United Nations to appoint Earth contact for aliens

[Bravus]

Curiosity and interest. When I'm in heaven I fully intend exploring as much of the universe as I have time for - oh wait, I have eternity!

If they have eternity, at least some of them are extremely likely to be interested in this weird anomalous world: the only one in an immense universe to fall.

[John317]

So if you see a beautiful being who claims to be from another planet, who claims he came here just out of curiosity to see what this sinful world is like, you would believe it?

Would you ask this sinless being if it came with God's permission and why God would do that?

[Bravus]

I'd ask it all sorts of questions! Probably more about where it came from and so on, first.

And sure, the minute it started saying *anything* about God, religion, the Bible, Sabbath, Sunday or any other related topic, I'd be incredibly amazed, and I'd not take it's word for anything on any of those topics...

My point was simply that the *automatic* assumption that an extra-terrestrial visitor cannot be that and must be a demon is drawing a long and speculative bow, stringing together a whole bunch of suppositions far beyond anything from the Pen of Inspiration.

By all means 'test the spirits'. Just don't assume you already know who's going to pass.

[Dr. Shane]

In order for unbelieving scientists to believe extra-terrestrial life could travel here, they must believe technology exists which they cannot understand. That kind of runs against the grains of natural science.

This newest planet discovered doesn't rotate on its axis. That sounds like it would be very hot on one side of the planet and very cold on the other side. Of course, the atmosphere would have a lot to do with that. If a planet within 20 light years had advanced intelligent life on it, how would they communicate with their home base? If their communication traveled at light speed it would take 20 years for them to phone home and 20 years for home to answer.

Evolution itself is speculative. Evolution suggests that as life evolves it becomes more advanced. That is a theory - not an observation. The rival theory says that as life evolves, it breaks down. Diseases arise and species go extinct. The whole idea that another planet with life on it could be more advanced than ours is based on a major assumption.

[Overaged]

I'd ask it all sorts of questions! Probably more about where it came from and so on, first.

And sure, the minute it started saying *anything* about God, religion, the Bible, Sabbath, Sunday or any other related topic, I'd be incredibly amazed, and I'd not take it's word for anything on any of those topics...

My point was simply that the *automatic* assumption that an extra-terrestrial visitor cannot be that and must be a demon is drawing a long and speculative bow, stringing together a whole bunch of suppositions far beyond anything from the Pen of Inspiration.

By all means 'test the spirits'. Just don't assume you already know who's going to pass.

Men are not to be left in darkness concerning this important matter; the warning against this sin is to be given to the world before the visitation of God's judgments, that all may know why they are to be inflicted, and have opportunity to escape them. Prophecy declares that the first angel would make his announcement to “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.” The warning of the third angel, which forms a part of the same threefold message, is to be no less widespread. It is represented in the prophecy as proclaimed with a loud voice, by an angel flying in the midst of heaven; and it will command the attention of the world. {GC88 449.2}

[Tom Wetmore]

I have suggested before that if an angel appeared to people today as they did in ancient times they would be met with the same disbelief as exhibited here. The problem is that the certainty of religious ideas and leaders about 2000 years ago disbelieved and rejected an alien visitor, one they in fact were anticipating, because he was exactly as they expected and had theorized he should be.

[Overaged]

I have suggested before that if an angel appeared to people today as they did in ancient times they would be met with the same disbelief as exhibited here. The problem is that the certainty of religious ideas and leaders about 2000 years ago disbelieved and rejected an alien visitor, one they in fact were anticipating, because he was exactly as they expected and had theorized he should be.

Thats actually a very good point re the disbelief that would be likely to occur. If you are/were referring to Jesus as an "alien visitor" I am not so sure that would be correct, or that He would qualify... LOL, I am sure there will now be a flurry of posting now on that point and I will look forward to seeing the ideas; but the point that many will not believe when they see here; is a good one.

[John317]

Could you say more about the reasons unfallen extra-terrestrials would choose to come to the earth? You've said curiosity and interest could be two reasons they would visit. But what curiosity and interest might they have that would cause them to travel so far to a planet where the inhabitants are in rebellion against God?

Assuming that the Bible and the SOP are correct-- that God made the entire universe and that the earth is the only sinful planet-- what other reasons beside curiosity and interest are there, if any?

[Bravus]

Well, I believe aliens would be truly alien: completely unlike us. After all, God has exhibited an astonishing taste for variety in his creations on this world, so it's unlikely he'd repeat our design on other worlds. Given that, trying to explain their motivations in human terms is probably a forlorn quest. Perhaps they'd be motivated to come to earth by DHt&hXzYu&hie.

[John317]

I completely agree that these "aliens" are not likely to be anything like humans. But we do know that they would be loving and sinless-- that is, they are subject to the laws of God and they are only motivated by unselfish love, something humans would not understand.

But you can be sure this is not the belief of the UN. They would expect that these "aliens" could be hostile and have evil, selfish motives. From the UN's viewpoint, we have no idea what to expect from such aliens. Anything is possible.

But if the Bible and SOP are correct, the UN's expectations would be totally wrong, at least insfar as genuine extra-terrestrials are concerned.

Your thoughts?

[teresaq]

in sivarts defense, john, the way you phrased your statement, quoted below, it does look as if you were speaking of ets in general and gave me pause also...

i think sivartm makes a lot of innocent comments and questions that are perceived as other than meant...lets remember that he is a searching, inquiring teen. come to think of it Jesus did say if we do not become as a little child...

Originally Posted By: John317

I think it should be expected by SDAs who know the end-time prophecies. Someday the time will come when contact is made with extraterrestrials claiming to hold all the solutions to earth's problems, and the world will follow.

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Does that come from prophecy or from a novel?

I think it's interesting that you ask about whether this comes from a novel or not. First of all, are you serious-- that you don't know what Ellen White says will happen just before Christ returns?

There are many novels about the end-times, and they are written mostly by non-SDA, but none are very good, and the ones by SDAs are terrible. Have you read any?

Do you think there is any potential for a good novel (and of course, a film) from the perspective of SDAs understanding of prophecy?

What are some of your favorite novels, ones you consider great?

[Overaged]

You make a good point.

[Tallmark]

I'm not saying you're wrong John316, but Satan being beautiful would be hard for me to believe since most of his followers are bone-ugly. Actually they should have appointed Whoopie Goldberg and Dennis Rodman. They look the most like ETs anyway!

[John317]

That's an interesting thought, especially when we consider that Satan has convinced most people to think of a very ugly creature when they imagine what he must look like. In their mind's eye almost no one thinks of a beautiful being with a sweet, wonderful voice. Looks like a perfect set-up to me.

I can hear it now: a few people claiming that this beautiful, highly intelligent creature is Satan in disguise and that the world needs to be aware of it. And the overwhelming response? "Are you outta your everlovin' minds? You gotta be crazy, some kind of a nut. Why, I was there and I saw him with my own eyes. He's as real as you and I are. Go see for yourself. You talk like some kinda fool with your Ellen White this and Ellen White that. They proved her a false prophet a long time ago. Wake up!"

Here's the thing: if we are alive at that time, and we are used to putting all our trust in our senses instead of in God's word, including His revelations through Ellen White, we will be deceived. Why? Because Satan will be able to make it appear that the dead are being raised and the sick healed and that God's blessings are unquestionably attending him. He will offer irrefutable proofs to anyone who requires scientific evidence. And his message will appear all good--- except to those who have studied the prophecies and are being guided by the Holy Spirit. The only way anyone at that time will be able to distinguish between truth and error is by the Holy Spirit. It won't depend on intelligence or human skill, but on humility and trust in God's guidance and knowledge of His word.

Anyone's thoughts?

[John317]

in sivarts defense, john, the way you phrased your statement, quoted below, it does look as if you were speaking of ets in general and gave me pause also...

Yeah I can see what you mean. I phrased it in a way that could be taken to mean the "ets" as they are popularly understood in the media. So if SivartM needs or wants an apology, he's got one.

[Overaged]

I am very impressed with your christian example here John 3:17 Good to see

[Bravus]

I have the easier argument to make: John317's claim seems to be that there is no conceivable way that any unfallen being would ever come to earth.

Given that we are incapable of understanding the reasoning of such beings, seems like he's got a tough case to make.

[John317]

There are millions upon millions of unfallen beings on this earth right this very moment. But there are also many millions of fallen "aliens" on earth, and you and I have both near us quite often. We are constantly being watched, and our thoughts and motives may be (and many people's actually have been) affected by them. But who is in ultimate control of these beings? Of course God is-- i.e, all three persons of the Godhead. They do nothing without His permssive will, and the unfallen angels do His positive commands.

So I think we can be confident that if any beings from outside the earth come here, God will not only know about it but God will have sent them, just as He has sent all the angels here, as well as the demons. At least that is the clear teaching of the Bible.

All of my reasoning on this topic are based on the assumption that the Bible and Ellen White are telling the truth. So of course if they are not accurate, anything can happen, and "all bets are off." But I have no doubt that they are accurate and can be trusted. I think it's important to say this because naturally most people discussing ET's don't believe the Bible and Ellen White's writings when it comes to this topic.

You say that since we can't know how these unfallen beings think, we can't be sure whether they would come here. But how much do we need to know about their thinking in order to know whether they would visit the earth?

It seems to me that it's more important to know how God thinks than it is to know precisely how those creatures think. Why is this? Because the unfallen ET's are intelligent creatures designed by a loving, wise God. They would therefore be perfect in the sense of having no moral or intellectual defects. We could expect them, then, to be rational and unselfish and not out to hurt or destroy anyone. They would also be under submission to the government of God. In other words, whatever they do or even think, it is in conformity to God's law of love for all of the creatures God has made. The whole universe of intelligent creatures obey the principle of the great moral law of God. We can be confident that these beings will be loyal to God and to God's laws.

It is true that God also made everything on earth, but the difference is that everything on earth is in a fallen state-- which means that nothing is exacly like God originally intended and designed it. Consequently, things of this earth are much less predictable in terms of rationality and morality. It means that if anything, we can often predict that they are more or less destructive, amoral, and selfish. In our fallen, earthly environment, these appear to be positive characteristics that help in the survival of creatures; but not so with the genuine ET's, all of which come from God and therefore reflect the character is God. They would be perfect, of course, because everything God makes is perfect.

What are your thoughts?

[Overaged]

I have the easier argument to make: John317's claim seems to be that there is no conceivable way that any unfallen being would ever come to earth.

Given that we are incapable of understanding the reasoning of such beings, seems like he's got a tough case to make.

But isn't your case even tougher to make. Based on what you just said; how can you surmise their reasoning enough to even presume that they would come here? By "aliens" you seem to be referring to what? Non-angels, as in reference to what John 317 is talking about? You are making the same assumptions as the UN, and you cannot say with any more certainty that "aliens" even exist, or would want to come here, or why they would come.

[Dr. Shane]

Even from a secular point of view, we have more reason to believe the Bible is true and that Jesus Christ will return than we have to believe that life on another planet will come here and visit us. So wouldn't it make more sense for the UN to tell people to prepare for Jesus' return than for a visitation from aliens?

[Gordon1]

That's an interesting thought, especially when we consider that Satan has convinced most people to think of a very ugly creature when they imagine what he must look like. In their mind's eye almost no one thinks of a beautiful being with a sweet, wonderful voice. Looks like a perfect set-up to me.

I can hear it now: a few people claiming that this beautiful, highly intelligent creature is Satan in disguise and that the world needs to be aware of it. And the overwhelming response? "Are you outta your everlovin' minds? You gotta be crazy, some kind of a nut. Why, I was there and I saw him with my own eyes. He's as real as you and I are. Go see for yourself. You talk like some kinda fool with your Ellen White this and Ellen White that. They proved her a false prophet a long time ago. Wake up!"

Here's the thing: if we are alive at that time, and we are used to putting all our trust in our senses instead of in God's word, including His revelations through Ellen White, we will be deceived. Why? Because Satan will be able to make it appear that the dead are being raised and the sick healed and that God's blessings are unquestionably attending him. He will offer irrefutable proofs to anyone who requires scientific evidence. And his message will appear all good--- except to those who have studied the prophecies and are being guided by the Holy Spirit. The only way anyone at that time will be able to distinguish between truth and error is by the Holy Spirit. It won't depend on intelligence or human skill, but on humility and trust in God's guidance and knowledge of His word.

Anyone's thoughts?

Quite agreed John. We cannot depend upon our senses to distinguish truth from error. Everything must be weighed against Scripture, the Word of God. This would have spared Adam & Eve, our first parents, whose minds were not weakened by many dozen generations of sin.

Our present condition is far more fragile, more corruptible. We fill our bodies and minds with junk, advertising (porngraphy) and worldly wisdom. Almost every Adventist I know owns one or more televisions. TV & Hollywood pre-program us for deception because they are filled with actors - people who are pretending to be someone else - as well as false stories - fiction, drama, romance and manufactured news.

So as a society, but more especially as a people, we are being trained to love lies and devote many hours and dollars to this pursuit. "I loved that show last night". But Revelation warns us in advance:

"For without are dogs, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

These shall be "without" the holy city. (Revelation 22:15)

_________________________________________

The scorn, derision and contempt poured upon the truth are only to be expected. The same happened to Christ and He will receive it again in the person of His followers.

This important fact is seldom shared with new believers - True christianity is not popular. Christ Himself forewarned:

"These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." John 16:1,2.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

I have the easier argument to make: John317's claim seems to be that there is no conceivable way that any unfallen being would ever come to earth.

Given that we are incapable of understanding the reasoning of such beings, seems like he's got a tough case to make.

But isn't your case even tougher to make. Based on what you just said; how can you surmise their reasoning enough to even presume that they would come here? By "aliens" you seem to be referring to what? Non-angels, as in reference to what John 317 is talking about? You are making the same assumptions as the UN, and you cannot say with any more certainty that "aliens" even exist, or would want to come here, or why they would come.

I agree O/A. Bravus' case being based on secular thinking, and along the same lines as the UN, has very little merit, if any, with a true Bible believer.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: John317

That's an interesting thought, especially when we consider that Satan has convinced most people to think of a very ugly creature when they imagine what he must look like. In their mind's eye almost no one thinks of a beautiful being with a sweet, wonderful voice. Looks like a perfect set-up to me.

I can hear it now: a few people claiming that this beautiful, highly intelligent creature is Satan in disguise and that the world needs to be aware of it. And the overwhelming response? "Are you outta your everlovin' minds? You gotta be crazy, some kind of a nut. Why, I was there and I saw him with my own eyes. He's as real as you and I are. Go see for yourself. You talk like some kinda fool with your Ellen White this and Ellen White that. They proved her a false prophet a long time ago. Wake up!"

Here's the thing: if we are alive at that time, and we are used to putting all our trust in our senses instead of in God's word, including His revelations through Ellen White, we will be deceived. Why? Because Satan will be able to make it appear that the dead are being raised and the sick healed and that God's blessings are unquestionably attending him. He will offer irrefutable proofs to anyone who requires scientific evidence. And his message will appear all good--- except to those who have studied the prophecies and are being guided by the Holy Spirit. The only way anyone at that time will be able to distinguish between truth and error is by the Holy Spirit. It won't depend on intelligence or human skill, but on humility and trust in God's guidance and knowledge of His word.

Anyone's thoughts?

Quite agreed John. We cannot depend upon our senses to distinguish truth from error. Everything must be weighed against Scripture, the Word of God. This would have spared Adam & Eve, our first parents, whose minds were not weakened by many dozen generations of sin.

Our present condition is far more fragile, more corruptible. We fill our bodies and minds with junk, advertising (porngraphy) and worldly wisdom. Almost every Adventist I know owns one or more televisions. TV & Hollywood pre-program us for deception because they are filled with actors - people who are pretending to be someone else - as well as false stories - fiction, drama, romance and manufactured news.

So as a society, but more especially as a people, we are being trained to love lies and devote many hours and dollars to this pursuit. "I loved that show last night". But Revelation warns us in advance:

"For without are dogs, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

These shall be "without" the holy city. (Revelation 22:15)

_________________________________________

The scorn, derision and contempt poured upon the truth are only to be expected. The same happened to Christ and He will receive it again in the person of His followers.

This important fact is seldom shared with new believers - True christianity is not popular. Christ Himself forewarned:

"These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." John 16:1,2.

AMEN!!!! Especially the part about being trained and programmed to believe and love lies. (i.e. Hollywood)

[nuff sed]

My person opinion based on the "Gospel according to 'Nuff Sed" is that other inhabited planets have gone through their test and that God will not allow them to come to this sinful planet...nor will he allow 'sinful' mankind to bring sin to any other inhabited planet. IMO the stage is being set and mankind is being programmed to accept the idea that UFOs exist(through movies,TV, media, etc.) and that 'Aliens' who are wiser and more advanced will eventually make contact with us. Thes beings will , of course, be the evil angels in disguise. I believe that the final deception will include Satan and his host coming to earth in a gigantic space ship (ala Movie-Independence Day) with bright and brilliant beings performing so-called 'miracles'. Satan , himself, will broadcast from this "spaceship" , audio,visual, 3-D (and more) and will finally exit to try to conclude his "grand deception". "nuff sed"

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

It's speculation that people from unfallen worlds would never come here, though, even if we take all the rest as gospel.

I am very interested in knowing some of the possible reasons that you believe sinless beings from unfallen worlds would come to earth.

Me too. It would be like scheduling your next camping vacation for the middle of July........in Death Valley. Why in the world would any unfallen being want to come here? ( except to minister to the saints--"Don't forget to entertain strangers"...)