Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[Dr. Rich]

John wrote: "Righteousness by faith does not give people license to teach false doctrine or give out false information about what the Bible teaches or about how it should be translated."

Got a couple questions on this. Is this your rule, or can you provide evidence for it from the words of Jesus? Also, are you the one who makes the determination if something is false, or are we to use the words of Jesus to do that? (Matthew 8:24-29)

John, righteousness by faith is just that, my friend. It is a belief upon faith alone-not on facts. Facts just don't count if one has faith---right? If you believe that you receive your own righteousness because you say you have faith in Jesus, then please tell me what it is that makes 'facts' important to you?

And besides John, what difference does it make if there was ONE tongue or multiple tongues? What should be important is the event itself and the reaction of the event. Did not the event cause confusion? Yes or no? If yes, then my question is why would the Holy Spirit cause confusion?

Could this be an evil spirit? Did not Satan know every language at that time and he may have caused them to speak these languages? If (IF) this IS a posibility, then why not investigate it? Why do you think it is wrong to even question it? (Oh, I forgot, it is something called 'faith'.)

[John317]

If you and I are singing or playing a song out of a book of music, and I tell you that a note in the book is C flat when it is actually F sharp, would you be impressed if I kept insisting I was right and you are wrong? Would it help if I claim that no one can be sure what note it is? Would it make it better if I tell you that you can't be so sure whether I am wrong and you are correct? Would you have good reason to tell me I must not know how to read music?

That's like the situation here where you are telling me that I can't be sure of how Acts 2: 3 should be translated. It is as clear as the notes in the music book. The fact that you would go on defending your error or that you would try to make it appear that no one can be sure of what it says is as foolish as someone continuing to insist that an F sharp on a sheet of music is actually C flat.

Originally Posted By: musicman

The illustration you used proves beyond any doubt that you are not a musician because it is obvious you have no idea what a 'C flat' actually is (it is actually a B natural).

You don't have to prove I'm not a musician. All you have to do is ask me, and I'll tell you I'm not.

But here is the point: Is F Sharp the same as C Flat (or B natural)?

Can you tell the difference between one musical note and another? Is there confusion over it?

The point I am making is that as a musician you can tell one note from another. If you are teaching a band to play music and the trumpet player insists that the note everyone knows is one thing is actually something else entirely, there will be no doubt that he is in error.

I don't have to be a musician to know that musicians can tell the difference between notes.

[John317]

Since the announcement to the serpent in Eden, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed" (Gen. 3:15), Satan had known that he did not hold absolute sway over the world. There was seen in men the working of a power that withstood his dominion. With intense interest he watched the sacrifices offered by Adam and his sons. In these ceremonies he discerned a symbol of communion between earth and heaven. He set himself to intercept this communion. He misrepresented God, and misinterpreted the rites that pointed to the Saviour. Men were led to fear God as one who delighted in their destruction. The sacrifices that should have revealed His love were offered only to appease His wrath. Satan excited the evil passions of men, in order to fasten his rule upon them. When God's written word was given, Satan studied the prophecies of the Saviour's advent. From generation to generation he worked to blind the people to these prophecies, that they might reject Christ at His coming. {DA 115.1}

At the birth of Jesus, Satan knew that One had come with a divine commission to dispute his dominion. He trembled at the angel's message attesting the authority of the newborn King. Satan well knew the position that Christ had held in heaven as the Beloved of the Father. That the Son of God should come to this earth as a man filled him with amazement and with apprehension. He could not fathom the mystery of this great sacrifice. His selfish soul could not understand such love for the deceived race. The glory and peace of heaven, and the joy of communion with God, were but dimly comprehended by men; but they

116

were well known to Lucifer, the covering cherub. Since he had lost heaven, he was determined to find revenge by causing others to share his fall. This he would do by causing them to undervalue heavenly things, and to set the heart upon things of earth. {DA 115.2}

Not without hindrance was the Commander of heaven to win the souls of men to His kingdom. From the time when He was a babe in Bethlehem, He was continually assailed by the evil one. The image of God was manifest in Christ, and in the councils of Satan it was determined that He should be overcome. No human being had come into the world and escaped the power of the deceiver. The forces of the confederacy of evil were set upon His track to engage in warfare against Him, and if possible to prevail over Him. {DA 116.1}

At the Saviour's baptism, Satan was among the witnesses. He saw the Father's glory overshadowing His Son. He heard the voice of Jehovah testifying to the divinity of Jesus. Ever since Adam's sin, the human race had been cut off from direct communion with God; the intercourse between heaven and earth had been through Christ; but now that Jesus had come "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Rom. 8:3), the Father Himself spoke. He had before communicated with humanity through Christ; now He communicated with humanity in Christ. Satan had hoped that God's abhorrence of evil would bring an eternal separation between heaven and earth. But now it was manifest that the connection between God and man had been restored. {DA 116.2}

Satan saw that he must either conquer or be conquered. The issues of the conflict involved too much to be entrusted to his confederate angels. He must personally conduct the warfare. All the energies of apostasy were rallied against the Son of God. Christ was made the mark of every weapon of hell. {DA 116.3}

Many look on this conflict between Christ and Satan as having no special bearing on their own life; and for them it has little interest. But within the domain of every human heart this controversy is repeated. Never does one leave the ranks of evil for the service of God without encountering the assaults of Satan. The enticements which Christ resisted were those that we find it so difficult to withstand. They were urged upon Him in as much greater degree as His character is superior to ours. With the terrible weight of the sins of the world upon Him, Christ withstood the test upon appetite, upon the love of the world, and upon that love of display which leads to presumption. These were the

117

temptations that overcame Adam and Eve, and that so readily overcome us. {DA 116.4}

Satan had pointed to Adam's sin as proof that God's law was unjust, and could not be obeyed. In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation. {DA 117.1}

Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured. {DA 117.2}

With Christ, as with the holy pair in Eden, appetite was the ground of the first great temptation. Just where the ruin began, the work of our redemption must begin. As by the indulgence of appetite Adam fell, so by the denial of appetite Christ must overcome. "And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." {DA 117.3}

From the time of Adam to that of Christ, self-indulgence had increased the power of the appetites and passions, until they had almost unlimited control. Thus men had become debased and diseased, and of themselves it was impossible for them to overcome. In man's behalf, Christ conquered by enduring the severest test. For our sake He exercised a self-control stronger than hunger or death. And in this first victory were involved other issues that enter into all our conflicts with the powers of darkness. {DA 117.4}

When Jesus entered the wilderness, He was shut in by the Father's glory. Absorbed in communion with God, He was lifted above human weakness. But the glory departed, and He was left to battle with temptation. It was pressing upon Him every moment. His human nature shrank from the conflict that awaited Him. For forty days He fasted and prayed. Weak and emaciated from hunger, worn and haggard with mental agony, "His visage was so marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men." Isa. 52:14. Now was Satan's opportunity. Now he supposed that he could overcome Christ. {DA 118.1}

There came to the Saviour, as if in answer to His prayers, one in the guise of an angel from heaven. He claimed to have a commission from God to declare that Christ's fast was at an end. As God had sent an angel to stay the hand of Abraham from offering Isaac, so, satisfied with Christ's willingness to enter the bloodstained path, the Father had sent an angel to deliver Him; this was the message brought to Jesus. The Saviour was faint from hunger, He was craving for food, when Satan came suddenly upon Him. Pointing to the stones which strewed the desert, and which had the appearance of loaves, the tempter said, "If Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread." {DA 118.2}

Though he appears as an angel of light, these first words betray his character. "If Thou be the Son of God." Here is the insinuation of distrust. Should Jesus do what Satan suggests, it would be an acceptance of the doubt. The tempter plans to overthrow Christ by the same means that were so successful with the human race in the beginning. How artfully had Satan approached Eve in Eden! "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Gen. 3:1. Thus far the tempter's words were truth; but in his manner of speaking them there was a disguised contempt for the words of God. There was a covert negative, a doubt of the divine truthfulness. Satan sought to instill into the mind of Eve the thought that God would not do as He had said; that the withholding of such beautiful fruit was a contradiction of His love and compassion for man. So now the tempter seeks to inspire Christ with his own sentiments. "If Thou be the Son of God." The words rankle with bitterness in his mind. In the tones of his voice is an expression of utter incredulity. Would God treat His own Son thus? Would He leave Him in the desert with wild beasts, without food, without companions, without comfort? He insinuates that God never meant His Son to be in such a state as this. "If Thou be the Son of God," show Thy power by relieving Thyself of this pressing hunger. Command that this stone be made bread. {DA 118.3}

Continued

[John317]

Since the announcement to the serpent in Eden, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed" (Gen. 3:15), Satan had known that he did not hold absolute sway over the world. There was seen in men the working of a power that withstood his dominion. With intense interest he watched the sacrifices offered by Adam and his sons. In these ceremonies he discerned a symbol of communion between earth and heaven. He set himself to intercept this communion. He misrepresented God, and misinterpreted the rites that pointed to the Saviour. Men were led to fear God as one who delighted in their destruction. The sacrifices that should have revealed His love were offered only to appease His wrath. Satan excited the evil passions of men, in order to fasten his rule upon them. When God's written word was given, Satan studied the prophecies of the Saviour's advent. From generation to generation he worked to blind the people to these prophecies, that they might reject Christ at His coming. {DA 115.1}

At the birth of Jesus, Satan knew that One had come with a divine commission to dispute his dominion. He trembled at the angel's message attesting the authority of the newborn King. Satan well knew the position that Christ had held in heaven as the Beloved of the Father. That the Son of God should come to this earth as a man filled him with amazement and with apprehension. He could not fathom the mystery of this great sacrifice. His selfish soul could not understand such love for the deceived race. The glory and peace of heaven, and the joy of communion with God, were but dimly comprehended by men; but they

116

were well known to Lucifer, the covering cherub. Since he had lost heaven, he was determined to find revenge by causing others to share his fall. This he would do by causing them to undervalue heavenly things, and to set the heart upon things of earth. {DA 115.2}

Not without hindrance was the Commander of heaven to win the souls of men to His kingdom. From the time when He was a babe in Bethlehem, He was continually assailed by the evil one. The image of God was manifest in Christ, and in the councils of Satan it was determined that He should be overcome. No human being had come into the world and escaped the power of the deceiver. The forces of the confederacy of evil were set upon His track to engage in warfare against Him, and if possible to prevail over Him. {DA 116.1}

At the Saviour's baptism, Satan was among the witnesses. He saw the Father's glory overshadowing His Son. He heard the voice of Jehovah testifying to the divinity of Jesus. Ever since Adam's sin, the human race had been cut off from direct communion with God; the intercourse between heaven and earth had been through Christ; but now that Jesus had come "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Rom. 8:3), the Father Himself spoke. He had before communicated with humanity through Christ; now He communicated with humanity in Christ. Satan had hoped that God's abhorrence of evil would bring an eternal separation between heaven and earth. But now it was manifest that the connection between God and man had been restored. {DA 116.2}

Satan saw that he must either conquer or be conquered. The issues of the conflict involved too much to be entrusted to his confederate angels. He must personally conduct the warfare. All the energies of apostasy were rallied against the Son of God. Christ was made the mark of every weapon of hell. {DA 116.3}

Many look on this conflict between Christ and Satan as having no special bearing on their own life; and for them it has little interest. But within the domain of every human heart this controversy is repeated. Never does one leave the ranks of evil for the service of God without encountering the assaults of Satan. The enticements which Christ resisted were those that we find it so difficult to withstand. They were urged upon Him in as much greater degree as His character is superior to ours. With the terrible weight of the sins of the world upon Him, Christ withstood the test upon appetite, upon the love of the world, and upon that love of display which leads to presumption. These were the

117

temptations that overcame Adam and Eve, and that so readily overcome us. {DA 116.4}

Satan had pointed to Adam's sin as proof that God's law was unjust, and could not be obeyed. In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation. {DA 117.1}

Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured. {DA 117.2}

With Christ, as with the holy pair in Eden, appetite was the ground of the first great temptation. Just where the ruin began, the work of our redemption must begin. As by the indulgence of appetite Adam fell, so by the denial of appetite Christ must overcome. "And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." {DA 117.3}

From the time of Adam to that of Christ, self-indulgence had increased the power of the appetites and passions, until they had almost unlimited control. Thus men had become debased and diseased, and of themselves it was impossible for them to overcome. In man's behalf, Christ conquered by enduring the severest test. For our sake He exercised a self-control stronger than hunger or death. And in this first victory were involved other issues that enter into all our conflicts with the powers of darkness. {DA 117.4}

When Jesus entered the wilderness, He was shut in by the Father's glory. Absorbed in communion with God, He was lifted above human weakness. But the glory departed, and He was left to battle with temptation. It was pressing upon Him every moment. His human nature shrank from the conflict that awaited Him. For forty days He fasted and prayed. Weak and emaciated from hunger, worn and haggard with mental agony, "His visage was so marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men." Isa. 52:14. Now was Satan's opportunity. Now he supposed that he could overcome Christ. {DA 118.1}

There came to the Saviour, as if in answer to His prayers, one in the guise of an angel from heaven. He claimed to have a commission from God to declare that Christ's fast was at an end. As God had sent an angel to stay the hand of Abraham from offering Isaac, so, satisfied with Christ's willingness to enter the bloodstained path, the Father had sent an angel to deliver Him; this was the message brought to Jesus. The Saviour was faint from hunger, He was craving for food, when Satan came suddenly upon Him. Pointing to the stones which strewed the desert, and which had the appearance of loaves, the tempter said, "If Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread." {DA 118.2}

Though he appears as an angel of light, these first words betray his character. "If Thou be the Son of God." Here is the insinuation of distrust. Should Jesus do what Satan suggests, it would be an acceptance of the doubt. The tempter plans to overthrow Christ by the same means that were so successful with the human race in the beginning. How artfully had Satan approached Eve in Eden! "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Gen. 3:1. Thus far the tempter's words were truth; but in his manner of speaking them there was a disguised contempt for the words of God. There was a covert negative, a doubt of the divine truthfulness. Satan sought to instill into the mind of Eve the thought that God would not do as He had said; that the withholding of such beautiful fruit was a contradiction of His love and compassion for man. So now the tempter seeks to inspire Christ with his own sentiments. "If Thou be the Son of God." The words rankle with bitterness in his mind. In the tones of his voice is an expression of utter incredulity. Would God treat His own Son thus? Would He leave Him in the desert with wild beasts, without food, without companions, without comfort? He insinuates that God never meant His Son to be in such a state as this. "If Thou be the Son of God," show Thy power by

119

relieving Thyself of this pressing hunger. Command that this stone be made bread. {DA 118.3}

The words from heaven, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17), were still sounding in the ears of Satan. But he was determined to make Christ disbelieve this testimony. The word of God was Christ's assurance of His divine mission. He had come to live as a man among men, and it was the word that declared His connection with heaven. It was Satan's purpose to cause Him to doubt that word. If Christ's confidence in God could be shaken, Satan knew that the victory in the whole controversy would be his. He could overcome Jesus. He hoped that under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, Christ would lose faith in His Father, and work a miracle in His own behalf. Had He done this, the plan of salvation would have been broken. {DA 119.1}

When Satan and the Son of God first met in conflict, Christ was the commander of the heavenly hosts; and Satan, the leader of revolt in heaven, was cast out. Now their condition is apparently reversed, and Satan makes the most of his supposed advantage. One of the most powerful of the angels, he says, has been banished from heaven. The appearance of Jesus indicates that He is that fallen angel, forsaken by God, and deserted by man. A divine being would be able to sustain his claim by working a miracle; "if Thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread." Such an act of creative power, urges the tempter, would be conclusive evidence of divinity. It would bring the controversy to an end. {DA 119.2}

Not without a struggle could Jesus listen in silence to the arch-deceiver. But the Son of God was not to prove His divinity to Satan, or to explain the reason of His humiliation. By conceding to the demands of the rebel, nothing for the good of man or the glory of God would be gained. Had Christ complied with the suggestion of the enemy, Satan would still have said, Show me a sign that I may believe you to be the Son of God. Evidence would have been worthless to break the power of rebellion in his heart. And Christ was not to exercise divine power for His own benefit. He had come to bear trial as we must do, leaving us an example of faith and submission. Neither here nor at any subsequent time in His earthly life did He work a miracle in His own behalf. His wonderful works were all for the good of others. Though Jesus recognized Satan from the beginning, He was not provoked to enter into controversy with him. Strengthened with the memory of the voice

120

from heaven, He rested in His Father's love. He would not parley with temptation. {DA 119.3}

Jesus met Satan with the words of Scripture. "It is written," He said. In every temptation the weapon of His warfare was the word of God. Satan demanded of Christ a miracle as a sign of His divinity. But that which is greater than all miracles, a firm reliance upon a "Thus saith the Lord," was a sign that could not be controverted. So long as Christ held to this position, the tempter could gain no advantage. {DA 120.1}

It was in the time of greatest weakness that Christ was assailed by the fiercest temptations. Thus Satan thought to prevail. By this policy he had gained the victory over men. When strength failed, and the will power weakened, and faith ceased to repose in God, then those who had stood long and valiantly for the right were overcome. Moses was wearied with the forty years' wandering of Israel, when for the moment his faith let go its hold upon infinite power. He failed just upon the borders of the Promised Land. So with Elijah, who had stood undaunted before King Ahab, who had faced the whole nation of Israel, with the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal at their head. After that terrible day upon Carmel, when the false prophets had been slain, and the people had declared their allegiance to God, Elijah fled for his life before the threats of the idolatrous Jezebel. Thus Satan has taken advantage of the weakness of humanity. And he will still work in the same way. Whenever one is encompassed with clouds, perplexed by circumstances, or afflicted by poverty or distress, Satan is at hand to tempt and annoy. He attacks our weak points of character. He seeks to shake our confidence in God, who suffers such a condition of things to exist. We are tempted to distrust God, to question His love. Often the tempter comes to us as he came to Christ, arraying before us our

121

weakness and infirmities. He hopes to discourage the soul, and to break our hold on God. Then he is sure of his prey. If we would meet him as Jesus did, we should escape many a defeat. By parleying with the enemy, we give him an advantage. {DA 120.2}

When Christ said to the tempter, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God," He repeated the words that, more than fourteen hundred years before, He had spoken to Israel: "The Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness. . . . And He humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that He might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live." Deut. 8:2, 3. In the wilderness, when all means of sustenance failed, God sent His people manna from heaven; and a sufficient and constant supply was given. This provision was to teach them that while they trusted in God and walked in His ways He would not forsake them. The Saviour now practiced the lesson He had taught to Israel. By the word of God succor had been given to the Hebrew host, and by the same word it would be given to Jesus. He awaited God's time to bring relief. He was in the wilderness in obedience to God, and He would not obtain food by following the suggestions of Satan. In the presence of the witnessing universe, He testified that it is a less calamity to suffer whatever may befall than to depart in any manner from the will of God. {DA 121.1}

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." Often the follower of Christ is brought where he cannot serve God and carry forward his worldly enterprises. Perhaps it appears that obedience to some plain requirement of God will cut off his means of support. Satan would make him believe that he must sacrifice his conscientious convictions. But the only thing in our world upon which we can rely is the word of God. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt. 6:33. Even in this life it is not for our good to depart from the will of our Father in heaven. When we learn the power of His word, we shall not follow the suggestions of Satan in order to obtain food or to save our lives. Our only questions will be, What is God's command? and what His promise? Knowing these, we shall obey the one, and trust the other. {DA 121.2}

In the last great conflict of the controversy with Satan those who are loyal to God will see every earthly support cut off. Because they refuse

122

to break His law in obedience to earthly powers, they will be forbidden to buy or sell. It will finally be decreed that they shall be put to death. See Rev. 13:11-17. But to the obedient is given the promise, "He shall dwell on high: his place of defense shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure." Isa. 33:16. By this promise the children of God will live. When the earth shall be wasted with famine, they shall be fed. "They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied." Ps. 37:19. To that time of distress the prophet Habakkuk looked forward, and his words express the faith of the church: "Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation." Hab. 3:17, 18. {DA 121.3}

Of all the lessons to be learned from our Lord's first great temptation none is more important than that bearing upon the control of the appetites and passions. In all ages, temptations appealing to the physical nature have been most effectual in corrupting and degrading mankind. Through intemperance, Satan works to destroy the mental and moral powers that God gave to man as a priceless endowment. Thus it becomes impossible for men to appreciate things of eternal worth. Through sensual indulgence, Satan seeks to blot from the soul every trace of likeness to God. {DA 122.1}

The uncontrolled indulgence and consequent disease and degradation that existed at Christ's first advent will again exist, with intensity of evil, before His second coming. Christ declares that the condition of the world will be as in the days before the Flood, and as in Sodom and Gomorrah. Every imagination of the thoughts of the heart will be evil continually. Upon the very verge of that fearful time we are now living, and to us should come home the lesson of the Saviour's fast. Only by the inexpressible anguish which Christ endured can we estimate the evil of unrestrained indulgence. His example declares that our only hope of eternal life is through bringing the appetites and passions into subjection to the will of God. {DA 122.2}

In our own strength it is impossible for us to deny the clamors of our fallen nature. Through this channel Satan will bring temptation upon us. Christ knew that the enemy would come to every human being, to take advantage of hereditary weakness, and by his false insinuations to ensnare all whose trust is not in God. And by passing over the ground which

123

man must travel, our Lord has prepared the way for us to overcome. It is not His will that we should be placed at a disadvantage in the conflict with Satan. He would not have us intimidated and discouraged by the assaults of the serpent. "Be of good cheer," He says; "I have overcome the world." John 16:33. {DA 122.3}

Let him who is struggling against the power of appetite look to the Saviour in the wilderness of temptation. See Him in His agony upon the cross, as He exclaimed, "I thirst." He has endured all that it is possible for us to bear. His victory is ours. {DA 123.1}

Jesus rested upon the wisdom and strength of His heavenly Father. He declares, "The Lord God will help Me; therefore shall I not be confounded: . . . and I know that I shall not be ashamed. . . . Behold, the Lord God will help Me." Pointing to His own example, He says to us, "Who is among you that feareth the Lord, . . . that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isa. 50:7-10. {DA 123.2}

"The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character. {DA 123.3}

And how this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the word of God. Only by the word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2 Peter 1:4. Every promise in God's word is ours. "By every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" are we to live. When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the word. All its strength is yours. "Thy word," says the psalmist, "have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee." "By the word of Thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer." Ps. 119:11; 17:4. {DA 123.4}

[John317]

I answered your question on post #411069. Now please do as you said and respond to post #410874.

[Musicman1228]

I answered your question on post #411069. Now please do as you said and respond to post #410874.

John,

I gave you the answer to your query in #411255, and I have nothing more to say to you on this subject after this. You and I will never see eye to eye on this because you maintain that a scholastic understanding of the use of Greek is the only way to truly understand of the meanings of the verses, yet when a rank amateur points out an inconsistency between the translation which lists a plural use (tongues) and the original word which is singular (tongue) you are so tied to your paradigm that you cannot see your way clear to even consider an alternative. Your excuse for this is simply that you believe that you know more about Greek than do I (true) and therefore there is no possible way that what I believe could ever be true (not true). I'm sorry but I just don't buy this attitude. Why can't the meaning be something different than is in your understanding? The meaning can't be different than you believe it is because this would upset your entire theology and call into question the foundation of the Christianity to which you have become accustomed. Without Pentecost your whole idea about the Holy Spirit would go out the window, and this is something that you cannot imagine. Whether this attitude stems from arrogance or indifference I don't know. I do know that just because the church believes something to be true does not automatically make it true, any more than your belief that God sent the true Holy Spirit on Pentecost automatically make that true. Just because something is believed to be true for a long time does not make it true in fact.

Also, your quoting massive amounts of EGW as proof that you are correct is wasted on me. I will accept nothing less than the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as my only source for truth.

[Twilight]

Why do people think that when Jesus gave His disciples the Holy Spirit before His ascension it was only for the purpose of giving them the breath of life? They already HAD this type of breath because the already were alive. No, the Spirit that Jesus gave His disciples was the Holy Spirit (Ruach) that promoted in them the desire to accomplish the task for which Jesus had spent a year training them, and gave them the ability and power to accomplish that task. There was NO NEED for any other 'outpouring' of that Spirit after this, because Jesus as God would not need more than one try at giving His Spirit to anyone; He would have, and did, succeed the first time.

The Spirit is given in two measures.

The former rain and the latter rain.

The apostles received the fomer rain in the upper room.

They received the latter rain at Pentecost.

One was to give them "new life".

The other was to give them "power to spread the gospel".

Two parts:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Fire was symbolised in the upper room, baptism or "full immersion" in the Spirit at Pentecost I believe.

[Twilight]

No, John, you didn't answer my specific question about the Holy Spirit/Ruach being the feminine attribute of God. You dodged it by giving a lesson in the use of the Greek language.

Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as a "HIM".

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[Twilight]

Twilight- that is not what it states in Acts 2. "They" all (everyone as in verse 6-9) received what they said what the spirit-so how could their enemies be there too? It does say "others" in verse 13, but then WHY didn't the Holy Spirit (if it really was) come to them too? As an investigator, this whole 'story' is very fishy.

That is incorrect, it specifically states who was there and who accussed the disciples of drinking "new wine":

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

It is clear from this, that the crowd that gathered accused the disciples of drunkenness...

[John317]

I answered your question on post #411069. Now please do as you said and respond to post #410874.

Originally Posted By: musicman

John,

I gave you the answer to your query in #410874, and I have nothing more to say to you on this subject after this.

You said earlier that you would respond to post #411069 after I answered your question. I answered the question, and then you told me you would only answer if I answer another question, this one from Wayfinder. Now you are saying you are not going to respond at all to #411069.

I responded to your post#411069 as well as #410874 and showed that you are in error in your answers. Are you not going to respond to my evidence and reasoning? If not, why not?

Originally Posted By: Musicman

You and I will never see eye to eye on this because you maintain that a scholastic understanding of the use of Greek is the only way to truly understand of the meanings of the verses, yet when a rank amateur points out an inconsistency between the translation which lists a plural use (tongues) and the original word which is singular (tongue) you are so tied to your paradigm that you cannot see your way clear to even consider an alternative.

What if I said the same to you about musical notes? What if I told you that you are so tied to what you learned in school about music that you cannot see that a note is not what you think it is? That is exactly what you are telling me.

It would be like telling someone that they don't know the ABCs correctly because they know the ABCs too well.

What do you mean, "the original word which is singular"? And what do you mean by "an inconsistency between the translation which lists a plural use and the original word"?

I would like to know if Wayfinder agrees with these things that you are saying. Did you teach these things about Acts 2 in his Sabbath School class or on the radio program?

Can you find a single translation that translates Acts 2: 3 the way you think it ought to be translated?

Of my 67 translations, not a single one translates it the way you believe it ought to be translated. For you to hang on your error makes you look very foolish indeed.

Your doing this is about like someone who knows no German believing that his translation is correct while the whole nation of Germany knows differently. It's madness, MM, and if Wayfinder and Dr. Rich defend your viewpoint on it and agree with you, they are in the same boat as you are. You would have absolutely no credibility with anyone who knows anything about the subject. If this is how you and they think, why would any reasonable person want to appear on your program? Prospective guests only appear on programs that they respect and when they have some confidence in the reasonableness and intelletual integrity of the people.

Would you want to go on a program and talk about music to people who believe the musical notes are not what you know they are on standard musical sheets?

[John317]

Your excuse for this is simply that you believe that you know more about Greek than do I (true) and therefore there is no possible way that what I believe could ever be true (not true). I'm sorry but I just don't buy this attitude. Why can't the meaning be something different than is in your understanding?

What would you think of someone who knows no German and who believes that a particular noun in German is singular despite all the evidence to the contrary. He goes to Germans who are fluent in that language and asks them whether it is plural or singular. They all tell him it is plural. Then he looks in text books on German and finds the same answer as all the people gave. All the translations also have that word as a plural. But depite all this evidence, this individual goes on insisting that the word should be translated as a singular noun.

Tell me what you think of someone who is doing this.

[John317]

...The meaning can't be different than you believe it is because this would upset your entire theology and call into question the foundation of the Christianity to which you have become accustomed. Without Pentecost your whole idea about the Holy Spirit would go out the window, and this is something that you cannot imagine. Whether this attitude stems from arrogance or indifference I don't know.

The situation is actually the reverse of what you say here. From your viewpoint, the meaning of Acts 2: 3 can't be what all the translations and Greek text books say it is because this would upset your entire theology and call into question the foundation of your theory that it was the Devil who inspired Peter on the day of Pentecost.

If the Holy Spirit inspired Peter on Pentecost,your theories about the New Testament, and particularly about the early church's acceptance of Paul, would be shown to be foolishness.

If and when you have a second edition of your book published, would you have a Greek scholar help edit those portions of your book dealing with Greek, or would you print the same errors for you readers?

[John317]

I do know that just because the church believes something to be true does not automatically make it true, any more than your belief that God sent the true Holy Spirit on Pentecost automatically make that true. Just because something is believed to be true for a long time does not make it true in fact.

This is not "the church." We're talking about the translation of the Greek language in a specific verse, Acts 2: 3.

No one is claiming that something is true because it is believed to be true for a long time. But neither is something false just because it is believed to be true for a long time by everyone who knows anything about the topic. Something that has been held to be true for a long time is not false simply because two or three men come along and say it is false. That's madness, MM. You have absolutely no basis for saying Acts 2: 3 should be translated as "a tongue." None whatsoever, except for your desire to have it so. Out of 67 translations, not a single one renders it the way you-- someone who knows nothing of the Greek language-- think it should.

[John317]

Also, your quoting massive amounts of EGW as proof that you are correct is wasted on me. I will accept nothing less than the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as my only source for truth.

What I am posting from Ellen White on Satan's attack on the SDA church and on Seventh-day Adventists is for members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I am doing this for the benefit of those who accept the Spirit of propehcy. If you choose to reject it and not pay attention to what Ellen White wrote on the topic, that is your prerogative.

[Musicman1228]

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

The 'fire' mentioned here by John the Baptist is the fire of trials, as in 'trial by fire', and is not an indicator as to how God provides the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.

"Because you have kept my command to wait patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of TRIAL that is to come upon the whole world, to TEST those who dwell on the earth." Rev.3:10.

We have all experienced the trials of life, this is just a normal part of living. Yet when we commit to the path of righteousness and ask God to lead us into truth through His Spirit the forces of evil often redouble their efforts in trying to get us to back away from this commitment, by attacking us personally and/or by attacking our family and friends.

Jesus Christ spoke of the ministry of the Holy Spirit as a function of this guidance into truth, and He also said that we would to greater things than what He did in showing His power in the world, but I have found no place where Jesus Himself speaks of a latter rain of the Holy Spirit that will come by fire. On the contrary, I have only seen Jesus give the Holy Spirit to His own disciples by peaceful method, just as He showed Elijah the Holy Spirit as a 'still, small voice' on the side of a mountain in the Negev desert.

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20:21-23.

[John317]

I agree with most of your post here, MM.

[John317]

..."They" all (everyone as in verse 6-9) received what they said what the spirit-so how could their enemies be there too? It does say "others" in verse 13, but then WHY didn't the Holy Spirit (if it really was) come to them too? As an investigator, this whole 'story' is very fishy.

Acts 2: 1-9--

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. [2] And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. [3] And divided tongues(the Greek being a plural noun) as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

[5] Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. [6] And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. [7] And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? [8] And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? [9] Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

Also check out verse 13--

Acts 2:13

But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."

It is obvious that the ones who accused them of being drunk were those mocking them, not those who believed them.

Would you want people to take the word of others who come to your program mocking you? I doubt it.

There's also the fact that people heard others speaking in their own language when the speakers did not know those foreign languages. Satan can't do this. It was obviously a miracle of God.

Question: Is the word "tongues" in v. 4 correctly translated as a plural or singular? And why?

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: fccool

If we call doing anything that can potentially harm the body to be a "sin", then at times it's a sin to simply live in large city. It's a slippery slope that you don't want to go down, because it never ends.

That's why the principle of self-control and moderation is much better than beating people over-the-head with extra-Biblical preferences. I.E. you are not truly saved unless you stop smoking or drinking coffee. It's immature to think that God of the universe would be so childish as to deny people relationship with him because of current habits that takes time to overcome.

I agree with a lot that you say here, but I do think it's important for us to practice the principle that our bodies are the temple of God and that He wants us to keep our bodies in good health by doing what we know is right.

We can't tell people that they can't be saved if they are drinking coffee or smoking. At least no one should ever say this, much less think it.

And I agree with you that God doesn't deny people relationship with him because of habits that take time to overcome. But let's not make this truth a reason for not sincerely praying for Christ's power to overcome those habits and make the needed changes in our lives to help make us better witnesses to the gospel.

When I was trying to overcome the habit of smoking (30 some years ago) I kept trying and trying and trying... is that what is meant by "habits that take time to overcome?" But the moment I said to God, "Lord I can't overcome this habit. You take care of it," I knew in my heart of hearts that the problem had been solved and it was. When I read that the habits of drinking coffee and tea and alcohol had to be given up because they were harmful, (including meat eating) I did the same thing. I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: fccool

John, the truth is that I've never really agreed with a lot of of her statements,

Yes, I know.

Originally Posted By: fccool

and I'm doing so on Biblical grounds.

People reject the SDA view of the state of the dead or the Sabbath on what they consider biblical grounds. As far as my own experience goes, virtually everyone who leaves the SDA church and all Christians who reject Ellen White claim to do so on the basis of what they believe the Bible teaches.

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate reasons to disagree with some things Ellen White said, because I don't know what things you are talking about and what biblical reasons you are giving.

But I'm sure you recognize that people often disagree with biblical doctrines on the basis of what they understand (or rather misunderstand) the Bible to say.

Originally Posted By: fccool

Does it mean I'm a follower of Satan, or that Satan is using me? This is what you seem to imply.

No, I am not saying that all disagreements with Ellen White are due to Satan's work.

However, I do believe that all SDAs who reject her are being deceived by Satan. Similarly, all people who reject the Bible and the gospel are deceived by Satan.

Do you beleive that Satan has any reason to make the Seventh-day Adventist Church the object of his hatred and attacks?

John it is a fact that the Advent People were called of God to illuminate the whole earth, to give the third angel's message which is a call to cease to look to man, calling a people away from the track of Romanism, a call to look to Christ alone and to His all-sufficient merits in order to obtain the righteousness which is of God by faith. But the church did not even accept that message but resisted the light. So how can we claim that the church is preaching the third angel's message today? On the contrary, the church is more and more becoming like the other churches, that is, like the world, while professing to be the church of the third angel's message!!!

sky :)

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: fccool

Every Christian sect will tell you the same old story, if you don't believe their version of Christianity, then you are being deceived by the Satan.

Any people who are sincerely seeking truth and wanting to do what is right will be the subject of Satan's attacks. It doesn't matter whether they are SDA or not.

Originally Posted By: fccool

To me, it's a version of membership by fear and guilt rather than openness of exploration of the truth and reason.

I don't believe the church or any individuals in it want people to stay in the church out of fear and guilt. That would not be helpful to anyone.

It's very important for Seventh-day Adventists to know the truth that Satan hates the SDA church and hates those who sincerely and honestly seek to do all of God's will. He hates and attacks this church because he can't attack Christ personally but he can attack the objects of Christ's love. He also attacks the church because he knows that if the people awaken spiritually and do what God wants them to do, Satan will lose the battle for this world. He knows he's already lost the war against Christ, but he's out to take as many people with him that he can. He's also interested in delaying the second coming of Christ and the time of his destruction as long as possible.

There's a big difference between sincere and honest search for truth and rebellion against God, and against His prophets and apostles.

Do you think anyone is in rebellion against God and against His prophets? What's the difference between this and the sincere search for the truth?

John, Satan no longer hates the adventist church. He used to but not any more. Why should he hate the seventh-day adventist church today when the Lord has told us that we were following his methods, that we were following in the track of Romanism?

You know the statements, don't u John?

sky

*now he is down to hating those individiuals in the churh whom he has not been able to deceive yet. He is constantly at war with them in the hope that he will finally overcome them as well. He will never give up trying.

[Twilight]

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

The 'fire' mentioned here by John the Baptist is the fire of trials, as in 'trial by fire', and is not an indicator as to how God provides the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.

"Because you have kept my command to wait patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of TRIAL that is to come upon the whole world, to TEST those who dwell on the earth." Rev.3:10.

We have all experienced the trials of life, this is just a normal part of living. Yet when we commit to the path of righteousness and ask God to lead us into truth through His Spirit the forces of evil often redouble their efforts in trying to get us to back away from this commitment, by attacking us personally and/or by attacking our family and friends.

Jesus Christ spoke of the ministry of the Holy Spirit as a function of this guidance into truth, and He also said that we would to greater things than what He did in showing His power in the world, but I have found no place where Jesus Himself speaks of a latter rain of the Holy Spirit that will come by fire. On the contrary, I have only seen Jesus give the Holy Spirit to His own disciples by peaceful method, just as He showed Elijah the Holy Spirit as a 'still, small voice' on the side of a mountain in the Negev desert.

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20:21-23.

But don' you think it curious that both of those instances happened?

Fire in the upper room.

Full baptism of the Spirit at pentecost?

I understand your usage of fire here as symbolic of trials, but it does not make my point invalid. :-)

[Twilight]

When I was trying to overcome the habit of smoking (30 some years ago) I kept trying and trying and trying... is that what is meant by "habits that take time to overcome?" But the moment I said to God, "Lord I can't overcome this habit. You take care of it," I knew in my heart of hearts that the problem had been solved and it was. When I read that the habits of drinking coffee and tea and alcohol had to be given up because they were harmful, (including meat eating) I did the same thing. I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

sky

Indeed.

Cleansing from sinful habit is based on this text:

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We confess.

He forgives.

He cleanses (removes).

Our part is to acknowledge our sin and accept by faith His gift of cleansing.

[Twilight]

John it is a fact that the Advent People were called of God to illuminate the whole earth, to give the third angel's message which is a call to cease to look to man, calling a people away from the track of Romanism, a call to look to Christ alone and to His all-sufficient merits in order to obtain the righteousness which is of God by faith. But the church did not even accept that message but resisted the light. So how can we claim that the church is preaching the third angel's message today? On the contrary, the church is more and more becoming like the other churches, that is, like the world, while professing to be the church of the third angel's message!!!

sky

Whilst this is true Sky.

I think we are starting to see movement amongst Gods people.

They are starting to understand about the merits of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We may be seeing the revival, the early buds that so many of us have been waiting for and looking for in our own lives...

[Dr. Rich]

Goodmorning Sky, you are right about Adventists wanting to be like the rest of the Christian churches--why? I asked a well known pastor in the LL area why he was an Adventist and he thought for a moment and then said "because Adventists have more truth than the rest".

We are told that true worshipers will be worshiping both in 'spirit' and in 'truth'. Therefore, it is clear to me that truth is a very important issue and since we are also told that the Holy Spirit will be the one to lead truth seekers to ALL truth, it seems (to me) like Adventists are headed in the wrong direction attempting to be like the rest of the churches.

This is why I question every aspect of the Adventist doctrines to see IF every one of them can be verified by the OT and the words of Jesus.

Now, as for the 'third angel's message', can anyone explain "the HOUR of His judgment as come"? Is this the time the IJ started? (BTW-I really don't know the answer to this.)

[Musicman1228]