Fundamental Fundamental Beliefs

[Overaged]

I would be interested to see what others think are the most essential Christian doctrines that Adventists should believe in.

When I was baptized, there were only 13 fundamental beliefs; later there were 21, then 27, and now 28.

I have provided a poll in this topic to generate discussion, and hopefully make one or two initial points about this question.

[Woody]

I feel bad for those that died when there were only 13.

[Dr. Shane]

Belief in the Bible covers them all.

[phkrause]

Belief in the Bible covers them all.

Good point Shane, I was trying to figure out how to vote for all of them and it was stairing me in the face the whole time and I didn't even see it. :(

[Overaged]

LOL, you make an interesting point with that comment.

The book I have with the "Thirteen Vital Points Of Faith" was copyrighted in 1982.

[BobRyan]

In 1872 - 25 Beliefs

In the 1889 year book there were 25 Fundamental Beliefs - in 28 sections.

In 1905 - 28 Beliefs in 28 sections

In 1931 there were 22.

Then in 1980 there were 27

In 2005 - 28.

One of the things that drove them to reduce 25 (or 28) down to 22 was the fact that a few of the doctrines were spread out over multiple Belief statements. (For example the Sanctuary Doctrine spread out over 4 statements of Belief). When they consolidated that into 1 belief - the total number went down.

in Christ,

Bob

[Overaged]

Thx Bob for this post. It brings out yet another interesting point. Not that I doubt what you posted; but as it happened in my case, which was 1982, I only had to deal with 13 beliefs. If we did have more "official beliefs" than thirteen, that particular year, it is interesting that my Pastor at the time only asked baptismal candidates to consider 13. I don't have time to list the 13 tonight, but this is one of the things I have always appreciated about the Adventist Church; is that Pastors can exercise some "discretion" like this by only studying 13 beliefs, when there were more. I wonder if there are any Pastors today who do similar things? I think that exercising this kind of discretion is wise; and affords sometimes, better opportunities to help people connect with Jesus...In my case, I didn't have the capacity, when I was baptised to try and grasp more! I was just fresh off the streets and out of the bars...

BTW Do you have references at all for the facts you gave us above? I am interested in history of doctrinal development...

[aldona]

In 1872 - 25 Beliefs

In the 1889 year book there were 25 Fundamental Beliefs - in 28 sections.

In 1905 - 28 Beliefs in 28 sections

In 1931 there were 22.

Then in 1980 there were 27

In 2005 - 28.

One of the things that drove them to reduce 25 (or 28) down to 22 was the fact that a few of the doctrines were spread out over multiple Belief statements. (For example the Sanctuary Doctrine spread out over 4 statements of Belief). When they consolidated that into 1 belief - the total number went down.

in Christ,

Bob

Let's say you have some disagreements with a particular "fundamental belief."

Then it is dropped from the list of beliefs.

Then 20-30 years later it is back on.

Then a few years later it is off again.

Then another 10 years later it is back on.

Are you an Adventist in good standing, or not?

Does it depend on its status when you were born? Or when you were baptized? Or when you died (and thus probation closed for you)?

AJ

[BobRyan]

Actually - I was trying to point out - that NO belief has been dropped - what happened is that beliefs have been added, and prior formats have changed so that 3 or 4 beliefs have been grouped together into one - that basically has all the verbage that the 3 or 4 used to have. Which is why some of our belief statements are short - and others seem to be very long.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Thx Bob for this post. It brings out yet another interesting point. Not that I doubt what you posted; but as it happened in my case, which was 1982, I only had to deal with 13 beliefs. If we did have more "official beliefs" than thirteen, that particular year, it is interesting that my Pastor at the time only asked baptismal candidates to consider 13.

[lazarus]

I know of a pastor who has written a 29th fundamental belief. Its working its way through the system. For me, now that we have 28 it seems that the word fundamental no longer applies. Fundamental means core or of central importance. God himself stopped when he arrived at 10!

We need to cut it down to something like 10

I got some strange looks in my ordination when I said I really don't know why there are 27 fundamental beliefs. There was silence for "about half an hour" but no one challenged me and I still got ordained.

[Overaged]

To see/hear William Johnson tell you just how the 27 Fundamental Beliefs are applied - click these two links - in about 4 minutes of viewing - you will have the complete picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzUWz9E_Tnc&feature=related

skim to the 7minute point for two minutes of facinating viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UywBEpJLdR0&feature=related

watch from the very start for about 2 minutes.

Hope that helps give context for just how they are used.

Well; I will say one thing, "Dr" Martin has a nice looking toupe'

By the nature of your linked referrals to anti-Adventist cults; it looks like you have some kind of axe to grind here; you talk of how the Church's Fundamental Beliefs are used, as if there is something wrong with it. Did Johnson do something wrong by turning to authoritative statements on our official beliefs? What is it you are wanting the Church to do instead as it tries to explain what we believe? It is one thing to critisize; quite another to talk about a solution.

[Overaged]

I know of a pastor who has written a 29th fundamental belief. Its working its way through the system. For me, now that we have 28 it seems that the word fundamental no longer applies. Fundamental means core or of central importance. God himself stopped when he arrived at 10!

We need to cut it down to something like 10

I got some strange looks in my ordination when I said I really don't know why there are 27 fundamental beliefs. There was silence for "about half an hour" but no one challenged me and I still got ordained.

LOL, hey Lazarus; you likely got those same looks I got when I preached the shortest sermon in Adventist history. It was just three words. In my mind; it summed up all of our fundamental beliefs. Here is the verbatim text of that sermon:

"Love one another..." Plus; I sat down to preach this sermon; because there is a verse in the new testament that shows Jesus doing the same...

[Overaged]

I have been reading a book called "Believe His Prophets," by D.E. Rebok. I am enjoying this book a lot, but I found a comment the author made to be very interesting. Rebok states:

Quote:

In thinking about Christianity we come to the conclusion that we must begin with those three basic concepts.

The first and most important is a belief in the existence of God.

It looks like it is almost a tie in this thread's poll where the one side thinks that belief in God is #1, and the other side thinks that belief in the Bible is #1.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Woody]

Interesting that 'belief in the church' is zero.

[Overaged]

LOL. Hi Woody! How are you!

I have an answer for what you just said; but Club Adventist might get ANGRY with me if I say it!

[John317]

Belief in the Bible covers them all.

Exactly. It is impossible to truly believe in the Bible and not believe in God, the Second Coming, Judgment, or the Church.

On the other hand, many many claim to believe in God but reject the Bible or don't accept it as inspired.

[John317]

It looks like it is almost a tie in this thread's poll where the one side thinks that belief in God is #1, and the other side thinks that belief in the Bible is #1.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Yes, as Shane said, the Bible really covers it all, including the belief in God. There are many who say they believe in God but they don't accept any of the others on the list because they don't accept the Bible. Acceptance of the Bible as God's inspired Word is therefore the key.

[Overaged]

Sometimes too, as it happened with me; I read the Bible for a while, and that seemed to be what cemented my belief in God.

But I guess it's debateable too how that I had to have somehow believed in God first.

I suspect that God can have His way with us through any of the means mentioned in the poll; including the Church.

[Overaged]

I must confess, that it is a little hard to decide exactly how this works Shane. I am looking forward to more discussions/feedback from others on this.

For eg., I have also been reading a very old booklet, by J Vernon McGee, called "The Loveliness Of Jesus." It is things like this that can establish/strengthen my belief in God. And yet, I had two serious accidents in two weeks, a few months back. And one person I told the story to said: "There has to be a God or you'd be dead!" This was a person who has never picked up a Bible!

Perhaps; it is like Genesis says: "In the beginning, was God..."

[Woody]

LOL. Hi Woody! How are you!

I have an answer for what you just said; but Club Adventist might get ANGRY with me if I say it!

Ahhh Overaged ... you're among friends here. Speak your mind brother. Let it all hang out.

[Overaged]

quote=Overaged]LOL. Hi Woody! How are you!

I have an answer for what you just said; but Club Adventist might get ANGRY with me if I say it! /quote]

Ahhh Overaged ... you're among friends here. Speak your mind brother. Let it all hang out.

Allright then!

Earlier today, my wife had to admit to me that I WAS RIGHT about something. Plus; I had to admit that I was wrong about something, to someone else.

How would the "most important doctrine" according to poll results of this thread come into play here? What scenarios can you imagine for this kind of life-changing event?

Or, if you don't think it would be relevant; which doctrine/s would be? Would any of the "Fundamental Beliefs" apply?

[Gerr]

Belief in the Bible covers them all.

So we can just strike down the 28 and just put this one in their place?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Belief in the Bible covers them all.

So we can just strike down the 28 and just put this one in their place?

I have to say ... I'm with Shane on this one.

[phkrause]

I have to say ... I'm with Shane on this one.

I second that.