United Nations to appoint Earth contact for aliens

[phkrause]

My person opinion based on the "Gospel according to 'Nuff Sed" is that other inhabited planets have gone through their test and that God will not allow them to come to this sinful planet...nor will he allow 'sinful' mankind to bring sin to any other inhabited planet. IMO the stage is being set and mankind is being programmed to accept the idea that UFOs exist(through movies,TV, media, etc.) and that 'Aliens' who are wiser and more advanced will eventually make contact with us. Thes beings will , of course, be the evil angels in disguise. I believe that the final deception will include Satan and his host coming to earth in a gigantic space ship (ala Movie-Independence Day) with bright and brilliant beings performing so-called 'miracles'. Satan , himself, will broadcast from this "spaceship" , audio,visual, 3-D (and more) and will finally exit to try to conclude his "grand deception". "nuff sed"

You make very good points 'nuff sed'. I've always been under the impression that when EGW talked about alien forms she was talking about angels, good or evil and not actual humans from other planets.

[Aliensanctuary]

We could assume that some aliens, at least, do not age, and can, in fact, live forever, with proper maintenance. We, too, could live forever, once the ageing process is cancelled. We may be too primitive to be able to travel to the stars and back, but other alien civilizations may not suffer from our ignorance. If their journey takes many, many years or centuries, no matter, as long as their life processes can be sustained. There is probably a much quicker way to travel from star to star, though, that is not limited by the speed of light.

Forces may very well exist that humans cannot comprehend. We cannot access these forces, while Christ, and a few others, were permitted. Because, in our ignorance, we are unable to explain these events scientifically, we might call them "miracles", that is, effects that have no reasonable causes, just magic words.

I beleive the Fourth Kingdom of the Last Days, post Resurrection, will involve aliens, extraterrestrial firepower, and the destruction of the world's great cities. The carnage will be stopped only by a power much greater, the power of YHVH.

Yeah, what ET in their right minds would want to take a vacation on this garbage-dump of a planet, and maybe get shot at or captured or acquire some serious diseases? If any ET's do come in our time, it would be a waste of time, and far beneath their dignity, for them to meet with the UN. If they do arrive before the Resurrection, it will probably be to assist Israel in returning from yet another exile, and in building the Temple, a massive, blast-resistant structure described by Ezekiel.

Forget the UN. Israel will rule the world someday, before the Resurrection, as predicted, and usher in an era of peace. There, the lion will play with the lamb, and men will still be young at a hundred. This won't be the Israel that we know today, which will be destroyed yet again, perhaps soon, and driven into exile. From these exiles, a mere remnant will arise who know the LORD, and faithfully follow his commands. The LORD will then provide what they need to peaceably conquer the world.

If we spent more time studying OT prophecies, we might understand them better.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: John317

I think it's interesting that you ask about whether this comes from a novel or not. First of all, are you serious-- that you don't know what Ellen White says will happen just before Christ returns?

I don't remember Ellen mentioning extraterrestrials.

Quote:

There are many novels about the end-times, and they are written mostly by non-SDA, but none are very good, and the ones by SDAs are terrible. Have you read any?

The one I was thinking of when you made your comment was "The Orion Conspiracy" by Ken Wade. I thought it was pretty good.

Quote:

Do you think there is any potential for a good novel (and of course, a film) from the perspective of SDAs understanding of prophecy?

It depends. Most people wouldn't be crazy about a movie whose main point is that Sunday will be the mark of the beast, since that's not really relevant to their lives.

Quote:

What are some of your favorite novels, ones you consider great?

The Chronicles of Narnia series. And, since I'm reading it right now, "Sophie's World" by Jostein Gaarder.

You don't have to go looking that far. The Left Behind series is as ficticious as they come. Maybe that series is not sci fic, but it is close.

[doug yowell]

My person opinion based on the "Gospel according to 'Nuff Sed" is that other inhabited planets have gone through their test and that God will not allow them to come to this sinful planet...nor will he allow 'sinful' mankind to bring sin to any other inhabited planet. IMO the stage is being set and mankind is being programmed to accept the idea that UFOs exist(through movies,TV, media, etc.) and that 'Aliens' who are wiser and more advanced will eventually make contact with us. Thes beings will , of course, be the evil angels in disguise. I believe that the final deception will include Satan and his host coming to earth in a gigantic space ship (ala Movie-Independence Day) with bright and brilliant beings performing so-called 'miracles'. Satan , himself, will broadcast from this "spaceship" , audio,visual, 3-D (and more) and will finally exit to try to conclude his "grand deception". "nuff sed"

What about Invaders From Mars? The aliens caused humans to fall thru a hole in the sand where they were implanted with a device in the back of their head/neck and then released back into society where they were unaware that they had been programmed to be different people. Now they worked to bring others to the alien space lab where they could be reprogrammed.

[Kountzer]

Once when I was still a boy, I guess I was about 11 or 12 years old then, we were at my Uncle's house. This had to have been in the mid to late '60s. Anyway, my Uncle was playiing this LP album of George Vandeman talks, lectures, etc. I shall never forget that in one of these discussions Elder Vandeman talked about how scientists had intercepted radio communication from none other than Satan himself, and he, SAtan, talked about how he was going to come to earth and pickup all his people in a UFO type spacecraft.

Mind you , I was young at the time, and I didn't get or understand the full gist of what was being said. I understood enough to know and remember that discussion by Elder Vandeman. I have often thought about doing some research of Vandeman's archives to see if I could find that message and listen to it again.

Another point is there's a book that was written by a christian author, none adventist, but christian just the same. The main thesis of this book is that all UFO activity is demonic in nature and origin.

[Dr. Shane]

Unidentified

Quote:

In this new film, directed by Rich Christiano, the question of what UFOs really are is answered. “We tried to present the various angles that people normally use to explain UFOs,” Christiano says, “and then added some things that you aren’t likely to see on the History or Discovery channels.” Are UFOs a hoax? Are they real? Are aliens a threat? "Unidentified" addresses all these questions.

[Guest]

We could assume that some aliens, at least, do not age, and can, in fact, live forever, with proper maintenance. We, too, could live forever, once the ageing process is cancelled. We may be too primitive to be able to travel to the stars and back, but other alien civilizations may not suffer from our ignorance. If their journey takes many, many years or centuries, no matter, as long as their life processes can be sustained. There is probably a much quicker way to travel from star to star, though, that is not limited by the speed of light.

Forces may very well exist that humans cannot comprehend. We cannot access these forces, while Christ, and a few others, were permitted. Because, in our ignorance, we are unable to explain these events scientifically, we might call them "miracles", that is, effects that have no reasonable causes, just magic words.

Wow! Why does everything have to be explained scientifically? Is there a scientific reason why you cannot believe in real miracles? You seem to limit the power of God. The Bible says God spoke, and the universe came into existence. It offers no scientific reason He is able to do this, other than the fact that He is God.

[phkrause]

Wow! Why does everything have to be explained scientifically? Is there a scientific reason why you cannot believe in real miracles? You seem to limit the power of God. The Bible says God spoke, and the universe came into existence. It offers no scientific reason He is able to do this, other than the fact that He is God.

Good points Richard.

[Bravus]

I'm not sure whether it's that I've failed to write clearly (probably) or that people have made incorrect assumptions about what I was trying to say. Probably a little of both. I'll try to clarify.

I've been running two separate, parallel discussions in this thread, and tried as hard as I can to be clear about that and keep them separate.

The first is the motivations of the UN for making this appointment. I tried to point out *from within their own frame of reference* what they might be thinking. Doesn't mean I share their frame of reference, just that it's comprehensible to me and others here were professing incomprehension.

The second is the issue of aliens versus demons, which I have tried to argue entirely within the Bible+EGW frame of reference. So, in that discussion, I have repeatedly stipulated that God created all life in the universe and that there are other unfallen worlds with living, sentient beings on them. The only (quite minor) point of disagreement is that John317 goes (in my opinion) beyond anything in the Bible or EGW in his assumption that unfallen beings would never come to earth.

As it happens, neither of these represents a position I wholeheartedly adopt for myself, each involving some problematic foundational assumptions. But this thread is not about me or ascertaining my position.

[Guest]

Well, I'm glad we got that cleared up.

[John317]

My person opinion based on the "Gospel according to 'Nuff Sed" is that other inhabited planets have gone through their test and that God will not allow them to come to this sinful planet...nor will he allow 'sinful' mankind to bring sin to any other inhabited planet. IMO the stage is being set and mankind is being programmed to accept the idea that UFOs exist(through movies,TV, media, etc.) and that 'Aliens' who are wiser and more advanced will eventually make contact with us. Thes beings will , of course, be the evil angels in disguise. I believe that the final deception will include Satan and his host coming to earth in a gigantic space ship (ala Movie-Independence Day) with bright and brilliant beings performing so-called 'miracles'. Satan , himself, will broadcast from this "spaceship" , audio,visual, 3-D (and more) and will finally exit to try to conclude his "grand deception". "nuff sed"

We're not only reading the same book but we're on the same page!

I can't see why those sinless beings from other planets would even want to visit us. It's not like they would be able to learn anything from the experience. All they have to do is ask angels or ask God Himself. They probably know the "the real truth" far better than we do, because we only see a fraction of what's going on, and that's all subjective and influenced by a sin-sick mind and heart. We see the truth as if through a fog. They see more clearly because their thinking and motives have always been pure. This fact would seem to suggest that they wouldn't come here simply out of curiosity or interest. Curiosity about what-- how humans kill one another and die of diseases and of old age? As for interest-- it implies a lack of knowledge of our situation, and their desire to learn something. But what would they learn from a visit that they can't know from other, more reliable sources? Humans only want to learn because we think it will improve our condition, but the conditions of the genuine ET's are already perfect, so why would they want to learn of our miserable conditions? How would such learning help them?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

in sivarts defense, john, the way you phrased your statement, quoted below, it does look as if you were speaking of ets in general and gave me pause also...

Yeah I can see what you mean. I phrased it in a way that could be taken to mean the "ets" as they are popularly understood in the media. So if SivartM needs or wants an apology, he's got one.

thanks john...i sincerely appreciate that response! :)

[Overaged]

My person opinion based on the "Gospel according to 'Nuff Sed" is that other inhabited planets have gone through their test and that God will not allow them to come to this sinful planet...nor will he allow 'sinful' mankind to bring sin to any other inhabited planet. IMO the stage is being set and mankind is being programmed to accept the idea that UFOs exist(through movies,TV, media, etc.) and that 'Aliens' who are wiser and more advanced will eventually make contact with us. Thes beings will , of course, be the evil angels in disguise. I believe that the final deception will include Satan and his host coming to earth in a gigantic space ship (ala Movie-Independence Day) with bright and brilliant beings performing so-called 'miracles'. Satan , himself, will broadcast from this "spaceship" , audio,visual, 3-D (and more) and will finally exit to try to conclude his "grand deception". "nuff sed"

It will likely be 4D, and 4 part harmony for the sound - an "overwhelming deception" is how it is described; and that could include evil angels disguised as "aliens."

[Overaged]

I could see that you were trying to keep to Adventist beliefs in your replies here Bravus. I just have a lot of trouble accepting/understanding a UN that would fiddle around with such useless antics.

[Dr. Shane]

When we consider the facts they look like this:

Aliens: No one has ever seen life on another planet. It is highly speculative that it even exists (outside of EGW). If life on this planet came about by natural processes, the probability of it happening was so small that it certainly couldn't have happened in two places in the universe (unless, of course, God created life).

2nd Coming of Jesus: We know that Jesus did exist. So that in itself is more than we know about alien life. We know that His followers claimed that He rose from the dead, returned to heaven and promised to come back.

So as hard as it is for some unbelievers to actually consider the 2nd coming of Jesus as something they should prepare for, it is actually more logical for them to do that than prepare for aliens to come here from another planet.

[Kountzer]

When we consider the facts they look like this:

Aliens: No one has ever seen life on another planet. It is highly speculative that it even exists (outside of EGW). If life on this planet came about by natural processes, the probability of it happening was so small that it certainly couldn't have happened in two places in the universe (unless, of course, God created life).

2nd Coming of Jesus: We know that Jesus did exist. So that in itself is more than we know about alien life. We know that His followers claimed that He rose from the dead, returned to heaven and promised to come back.

So as hard as it is for some unbelievers to actually consider the 2nd coming of Jesus as something they should prepare for, it is actually more logical for them to do that than prepare for aliens to come here from another planet.

What you posted is very logical, but logic and reason often get tossed out when discussing religion, and religious beliefs. If someone went by strictly logic, then the majority of people would worship on the seventh day. That same majority would also believe in creationism.

[John317]

[John317]

The UN's view of this, as with all other issues, is that there is no God and that all life arose through materialistic, evolutionary processes. Naturally, that is going to lead them to look at the whole question of ET's from a totally different perspective than how SDAs see it.

[John317]

So as hard as it is for some unbelievers to actually consider the 2nd coming of Jesus as something they should prepare for, it is actually more logical for them to do that than prepare for aliens to come here from another planet.

What you say here is absolutely true, but that is one reason I believe the ET's that come will be so welcomed--- because many people will see their advent as a fulfillment of all their hopes and dreams.

One thing that will probably be different between the message of the ET's and the message of Christ is that the ET's won't talk about the necessity of obeying all of the moral law of God. In fact, we know that they will say the moral law has been changed. They almost certainly won't talk about how people need to be born of the Holy Spirit and obey all of Christ's teachings. Their message will be almost completely about love, love, love. So I think their message will be a watered down version of the gospel that will make it very popular because it will require no real change in people's lives (except, eventually, for Sunday).

[John317]

The second is the issue of aliens versus demons, which I have tried to argue entirely within the Bible+EGW frame of reference. So, in that discussion, I have repeatedly stipulated that God created all life in the universe and that there are other unfallen worlds with living, sentient beings on them. The only (quite minor) point of disagreement is that John317 goes (in my opinion) beyond anything in the Bible or EGW in his assumption that unfallen beings would never come to earth.

As it happens, neither of these represents a position I wholeheartedly adopt for myself, each involving some problematic foundational assumptions. But this thread is not about me or ascertaining my position.

I'd like to know the position you take wholeheartedly if you wouldn't mind. My reason for asking is that I'm particularly interested in the view of SDAs who think genuine ET's might come to this earth. I want to know why they think ET's would come. What possible reasons would they have, besides curiosity and interest? And what kind of interest do you think is either likely or possible? I know I'm asking you to conjecture here, but it's OK to conjecture. The main thing from my viewpoint is to explore the reasons an SDA (who believes in the Bible and SOP) might conclude the ET's may actually come here.

[Bravus]

OK, within the Bible+EGW framework, I have given the best answers I can. I could phrase it differently, but the reasons boil down to curiosity, interest and 'DHt&hXzYu&hie' (i.e. alien reasons incomprehensible to us). I can take it further: EGW suggests that we are an example to them. Sure, that could happen through God and angels telling them about us, but it would be a much more powerful witness for them if they could *see* the consequences of sin. Not for prurient interest but as a stern warning to them.

The reason I said the case is easier is that I'm not trying to prove they definitely *would* come, just that it's impossible to state dogmatically that they definitely *wouldn't*. You've offered a number of reasons why they *mightn't*, but IMO none of those are completely definitive, and to make your case they'd have to be.

Now, that's a response within that framework. I understand but do not fully accept that framework myself: while I believe EGW was a prophet and conveyed many truths, I also believe her statements are flawed in some respects in relation to the natural world (the claim that masturbation causes madness is one example that's been discussed to death here).

Given that, in talking about a claim I can wholeheartedly support, her statements about the nature of unfallen beings and her statements about the appearance of Satan in disguise are looked at but not held as certainties.

So my wholehearted position (and I suspect this won't surprise those who know me well) on the questions of (a) whether there are alien species on other worlds, ( whether they are capable of travelling here, © whether they'd choose to travel here and (d) whether apparently aliens are *certain* demons is:

We just don't have enough information to be certain.

It's a lot of fun to speculate, but we shouldn't let our speculations run away with us, and we definitely shouldn't call into question the faith of those whose speculations lead them in slightly different directions.

Humility is the only possible position in the face of the size of the universe... and how infinitely greater than the universe God is.

[Overaged]

As long as you do call it "speculation" and acknowledge all this as "just not having enough information;" then I have no problem with what you are saying here, questions yes, but I have found your posts interesting to follow.