teachable. The deletion of our sense of self occurs, I believe, when one washes up in the River of Life, the real baptism. That would be a solemn moment, just before jumping into the clear water and drinking it, an irrevocable decision.

When one is transformed, possibly physically into children, we might expect them to no longer possess any of their previous DNA. They would have totally new bodies, clones of a master design. Then, no one would have any advantage over another. All unsexed look-alikes, they would need to carry ID and password info via their personal “white stone”.

[Green Cochoa]

It looks like we need some facts here. Opinions based on what seems right or logical are never safe platforms by which to judge truth. "There is a way the seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

Fortunately, we are not left to work this out without help. God has told us precisely what will happen to some who have not had opportunity to accept Him, nor have they been in conscious rebellion against Him.

I saw that the slave-master would have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and all the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been; while the master has to suffer the seven last plagues, and then come up in the second resurrection, and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the wrath of God will be appeased. {1SG 193.1}

There is no second chance, even for the sad cases of ignorant folk who died without knowing God and who had no opportunity to follow their own consciences relating to right and wrong. But God will not raise them up to endure punishment again when they were not given proper opportunity to know and serve Him.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.