Critics Still Wrong on What’s Driving Deficits in Coming Years

[Dr. Shane]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

I see it kind of like the young sixteen-year girl that goes to a rock concert and is seduced by the world-famous rock star. She comes back stage to get his autograph, he gets her liquored up, she consents to having sex with him and she gets pregnant.

Des she have any responsibility in getting pregnant? Of course she does. But he used his star-power with alcohol and a few more years of life experience to convince her to do what he wanted. Clearly he is more to blame.

I see the banks getting people to borrow money pretty much the same way. The banks have been taking advantage of a population that has been groomed to do exactly what the banks want them to do. If someone like Dave Ramsey was allowed to teach financial responsibility to all our nation's youth at the high school level, the next generation would do things much differently.

[Neil D]

Shane....I think you might be a bit off here....

...Come on...Banks as rock stars???? Nah...

I think that we can agree, the banks were giving out loans as cheaply as one could afford them...and people had the oddity to desire a home....and didn't have enough saved to make it thru rough times nor did the banks look hard enough at people's economic situation to question their status if the economy took a downturn....

It's greed all the way around...people wanted a home and not an appartment....banks wanted the money and the interest....It looked like it was a match made in heaven, but instead, the devil got ahold of the details to the contract....and everything, and everyone went south...

[Dr. Shane]

A man walks into a bank or a reality office and says he wants to buy a home. They sit down and review his income and current debts to discover how much he can afford for a payment. They base the payment on a 30-year loan. They take him around town and show him the homes available that he can "afford". Reality agents are the worst. They sell him the biggest home (loan) they know they can get approved. He ends up in debt up to his eyeballs. The worst is that when he takes his wife along they sell her and once the wife wants a home the husband has no choice in the matter.

Then, as soon as they build up some equity, the bank starts pitching them home equity loans. Flashing exotic vacations, luxurious home remodeling projects, travel trailers and other big-kid toys in front of them so that they extend themselves further.

Do we even want to talk about what goes on when a man walks onto a car lot with his wife?

Americans are suckers for sure but we are groomed to be that way. Unless someone like Dave Ramsey comes along and hits us in the head with a 2x4, we are led around like a bull with a ring in his nose.

[bonnie]

A man walks into a bank or a reality office and says he wants to buy a home. They sit down and review his income and current debts to discover how much he can afford for a payment. They base the payment on a 30-year loan. They take him around town and show him the homes available that he can "afford". Reality agents are the worst. They sell him the biggest home (loan) they know they can get approved. He ends up in debt up to his eyeballs. The worst is that when he takes his wife along they sell her and once the wife wants a home the husband has no choice in the matter.

[Dr. Shane]

Enjoying the Ramsey 'cool aid'??

[Dr. Shane]

Have yet to meet a banker or real estate agent as you describe.

[bonnie]

You have. You just don't know it. They're good. So good, you'll think you have never met one.

[Dr. Shane]

Some Islamic extremists actually kill rape victims so that she doesn't shame the family. That kind of thinking is common place in America too. Victims are often blamed while the perpetrators are excused.

[bonnie]

Some Islamic extremists actually kill rape victims so that she doesn't shame the family. That kind of thinking is common place in America too. Victims are often blamed while the perpetrators are excused.

The need for victims grows. Personal responsibility is unknown today. Blame your parents,your banker,credir card company,the drugs someone forced you to take,To have so many villians requires a continued supply of victims.

If they do not know they are a victim,be sure to explain otherwise.

[Dr. Shane]

Victims are real. So are cold-hearted people that blame them.

[bonnie]

Victims are real. So are cold-hearted people that blame them.

We have so many victims it is hard to tell who isn't.

Even tho children from parents at the poverty level can go to college easier than the middle class,they are somehow victims.Blaming everyone for their own lack in pursuing a education or trade.

Even as easy as pregnancies are to prevent now,the unwed mother is a victim. Not of her own behavior but simply because.Financial support is available,day care etc for the unwed mother that wants to better herself. When she doesn't it is someone else's fault.Expecting her to complete her education so she can be self supporting is unreasonable and cold hearted.

If my take home pay is 300.00 per week and I commit to a mortgage payment of 1200.00 per month it is the fault of a real estate agent that snared me off the street corner and made me sign to purchase the house. Or the banker that held a gun to my head and forced me to sign for something I knew I could not afford.

The banker also must have snared me to buy those big toys when I knew I didn't have the money.

Those credit card companies had no business forcing me to sign for the privilege of using their money.

It looks like a "victim" is the in thing to be of late. What was once known as immaturity,irresponsibility and stupidity is now known as "victim".

Seems to work for a lot of folks.

[Dr. Shane]

We were talking about how corporate America entices Americans to spend money they don't have. 43% of Americans spend more than they make each year. The average American household has $8,000 in credit card debt. The average American household owes over $18,000 not including mortgage. Now that is either a lot of stupid people or corporate America has been up to something that isn't good.

[bonnie]

We were talking about how corporate America entices Americans to spend money they don't have.

[Dr. Shane]

It looks like 43% of the american people are victims of something.

Indeed they are. Corporate America studies human behavior and markets its products in ways to entice you to do what they want. many Americans do not even understand or perceive they are being manipulated. It is all over. The color of labels on products in the grocery store. The voice inflections on the radio commercial. Corporate American has become a puppet master creating a giant hole of debt for the American people.

Is there a solution?

Indeed.

His name is Dave Ramsey.

Do you know him? No?

Well perhaps you should. Google him.

Love him.

Drink the Kool-aid and watch your bank account grow.

Never have to worry about money again.

Know freedom like few do.

[bonnie]

Indeed they are. Corporate America studies human behavior and markets its products in ways to entice you to do what they want. many Americans do not even understand or perceive they are being manipulated. It is all over. The color of labels on products in the grocery store. The voice inflections on the radio commercial. Corporate American has become a puppet master creating a giant hole of debt for the American people.

Anyone that can add and subtract with a calculator should be able to figure out,No I don't have the money. Pretty easy to blame corporate america for their own greed,desires and just plain foolishness.

If you drive yourself deep into debt over the color of food labels or inflections on the radio commercials you probably are not competent enough to handle your own financial affairs

Is there a solution?

Yes,Practice responsible behavior.

His name is Dave Ramsey.

I don't indulge in this kind of hero worship. I need to be accountable for my own actions. I have know for quite sometime that 2+2 will always equal 4.

Do you know him? No?

Don't plan on it either

Well perhaps you should. Google him.

Love him.

Really is unnecessary.

Drink the Kool-aid and watch your bank account grow.

I will leave the kool-aid to you. You have no idea of what my bank account says

My bank account is doing fine. Long before Dave Ramsey became your idol we figured out how to pay for our home 15 years ahead of time. That alone has been one of the wisest things we did

Never have to worry about money again.

Know freedom like few do.

Again,you are not the go-to person for me if I am worried about anything.While I did not go to college,neither did my husband,we did learn to add and subtract. Neither of us looked for another to blame when we made a foolish decision.

We learned our lesson and went on

[Dr. Shane]

[Dr. Shane]

[bonnie]

WOW,that is a novel concept

[fccool]

I do believe that the only way to control deficit is in fact prevent Government from having that option. The idea is stupid all together. Government could simply inflate the currency if they did need some money, instead of hiding the effects in a debt bubble that will inevitably collapse.

By the show of hands, how many of you actually believe that Government will ever pay that debt off based on their track record over past couple decades?

[fccool]

Dave Ramsey does not address the core of the issue, he only deals with the problems on the side of the public sector. The financial sector and government sector are not accountable to us in any way. We can't even have an audit of the Federal Reserve .

[bonnie]

Dave Ramsey does not address the core of the issue, he only deals with the problems on the side of the public sector. The financial sector and government sector are not accountable to us in any way. We can't even have an audit of the Federal Reserve .

You can't control the government and financial sector. What you can control is your own personal spending.

It sounds as if Dave Ramsey blames everyone except those that have mired themselves in debt.

Without being able to audit the Federal Reserve my husband and I seemed to be able to mange without doing that.

Most important was paying off our home instead of paying for thirty years.That can be done quite painlessly.

Only bought cars we could pay cash for.Didn't matter what car dealerships were offering,we could add and subtract.

We didn't let the banker grab us my the hair and force us to sign any home equity loan.

The real estate agents we worked with all asked the same question first,"What price range are you interested in."

You can still control your financial situation if you choose to.Or you can blame everyone else.

[Dr. Shane]

Dave Ramsey does not address the core of the issue, he only deals with the problems on the side of the public sector.

That's right. Dave Ramsey's ministry is primarily based on teaching individuals and family's how to manage their personal finances. He has his opinions about government spending but that is not the thrust of his ministry.

[Dr. Shane]

It sounds as if Dave Ramsey blames everyone except those that have mired themselves in debt.

Dave Ramsey is all about personal responsibility. He is known for saying, "I know stupid. I've seen him in my mirror."

[LifeHiscost]

You can still control your financial situation if you choose to.Or you can blame everyone else.

While I admit, Bonnie, it is a prevalent societal phenomenon that everyone and everything else is held by some to be responsible for what goes wrong in people's lives, what I am not picking up from you is that, while God has gifted you with a measure of common sense, He is not being given credit for intervening for your sake, despite your lack.

Is that true or am I just not recognizing your superior qualifications?

Just asking.

"....we all fall short.... "

Romans 3:23 NLT

"... it is God who works in you both to will and to do...His good pleasure."Philippians 2:13 NKJV

"Help carry one another's burdens, and in this way you will obey the law of Christ. If you think you are something when you really are nothing, you are only deceiving yourself. You should each judge your own conduct. If it is good, then you can be proud of what you yourself have done, without having to compare it with what someone else has done."Galatians 6:2-4 GNT

Joy!!

[bonnie]

Quote:

While I admit' date=' Bonnie, it is a prevalent societal phenomenon that everyone and everything else is held by some to be responsible for what goes wrong in people's lives, what I am not picking up from you is that, while God has gifted you with a measure of common sense, He is not being given credit for intervening for your sake, despite your lack.

Is that true or am I just not recognizing your superior qualifications?

Just asking.[/quote']

No it is not true and I was unaware that I have superior qualifications.

I am well aware without God any "superior qualifications" would not get me very far.Would a paste an copy of several bible verses give you a better impression?

What I did have as well as a christian upbringing was parents that would not tolerate blaming someone else for a mess you got yourself in,and in addition "superior poverty".The surest way to be on the receiving end of some unpleasant discipline was to try to blame another.

Very early in life I learned life is not fair so get used to it,no one owed me anything,no one but me was responsible for my actions.

A childhood of going without what most would consider necessities did teach me how to be frugal.

If I had been stupid enough to buy beyond my means I would deserve whatever was the result. It would not have been the real estate agent,the banker or the advertisers to blame.