Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[John317]

Ellen White wrote that Satan told his fallen angels, "The sect of Sabbath keepers we hate; they are continually working against us, and taking from us our subjects, to keep the hated law of God.... Present the world before them in the most attractive light.... We must keep in our ranks all the means of which we can gain control... As they apppoint meetings in different places, we are in danger... Cause disturbances and confusion if possible. Destroy love for one another... Battle every inch of ground." Early Writings 266, 267

In any war, it's imparative for people to know their enemy. If they don't, they are at an extremely dangerous disadvantage.

C. S. Lewis rightly said that there are two extremes to be avoided: one is to deny Satan's existence and activity in our world today, and the other is an obsessive preoccupation with him and his work-- the-devil-behind-every-bush mentality.

Tragically, many of us today have slipped into a third attitude toward the enemy that carries equal if not greater consequences than the first two-- the ostrich outlook.

[Musicman1228]

What Satan has been so effective doing is putting SDA's to sleep, as is described in the prophecy of the 10 Sleeping Bridesmaids in Matt. 25:1-13. This sleep takes several forms, including but not limited to complacency, ignorance, institutional and personal arrogance, and primarily Leodiceanism; believing that they have need of nothing more than they already have, and that no new truth will replace anything that they already now believe.

If Satan can keep the Kingdom of Heaven sound asleep then he will not have to worry about the Bride being ready, and the Bridegroom will have to permanently delay His return. This is what Satan hopes for and this is the foundation of his faith. Unfortunately for him there are 'a few in Sardis' that are awake and learning from what it will take to defeat the Enemy. The problem is that these same sleeping Bridesmaids (spiritually asleep) are dead set against anything that hints at any kind of change from what they already know in their hearts to be true. This is why there will be soon a shaking in the SDA church, when the 'cry at midnight' is heard and the 10 Bridesmaids wake to find things not as they expected them to be. THEN the sorting of the Kingdom will occur, and the Wise will understand that they still have much to learn, and much more to unlearn; and the Foolish will stick with what they know and will be left out of the Rehearsal Dinner, where the Wise go in with the Master and are prepared for service to the Bride/world.

[John317]

We're largely in agreement on this, I think. I don't believe that the bridegroom will ever permenantly delay His coming, though, but I do believe the church has the ability to delay it for a very signficant length of time. In fact, that has already happened. I believe Christ wanted to come, and could have come, well over a hunred years ago, but the church rejected the Holy Spirit and the message He brought. Much depends on the response of God's people to Him and to the Holy Spirit. He will never force Himself on us.

[Gail]

Re: Knowing your enemy-

I think it was Corrie Ten Boom that said that the most important gift of the Spirit is that of discernment. She said, "It's a poor soldier indeed that cannnot recognize the enemy."

[Woody]

As Christians ... we don't have enemies. But there are some churches that consider us enemies ... I have no doubt.

As I recall ... our prophet Ellen White specified some denominations we shouldn't witness to.

[John317]

The enemy is Satan and his fallen angels. Those are really our only true enemies.

I wasn't aware she says we shouldn't witness to a particular denomination. Which one is that?

I would think we're to witness to anyone who will listen and shows interest.

[Woody]

John. I think it was the Advent Church. I will see if I can find it.

It might have been the First Day Advent Church.

[BobRyan]

Ellen White wrote that Satan told his fallen angels, "The sect of Sabbath keepers we hate; they are continually working against us, and taking from us our subjects, to keep the hated law of God.... Present the world before them in the most attractive light.... We must keep in our ranks all the means of which we can gain control... As they apppoint meetings in different places, we are in danger... Cause disturbances and confusion if possible. Destroy love for one another... Battle every inch of ground." Early Writings 266, 267

In any war, it's imparative for people to know their enemy. If they don't, they are at an extremely dangerous disadvantage.

Interesting. Roger Morneau also said that he was told of specific targetting of the Seventh-day Adventist church by Satan's forces.

Paul speaks of Satan's opposition in Ephesians 6 and Peter talks about it in 1Peter 5.

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

Why is it that adventists love to quote this babylonian, C.S. Lewis? Someone pointed this out to me, and since then I've seen more and more of it. What gives??

[BobRyan]

As I recall ... our prophet Ellen White specified some denominations we shouldn't witness to.

Sounds like a memory leak to me - are you sure you have that right?

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

OK, thanks.

What you're talking about might have something to do with "the closed door," that is, that some people's probations at that time had already closed.

[Guest]

What Satan has been so effective doing is putting SDA's to sleep, as is described in the prophecy of the 10 Sleeping Bridesmaids in Matt. 25:1-13. This sleep takes several forms, including but not limited to complacency, ignorance, institutional and personal arrogance, and primarily Leodiceanism; believing that they have need of nothing more than they already have, and that no new truth will replace anything that they already now believe.

It amazes me that you believe this is God's church. But at the same time, you believe that God kick started his church off by giving them a false prophet. Who, by the way, was instrumental in helping us arrive at almost every biblical doctrine that we now hold.

If EGW is a false prophet like you say, then you can be sure that this is NOT God's church. God doesn't send his chosen people false prophets. Especially right from the get go.

As far as your premise about new truth goes, it is a false premise. I'll give you an example:

The Ten Commandments are God's truth. Can any new truth come along and change that? Can it make the ten commandments anything other than truth? The answer is NO, of course not!

But under your false premise, YES, it could.

New truth never turns old truth into a lie. It only builds on it.

[John317]

Roger Morneau also said that he was told of specific targetting of the Seventh-day Adventist church by Satan's forces.

Paul speaks of Satan's opposition in Ephesians 6 and Peter talks about it in 1Peter 5.

Yes, it seems clearly to harmonize with what the Bible teaches. It makes very good sense when we consider that the SDA church was raised up especially to give the last-day message, The Three Angels' Messages, to prepare a people and the world for Christ's return. Satan obviously is trying to fight every move that God makes in that regard because the Second Coming spells the end to Satan's plans.

Satan hates all people because he knows God loves them, but the Bible doesn't say he makes war against all people. It says Satan comes as a lion making war against the remnant of the woman's seed-- against those who keep the commandments of God, have the faith of Jesus and the testimony of Jesus Christ, which is the Spirit of prophecy.

We can take this one step further and say that Satan is especially angry with believers who he feels are the greatest threat to his kingdom. We know that the true Remanant consist of those who keep the commandments of God, have the faith of Jesus and the testimony of Jesus. This doesn't describe all SDAs. This describes a remnant within the church. Only God and the angels really know the identity of these people, but we can be sure Satan and his fallen angels are particularly after anyone who he thinks may be among that group of believers.

To me, this means that we all need to be aware that if we are serious about Christ and His kingdom, we will be the special target of Satan's deceptions and his hatred against Christ. He would like nothing better than to see such people fall.

But we have these promises from One who cannot lie:

Jude 1:24

Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy.

1 Thes. 5:23-24

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [24] He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.

Romans 8:35-39

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? [36] As it is written,

"For your sake we are being killed all the day long;

we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."

[37] No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. [38] For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, [39] nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: Woody

As I recall ... our prophet Ellen White specified some denominations we shouldn't witness to.

Sounds like a memory leak to me - are you sure you have that right?

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

Because he was a great Christian thinker. That's what I can't stand about the whole "Babylon" thing... you have to vilify everyone who isn't exactly like you.

Why do you call him a great christian thinker, because he wrote some novels based on heresy?

To say I vilify everyone who is not exactly like me is a falsehood. Also known as a lie. Why do you do that?

[Guest]

Maybe you were not referring to me specifically.

[John317]

Because he was a great Christian thinker. That's what I can't stand about the whole "Babylon" thing....

What the Bible teaches about Babylon and its fall is true and needs to be understood despite what we perceive to be errors that some people make in its application.

Yes, C.S. Lewis was a part of spiritual Babylon, but God has sincere and honest people in spiritual Babylon, and we shouldn't ignore everything those people have to say, although we have to be careful what we accept. He said a lot of things that we can learn from. I especially appreciate his book, Screw Tape Letters, which shows how Satan and his fallen angels attack believers.

[phkrause]

We're largely in agreement on this, I think. I don't believe that the bridegroom will ever permenantly delay His coming, though, but I do believe the church has the ability to delay it for a very signficant length of time. In fact, that has already happened. I believe Christ wanted to come, and could have come, well over a hunred years ago, but the church rejected the Holy Spirit and the message He brought. Much depends on the response of God's people to Him and to the Holy Spirit. He will never force Himself on us.

From what I understand, if the Jews had accepted Jesus at the time he was here, he would've come a long time ago.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Because he was a great Christian thinker. That's what I can't stand about the whole "Babylon" thing... you have to vilify everyone who isn't exactly like you.

Why do you call him a great christian thinker, because he wrote some novels based on heresy?

[John317]

From what I understand, if the Jews had accepted Jesus at the time he was here, he would've come a long time ago.

From what I've studied, I think that's right, too. Some of the Old Testament books, such as Isaiah, Ezekiel and Zechariah especially (as well as Deut. 28), show that God had a plan A which didn't work out because humans didn't cooperate. So God went to His plan B. Plan A was for Jesus to be accepted by the Jewish people and set up His kingdom here from which all the world would have been evangelized. God intented for the Jews to bless all of us Gentiles with the gospel. That's what Daniel 9: 24-27 is all about. God didn't make the Jewish leaders reject Christ. They had a real choice to accept or reject Him, and tragically they chose to reject Him. If they had accepted Him, He would have been killed but not the way it happened. And then Jesus would been resurrected and the gospel would have gone out to the world from Jerusalem.

There were some articles on this in the Review and Herald back in the 1970s. I'm not sure who the author was.

It is exciting to me to think that God's plans take into consideration the real decisions that humans make, and this has tragic consequences but also wonderful consequences if people respond positively to Him. Christ will definitely come one day but when it happens depends to a large degree on His church-- i.e., us.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

What Satan has been so effective doing is putting SDA's to sleep, as is described in the prophecy of the 10 Sleeping Bridesmaids in Matt. 25:1-13. This sleep takes several forms, including but not limited to complacency, ignorance, institutional and personal arrogance, and primarily Leodiceanism; believing that they have need of nothing more than they already have, and that no new truth will replace anything that they already now believe.

It amazes me that you believe this is God's church. But at the same time, you believe that God kick started his church off by giving them a false prophet. Who, by the way, was instrumental in helping us arrive at almost every biblical doctrine that we now hold.

If EGW is a false prophet like you say, then you can be sure that this is NOT God's church. God doesn't send his chosen people false prophets. Especially right from the get go.

As far as your premise about new truth goes, it is a false premise. I'll give you an example:

The Ten Commandments are God's truth. Can any new truth come along and change that? Can it make the ten commandments anything other than truth? The answer is NO, of course not!

But under your false premise, YES, it could.

New truth never turns old truth into a lie. It only builds on it.

Starting from the back: it is a false premise to think that all Old Truth is always the real truth. Truth of any stripe needs periodic testing to confirm or deny it. Even EGW said that age does not turn lies into truth. What ever you believe either IS or ISN'T TRUTH, and stands on it's own. What is considered truth today can very easily turn into lies tomorrow, based on the type and quality of information available at the time, as is demonstrated in science and history .

As to the 10 Commandments: I never said that there was no such thing as immutable truth. I am one of the few staunch defenders of the Covenant on this forum, as most Christians take the Pauline view that the Law has been supplanted by grace, and we not longer need the Law.

EGW was NOT a founder of the Advent Movement of the 1830's, Wm. Miller was. It was not until after the Great Disappointment of 1844 that she became a factor in the church, and even the church elders at the time did not consider her to be a founder of the SDA church.

It is my opinion based on Scripture that the existence of EGW as a 'prophet' confirms that the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven. God new that EGW would be accepted by the early Adventists as a prophet and put that fact and event into Bible prophecy, ref. Rev.2:18-26. This description fits the characteristics associated with EGW perfectly, and because the messages to the assemblies are meant ONLY for the Kingdom of Heaven we KNOW for a fact that this prophecy can be referring only to the SDA church.

Just because the church has been influenced by a false prophet does not mean that EVERYONE has been. Jesus warned that this would take place in Matt. 24, and even said that the recognition that something was amiss would not happen until the harvest time was near. Also the description of the 10 sleeping Bridesmaids in Matt. 25:1-13 is also direct confirmation as to who the SDA church is. All of this confirms to me that the SDA church IS indeed the Kingdom of Heaven today.

[Musicman1228]

By the way, Happy Great Disappointment day, everyone. It's been 166 years to the day that the case of mistaken identity that was heard 'round the world happened. The early Adventist thought that they were the Bride when in actuality they were the Bridesmaids.

[John317]

As to the 10 Commandments: I never said that there was no such thing as immutable truth. I am one of the few staunch defenders of the Covenant on this forum, as most Christians take the Pauline view that the Law has been supplanted by grace, and we not longer need the Law.

Paul never said we don't need the law of God. See some of the evidence of this below.

Also, I'm sure you realize that the SDA church doesn't join any Christians in saying the law has been supplanted by grace so that we no longer need the law. What Paul taught is that people are put in right relationship with God not through works of law but by God's grace through faith in Christ.

Paul says in Romans 3: 31 that the doctrine of righteousness by faith does not nullify the law but establishes the law. He also says the following things which prove he didn't teach that faith in Christ does not give us persmission to go on sinning:

Romans 6: 1,2, 15--

Romans 6:1-2

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:15

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1) 1 Cor. 7:19

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

2) 1 Cor. 9:21

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

NOTE: Paul specifically mentions that he is obligated to obey the law of God, which he obviously sees as distinct from the Mosaic laws referred to in v. 22. He says that he is not outside the law of God as taught by Christ in the Gospels.

He shows in Romans 13: 9-11 that God requires believers to obey the Ten Commandments, and in Romans 8, he shows that we can't obey God's law except by the power of the Holy Spirit.

He shows the same in Col. 3: 1-10 and 1 Cor. 6: 9-10.

3) Romans 2:5-11

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

[6] He will render to each one according to his works: [7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; [8] but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. [9] There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11] For God shows no partiality.

[John317]

EGW was NOT a founder of the Advent Movement of the 1830's, Wm. Miller was. It was not until after the Great Disappointment of 1844 that she became a factor in the church, and even the church elders at the time did not consider her to be a founder of the SDA church.

Ellen White was certainly not the founder of the Seventh-day Adventist church or of the Great Advent Movement, but there can be absolutely no doubt that she was raised up by God to be His mouthpiece to the Remnant and that without Ellen White, the SDA church wouldn't exist as we see it today. In fact, I believe history shows that it wouldn't exist at all today if it hadn't been for Ellen White. There are many times when the church would have fallen off the road if God's prophet hadn't been there to show God's guiding hand. This is especially true during the Sabbath Bible Conferences of 1849-51; during the 1860s and again in 1888-1890; and yet again between 1900 to 1910, when the church came close to accepting the false teachings of Ballenger and Kellogg.

Today Ellen White is widely acknolwedged by SDAs as a co-founder of the church, along with James White and Joseph Bates.

[Dr. Rich]

[Words deleted by moderator. Posters may send these kinds of personal messages to others via PM if they desire to communicate them.] The thing is this; Satan will do what ever he can to deceive those close to the truth, so don't think you have NOT been deceived.

Tell me someone how can you know when you have been deceived? What does it feel like?

And why wouldn't it be like Satan to do something drastic to the budding fellowship of followers of Jesus being taught by the disciples, by tweaking the truth just enough to make even the gentils feel good about being saved without having to worry about following the law?

And why wouldn't it be like Satan to KNOW that the budding SDA church is a real danger to him so he used someone to almost completely deceive them and keep them from their first love (roots) of studying the words of Jesus and of prophecy?

And don't think that this could NOT have happened! And don't think that God would not have allowed it to happen! The prophecy of the wheat and weeds had to be true and what better way for this to happen?

Personally, I know Satan hates those of us in the SDA church because the ten commandments really mean something to us. And don't think Satan will not come down on you like a ton of bricks for taking a stand to search for the real truth.