Traffic Laws

[Stan]

If someone paid the price of all the fines in the world for people, past present and future, who violated traffic laws, would traffic laws be void and useless?

I could drive on any side of the road, because someone has paid the price?

Signal Lights? Red lights? Nope that price has been paid, don't worry about them.

School zones? Zoom Zoom Zoom, some one has already paid the penalty

[Gerr]

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If someone paid the price of all the fines in the world for people, past present and future, who violated traffic laws, would traffic laws be void and useless?

I could drive on any side of the road, because someone has paid the price?

Signal Lights? Red lights? Nope that price has been paid, don't worry about them.

School zones? Zoom Zoom Zoom, some one has already paid the penalty

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[:"blue"]This is the line of reasoning I have used with Robert, to no avail. [/]

Gerry

[Nan]

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If someone paid the price of all the fines in the world for people, past present and future, who violated traffic laws, would traffic laws be void and useless?

I could drive on any side of the road, because someone has paid the price?

Signal Lights? Red lights? Nope that price has been paid, don't worry about them.

School zones? Zoom Zoom Zoom, some one has already paid the penalty

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[:"blue"]This is the line of reasoning I have used with Robert, to no avail. [/]

Gerry

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[:"purple"] But surely anly loving person who had been converted would obey the spirit of the law anyway and not drive in a way to endanger others [/]

And as I cannot find a smilie for TIC I will have to spell it out.

[_david]

i would probably speed all the time, and when theres traffic go on the emergency lane, but i would not go into the opposite lane, id' stop at stop signs (if there is no car at all, i'd want to not wait till it turns green). The only problem with that is when everyone wants to do it, then you have major problems.

Also, in Central America (i'm sure tons of other poor countries) people rarely respect red lights, stop signs etc.. IF they choose not to stop they just start honking. Strange how its more likely that people crash here with all these laws; percentage wise.

Plus by the rules of the street the pedestrain does nto have the right of way. It's still fun to drive other there. My mom would freak out, she won't dare drive there.

[Robert]

Let me rephrase your analogy for I believe you are comparing apples to oranges:

• If someone paid the price of all the fines in the world for people, past present and future, who violated the spirit of God's laws, would His laws be void and useless?

  I could continue to be selfish, because someone has paid the price?

I see a few problems with your illustration:

1] The law has not been abolished, rather it has been legally satisfied "in Christ"! Believers are no longer "under law"....

2] While growth/change is the result of being saved from the curse of the law, we still retain a nature whose primary concern is the love of self. We are not tolly free of self for if we were we would be like Christ....Ellen White refers to selfishness as, "taint of earthly corruption".

If I go with your analogy then all of us must cease from self-seeking....Is that what you mean? If so, please consider what that means in the words of EGW:

• “Sin originated [how?] in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven.” [i.e., he wanted to be # 1] [FLB 68]

Before I continue, let me quote my friend Jack:

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Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely

on the principle of self

and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.”

Everything

, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics,

education

,

commerce, recreation,

sports

,

social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon

the principle of love of self

, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

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Back to EGW:

• In explaining love, Ellen states: “…There will be no rivalry, no self-seeking, no desire for the highest place. [Now she gives an example:] You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439]

Did you get that? Sin is self-seeking! Then she goes further: Sin is anything outside seeking for the wealth and good of others! Read it again....

Here’s more:

• “The Prince of heaven [Jesus] came to this world to live in human nature a perfect life, a life that would be an example for all human beings. He lived a life free from self-seeking, [how?] wholly given to the service of others.”

  "Christ's life on earth teaches that to obtain the higher education does not mean to gain popularity, to secure worldly advantage [$$$] - to have all the temporal wants abundantly supplied, and to be honored by the titled and wealthy of earth.....His life rebukes all self-seeking. As He went about doing good He made plain the character of God's law and the nature of His service." [CT 34]

Beside the above I agree with your analogy....A person who is forgiven will begin to manifest changes, but we must never let ourselves be deceived that we are actually fully keeping the law as Christ kept it....

Rob

[Robert]

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This is the line of reasoning I have used with Robert, to no avail.

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Please bear with me will I give Gerry, EGW one more time:

• The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God’s right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ’s propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned.

  Oh, that all may see that everything [:"red"]in obedience[/], in penitence, in praise and thanksgiving, must be placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. The fragrance of this righteousness ascends like a cloud around the mercy seat. [1SM 344]

There it is....The best of us still retain that "taint of earthly corruption." I believe she is referring to our natural love of self or maybe self-seeking. It really doesn't matter because we just aren't measuring up....

Therefore, Paul is absolute correct when he states,

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"For all have sinned and [in the present continuous tense]

fall short of the glory of God

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Now this isn't license to enjoy sin as a valid lifestyle. That is why Paul tells us, "You, my brothers, were called to be free [context: From under law]. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love."