Good Morning + Happy 9-11 to all of U

[Paula]

Wow...

Jonn there are many, many people in all levels of the government and military, as well as intelligent, competent professionals who do not believe the story of 911 as it is told by the government/media (all one thing really, as the media is really a propaganda machine for the government). I find it interesting that you ask me to prove that I ever worked as a journalist, simply because I do not subscribe to the belief that all is not as it seems in this matter. The truth is that just as Nazi Germany used propaganda through media, so does the US, and really every other country in the world. The country has been experimenting with propaganda and subliminal messages in media for years. Take for example the radio broadcast of War of the Worlds. Funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, it was a psychological warfare experiment conducted by The Princeton Radio Project. In case you were not aware, that radio broadcast was actually an experiment on how the government would be able to use the media of the day to control the masses. Using demographic data on the broadcast’s audience gleaned from a 10-page interview questionnaire given to 135 people, they created a book, “Invasion From Mars: A Study in the Psychology of Panic.” Now, this is the same government that used SDA's for Operation Whitecoat, (several articles on this online)in which SDA's who did not want to go into war were used as guinea pigs for government tests on biological and germ warfare. As Lutz said, American Bankers (aka Federal Reserve) funded both sides of WWII (this is verifiable info), there is reason to believe that the sinking of the Lusitania was actually a government job in order to get Americans to stomach the idea of going into WWI (something Americans were adamantly against until the sinking, at which point public opinion was immediately swayed), and the list goes on and on.

Here is a quote by former Secretary of State (and still extremely influential "advisor" to presidents) Henry Kissinger: “"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. As transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. )”

Whether real, or Promulgated....

[Gordon1]

Paula & Lutz,

Yes these things are true. We are all guinea pigs.

True Christians have no authority to believe the media or to support it's message without first verifying the facts. Otherwise they are loving and making a lie.

We fail to believe the Bible that Satan has been given control of the world, that the love of money is the root of all evil. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

Imagine Ellen White or Mary sending her boys to Project Whitecoat? I think not.

There is great danger in not understanding the 9/11 conspiracy. When the next 9/11 hits the public will allow martial law and suspension of individual freedoms in exchange for greater security. It's a return of the Inquisition and a fulfillment of EGWs Great Controversy.

Kissinger is almost quoting her very words.

[Paula]

Gordon,

I agree 100%... and I am actually stunned by how deceived many American SDA's are in regards to the government. Considering all that the Great Controversy teaches, along with all that our Revelation Prophecies teach about America being the Beast... wow.... People really seem to have their blinders on!!!! SDA's from other countries are not as oblivious to what is going on... but American SDA's, for the most part seem to want to deny the words of prophecy found in the Bible and in Ellen Whites writings.

Here is a quote from David Rockefeller that might help to open some eyes:

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries"--

David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting

in June of 1991

Or how about this quote, from David Rockefellers own Memoirs:

“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States (the oft derided "conspiracy theorists"), characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

If this does not point to fulfillment of prophecy as understood by SDA's, I don't know what does.... And if after all of this, one can still continue to refuse to look at the evidence that is out there that shows that 911, like so many other issues of today are actually government manufactured in order to keep the "sheeple" in line.... well, I don't know what will... truly like sheep going to the slaughter....

[Gordon1]

Paula, these are clear testimonies from the real world leaders.

Have you read the booklets by SDA Bill Hughes:

The Secret Terrorists http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/preamble.html

or The Enemy Unmasked?

[Paula]

I have not...but will read it!! There is a great documentary made by the BBC called "The Century of Self" it really shows how psychology is used by the government and the media to shape public opinion.... Also a great documentary you will probably enjoy, if you've not seen it already is "The Money Masters" about the Federal Reserve and it's influence on US policy.... don't want to sound like an X-Files fan (actually never even watched the show), but to use it's famous quote... "the truth is out there"... the question is do we want to see it... or do we prefer to be deceived?

The Century of Self:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUYFr-uDQgg

The Money Masters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv-ZCj1_HHI

[Dr. Shane]

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

[Paula]

again Shane, the media will do all in it's power to convince people that it has "Debunked" all the claims being made by respected architects, engineers and physicists... many with degrees from harvard and yale... and the public just drinks it up... why is it that if it's printed in Popular Mechanics, or featured on mythbusters it's automatically true... but the research done by respected scientists of the field is the lie? All I am asking is that people not have a double standard where everything the media spews is truth, and everything else is a lie. If you go to http://patriotsquestion911.com/ you will find many people who have knowledge of how these things work who question the "truth" published in the media. Even General Wesley Clark questions the 911 version that we have been told...

[John317]

Wow...

Jonn there are many, many people in all levels of the government and military, as well as intelligent, competent professionals who do not believe the story of 911 as it is told by the government/media (all one thing really, as the media is really a propaganda machine for the government).

I've heard all the theories about the government causing 9/11, but what I want to know is what is the evidence that any of those theories are true. "Intelligent, competant professionals" have been known to believe all kinds of ridiculous theories, so I can't just rely on someone because they are intelligent and competant. I have to look carefully at the evidence and decide for myself.

If the government uses the media as its propaganda machine, so do all kinds of private groups and "wackos."

Originally Posted By: Paula

I find it interesting that you ask me to prove that I ever worked as a journalist, simply because I do not subscribe to the belief that all is not as it seems in this matter.

If you are what you say you are, a journalist with several years of experience, you will not mind my asking for evidence to support your claim. (I'm not suggesting you're lying-- I am only asking for evidence of the truth of what you say.) I don't take anyone's word for anything when it comes to this topic. Isn't that what you are suggesting that we do-- look carefully at the evidence and accept nothing at face value? If I shouldn't trust the government, I should have the same mistrust of others whom I don't know, until I've established reasons for trusting them.

So far on this thread, you haven't offered anything that anyone couldn't find without being a journalist. You said that your experience as a journalist gives you insight into ways that "people don't realize how easy it is to be manipulated by the media." I'm asking for specific ways you have seen this as a journalist.

Also, based on your experience as a journalist, could you summarize in your own words your theory or belief of what happened on 9/11?

[John317]

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

Good post, Shane. I think everyone should be familiar with what this says.

[Woody]

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

Woody likes

[John317]

Do you actually believe the U.S. government did this and that the President was responsible for 9/11?

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Yes I do. I know this government cares nothing for me or any of you. They didn't care for those that died on 9/11, nor do they care about the millions of innocent people they kill over seas.

This whole "war on terror" is nothing but a scheme to get the rich even richer. It is a war that never ends, because there is always terrorism around the world and if it did stop, they could just create more.

The people who run this country have no national pride and do not care. This is evident when American bankers funded both sides of World War II.

As I said before, this country is not ran by a president. He is just the front man there to take the blame. It is ran by bankers and corporations.

But even if everything you've said here were true, it is not valid evidence that the U.S. government and specifically the President caused 9/11.

[Dr. Shane]

If you go to conspiracies'R'us.com you will find many people who have knowledge of how these things work...

I am a degreed commercial builder, I have knowledge of how these things work. I am surrounded with architects and engineers. This is all we talked about for months. I don't fall for the conspiracies because I know better.

[Twilight]

I have seen some of the information from those that think not all the truth has come forward and they do ask some interesting questions.

What happened to the plane that hit the pentagon?

What happened to the plane that crashed into the ground?

If anyone has a valid explanation of how those planes disappeared, I would love to hear it. :-)

[Dr. Shane]

We did find a lot of debris from those planes - including the black boxes. Those planes were traveling at an accelerated speed when they crashed. When most plane crashes take place, the pilot reduces the jet's speed as much as possible hoping to minimize damage. The pilots flying the jets on 9/11 had not interest in minimizing damage.

[Gordon1]

Hi John,

The real question should be: Where is the hard evidence to support the Govt. story?

As Christians we have no authority to repeat media hype. I'm sure you agree in principle.

• Why did WTC Building 7 fall at 5:20 PM - never hit by an airplane - 47 stories reduced to rubble & powder in less than ten seconds?

• And how did the firefighters know to clear the Building 7 area in advance? Who issued these orders?

• Why was orange, molten running steel found in the sub-basements of the Twin Towers in October? Many weeks after.

• Why are nano-thermite particles (both fresh and spent) found in dust samples all over the Manhattan site? Nano thermite is an advanced and potent explosive recently developed at Los Alamos & Lawrence Livermore National Labs. Not accessible to Afghanis or Iraquis in caves.

• Why were the steel girders found cut into transportable lengths? (Hint: well-placed cutter charges)

• Why were they removed from the crime scene and shipped to foundries overseas?

For better answers John, seek out Richard Gage at one of his public lectures. Or David Ray Griffin. Both hail from California. Gage is a San Francisco architect who heads Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth - over 1200 professionals who dispute the official story. They know buildings don't disintegrate into powder unless blown apart. Or see his DVD presentation online:

BluePrint for Truth

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth: http://www.ae911truth.org/

(If Paula worked as a journalist, then her exposure may not give her 9/11 insight, but she'll know that mainstream journalism is a corrupt & controlled field)

One needn't be a pathologist to know the body on the slab is stone cold dead.

There need to be more SDA whistleblowers who desire to glorify God by speaking truth where they see it, regardless of their status in society. Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?

Read the Firefighter's appeal for evidence:

http://firefightersfor911truth.org/

[John317]

What happened to the plane that hit the pentagon?

There were quite a few people who saw the plane fly close to the ground near the freeway and then hit the pentagon. Barbera Olson was on that plane and died in the crash.

The co-pilot of the plane that crashed in Penn. was an SDA, wasn't he?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

• Why are nano-thermite particles (both fresh and spent) found in dust samples all over the Manhattan site? Nano thermite is an advanced and potent explosive recently developed at Los Alamos & Lawrence Livermore National Labs. Not accessible to Afghanis or Iraquis in caves.

The planes did not take off from Afghan or Iraq. The extremists who commandeered the planes had been in America, not recently fallen off the potato wagons in Afghan or Iraq.

Moreover, here's a good debunking of the "nano-thermite" red herring:

nano-thermite red herring of 9/11

[Paula]

Shane, as a building professional with experience in steel frames you probably know about this:

Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse

Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.

The One Meridian Plaza Fire

One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. 1 2 3 It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".

The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. 4 Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.

The First Interstate Bank fire

The First Interstate Bank Fire

The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. 5

A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:

In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans. 6

The 1 New York Plaza Fire

Close-up of the First Interstate Bank fire

Photo: New York Board of Underwriters

1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours. 7

Caracas Tower Fire

The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.

Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. 8

The Windsor Building Fire

The Windsor Building fire

A more recent case of a severe high-rise fire is the one that destroyed the Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. The Windsor fire was more severe than any of the fires described above, and the incident has been widely publicized, with comparisons to the fires in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11/01. However, the Windsor Building, unlike all the buildings mentioned above, was framed in steel-reinforced concrete rather than steel. Hence it is described on a separate page, which notes differences between the response of these different types of structures to fires.

9

The Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel Fire

The Hotel Mandarin Oriental blazes

The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.

[Paula]

And here is a picture of the burning Beijink Mandarin Oriental building mentioned above:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/mandarin/beijing_torch.jpg

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So, Paula, did all of these fires you listed have a commonality involved, i.e., the buildings were hit by large planes fully loaded with fuel???

btw, in case anyone wants to know, here is where Paula is copying her information (and not mentioning the fact that she's copying it - a journalist always cites sources, you know):

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

[Paula]

So, Paula, did all of these fires you listed have a commonality involved, i.e., the buildings were hit by large planes fully loaded with fuel???

btw, in case anyone wants to know, here is where Paula is copying her information (and not mentioning the fact that she's copying it - a journalist always cites sources, you know):

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

wow Pam... I haven't shared my sources?!?!?!? Thats funny considering I posted the websites a few comments back... maybe if you actually read all my posts and clicked on the links I provided you'd know that.... or maybe you just like falsely accusing people. Furthermore, the picture I gave the link to actually redirects to the page I got the info from, which for your infomration is the Firefighters for 911 truth page.

You know Rudy you can disagree with people without having to be so rude and nasty.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You did not cite the source in post #393708.

I'm not being mean and nasty. Show me where I said something rude. btw, you need to check your spelling.

[Dr. Shane]

Shane, as a building professional with experience in steel frames you probably know about this:

Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse

[Gordon1]

Paula,

No one can explain or justify the fall of WTC Building 7 at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11th.

It was kept out of the media, out of public discussion, and out of the Official 9/11 Commission Report.

It's proof of media conspiracy and cover-up. 47 stories disintegrate in 7 seconds. In Manhattan. No press??

Raising controversial topics invites personal attacks, sarcasm, ridicule, and it's one cost of independant thinking. But it shows there are no valid rebuttals. As you've clearly said, SDAs should be at the forefront of public awareness with all the light we've been given & I fully agree. But while 9/11 is a type of litmus test to gauge our compliance with NWO agenda, even this can be an absorbing distraction away from Bible study. It's one of many such issues, but nothing deserves our attention more than the Word. Not all doubters will be convinced and thankfully this is not our burden.

WTC Building 7 Research:

http://www.wtc7.net/

[Dr. Shane]

No one can explain or justify the fall of WTC Building 7 at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11th.