SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 They are supposedly talking into our brains (or something) all the time, yet somehow yet undetected by science. The idea sort of contradicts everything we know about neuroscience and psychology. Just how do undetectable beings (that sounds weird enough as it is) put thoughts in our brains? Do we even need them to? If I'm tempted to do something, I see it as coming from my brain, not from someone whispering in my ear. I ask this because I was reading where someone was talking about Derren Brown (look him up on Youtube; he's really cool), a mentalist who does a lot of crazy mind tricks, and they thought that he was followed around by demons who possessed the minds of the people he hypnotized. Explaining things like hypnotism, which have perfectly reasonable scientific explanations (and I'm not promoting hypnotism here), with such a simplistic idea is strange to me. It's like kicking science in the face. And it's sort of like kicking angels in the face too; why do we have to blame them for everything that we think? I do hope that someone can make sense out of this rambling. What do you all think? Do angels and demons talk into our brains or is that a rather outdated idea? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 It reminds me of alternative healing practises. They have effects that are unmeasurable (by instruments) as well. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Allan Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 There is much we don't know about the human brain. Angels and demons, I think, are aspects of our brains which we do not understand, of which we are unconscious. dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Share Posted July 12, 2010 Sivart, This reminds me of a question I always ask my doctor friends who went to Loma Linda Medical School - "How do your classes in psychiatry deal with the concept of demonic possession?" Their answer has always been that it hasn't and if touched on, is relegated to the area of MPD's (multiple personality disorders) We have examples of this happening in the Bible and in our modern times. Is it just a term that's used to explain something that transcends the preternatural reality of evil? Also, you didn't ask the question of whether angels and demons can "read" our minds or does a very careful examination of our actions and words make this unnecessary? Alex (heard any voices lately? We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 12, 2010 Members Share Posted July 12, 2010 Demonic possession is different than MPD. Alters are not necessarily evil. I think the Holy Spirit (not angels) can put thoughts in our minds. For example, feeling the need to pray for someone at a specific time, only to find out later that the person had been in danger at that moment. Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 How does anyone put thoughts in our mind without violating our free will? Maybe the way God/angels/whoever puts things into our minds is through subliminal messages, like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg I'm not sure if posting a video is allowed, but since this one is originally unrelated to the discussion, I think it might be okay... But do you think that maybe that's how thoughts get put in our minds? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 12, 2010 Because unless you give yourself completely over to Satan, he can't force you to do anything against your will. Demons can put thoughts and suggestions in your mind, but you have the freedom to reject them. They can't force you to sin. But if people play around with things they know to be wrong, Satan claims those things to be invitations or permission to come into people's lives. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Why aren't people ever capable of having good or bad thoughts without creatures whispering in their ears? Where does the Bible say that angels and demons put thoughts in our minds? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 Quite amazing process of idea induction shown by that short video. All of the sensory input is an avenue. The old whispering in our ear by a being on our shoulder seem rather limited. One might ask what extra-dimensional stimuli are we actually able to subconsciously receive. With our understood physical senses it is obvious how little it takes to plant an idea in our mind without conscious awareness. Perhaps we have extra-dimensional senses that exist outside of our conscious perception. We may have a connection to other dimensions that does not translate to our 4 perceived dimensions very clearly but in fact intersects with those 4 dimensions in such a way that actions within those other dimensions do effect one or more of our 4 dimensions. Perhaps an imperfect analogy would be the emotional dimension of our existence. A single visual, sound, touch or smell from the physical dimensions outside of us that has no direct connection to us currently, stirs a deep emotional response inside of us. That emotional response causes us to act or respond in very tangible ways. That the emotional response happens completely within us, stimulated by something outside of us, strikes me as like an intersection with another dimension. There is no spacial intersection, but it is nonetheless an intersection of stimuli from outside of us that has a response in the dimension inside of our brain. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 In Luke 22:3 it says that Satan entered Judas. Then it says, "So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them." v4 John 13:27 also mentions that Satan entered him (Judas). Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm not really talking about events like that where someone is actually possessed (although, who knows what that really means? Did they have a word for "mental illness" back then?), I really mean things like the idea of having a bad thought, and it must have come from a demon that follows you around whispering in your ear. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i have had some experiences that tell me that good and bad angels "whisper" to us. i think that it is outside of us rather than telepathy... a couple of times ive caught thoughts that were "subvocal", i just barely caught them then they were gone...it certainly seemed to come from outside me... the thoughts, good and bad, do seem to be our own, to come from us most of the time, but i do know i have argued with certain thoughts ive had... good topic... oh this is toms forum...ill have to make a mental note so i avoid quotes.... :) facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 I think I understand what you are saying. It is the process or means by which those beings can enter us or even communicate with us that is the question. Until I saw a movie depiction of Abraham's call, I had never given it much thought of what it would be like to have God or an angel speak to me. Would I hear a voice new to me that I had never heard before? That could be very disturbing. Interestingly the movie "voice" of God speaking to Abraham was Abraham's voice, as if he was hearing himself speaking to himself. It occurred to me that in those times when I have had a very clear impression, out of the blue so to speak, to do something, the "voice" of the thought was not unfamiliar, but more my own internal voice. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 I hear you, Tom. I have had impressions, too. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i didnt see the video sivart, but my opinion regarding putting thoughts in our mind isnt that...i mean thoughts are suggested, we either accept or reject them, and face the consequences... thats part of the reason that sometimes i listen to certain songs i use to, or watch certain movies....i want to see what thoughts i may have accepted that i am still living by but have affected my life negatively. i attended a certain seminar in the early 80s where i picked up some really good info. i think. one of the points they made was that any devastating event in our lives was not what wrecked our lives. what hurt us was the thoughts we accepted about that event. then whenever something similar comes up we go on automatic. we have essentially nullified our power of choice in that area. the more negative thoughts that we take on over our lifetime, the more negative, damaged, our life. i believe that is how a person becomes demon possessed...not by some being literally coming into my body and taking over, but by my constantly accepting the suggestions of the enemy and rejecting the suggestions of my "good" angel. facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 That's exactly it, teresaq... of course I know that supernatural beings can "communicate" with us in some way, but are they actually placing thoughts in our minds (why can't we place thoughts in other people's minds?), and are they actually, physically, literally following us around and talking to us, or is that just an explanation to those with far less knowledge about how the brain works? It's like the "do angels have wings" thing... on the one hand, the Bible clearly describes them as having wings, but then again, maybe wings are just a symbol of something? Who knows? (And I do know that there's another thread for that, so I won't say any more.) "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 My main concern is that the person I was talking to about this earlier basically said that because of the whole angel-whispering thing they pretty much disbelieved in brain science. When we get stuck in traditional and unprovable assertions like that, we don't need to study how our minds work because they just work by having thoughts inserted into them by God or Satan or angels or demons or whoever. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i do tend to think "they" follow us around and "talk" to us... my own personal conclusion some time back is that we just arent that smart to come up with half the atrocities we have over these thousands of years. are you wondering if we have any thoughts of our own? facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i skimmed that conversation briefly, i tend to read very little that particular person, and some others say...gotta be careful about being "dumbed down", brainwashed, and negative thinking... the warnings we are given are taken at their superficial value without any real understanding as to what egw is saying and means--that takes some real effort to search and a lot of mental effort to think....much easier to read something and think we know what it means... :) facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 And even then we can only judge according to the information we have. It's not often that we have the complete story. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 You said that they write down OR record in some way our thoughts, but I don't think that the original source (this is the Original Thoughts forum, by the way) said anything about alternate interpretations. Angels must write down our actions. In big books. Or maybe the whole "writing" thing was just a way to make less technologically advanced people understand as well as possible. And we don't know how they record things. Which is my point in this thread... By the way, why can good angels read our minds, but bad angels can't? Aren't they pretty much the same kind of creature? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 yes gail, i agree. having lived so long now i find that more and more info comes, which sometimes stabilizes us into some view or radically changes that view... facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 Just keep pondering, Sivart! You got some deep thinking happening there! Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 12, 2010 Administrators Share Posted July 12, 2010 To the secular person we all sound a bit loony. If we say that God or a being that we can't see or touch spoke to us, that we hear a voice, they are dialing for the men in white coats to take us away. So how do you convey to such a person these concepts in a way that they might actually accept it? Other analogies that help me understand communication outside of our conscious perceptual range are ultrasonics and infrasonics, the electromagnetic spectrum, etc. While we may not be able to hear certain sound outside of our auditory range it is possible for us to actually feel such sound frequencies. Likewise even though we may not be able to see beyond the narrow light spectrum, or "hear" radio waves, they are there nonetheless. And man has invented ways to detect and harness those things in way that were totally outside the realm of man's thinking even a century or so ago. Maybe communication with other beings falls in a spectrum of this sort. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 good point. we can take it for granted that good angels can read our mind, but isnt that more of an assumption on our part? maybe whats going on is a recording of the 3-way conversation thats continually going on-thats based on my belief that good and bad angels do follow us around and talk to us. what i mean is, say some evil angel wants to tempt us to do something and the good angel counters with whatever. the angel is just recording the encounter with the final result... as for how the brain works, we dont see actual thoughts going on in the brain... facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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