Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[John317]

The members of the church were united in sentiment and action. Love for Christ was the golden chain that bound them together. They followed on to know the Lord more and still more perfectly, and in their lives were revealed the joy and peace of Christ. They visited the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and kept themselves unspotted from the world, realizing that a failure to do this would be a contradiction of their profession and a denial of their Redeemer. {AA 579.1}

In every city the work was carried forward. Souls were converted, who in their turn felt that they must tell of the inestimable treasure they had received. They could not rest till the light which had illumined their minds was shining upon others. Multitudes of unbelievers were made acquainted with the reasons of the Christian's hope. Warm, inspired personal appeals were made to the erring, to the outcast, and to those who, while professing to know the truth, were lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. {AA 579.2}

But after a time the zeal of the believers began to wane, and their love for God and for one another grew less. Coldness crept into the church. Some forgot the wonderful manner in which they had received the truth. One by one the old standard-bearers fell at their post. Some of the younger workers, who might have shared the burdens of these pioneers, and thus have been prepared for wise leadership, had become weary of oft-repeated truths. In their desire for something novel and startling they attempted to introduce new phases of doctrine, more pleasing to many minds, but not in harmony with the fundamental principles of the gospel. In their self-confidence and spiritual blindness they failed to discern that these sophistries would cause many to question the experiences of the past, and would thus lead to confusion and unbelief. {AA 580.1}

As these false doctrines were urged, differences sprang up, and the eyes of many were turned from beholding Jesus as the Author and Finisher of their faith. The discussion of unimportant points of doctrine, and the contemplation of pleasing fables of man's invention, occupied time that should have been spent in proclaiming the gospel. The masses that might have been convicted and converted by a faithful presentation of the truth were left unwarned. Piety was rapidly waning, and Satan seemed about to gain the ascendancy over those who claimed to be followers of Christ. {AA 580.2}

[Twilight]

This isn't to say God doesn't give the victory of these things in the way sky has described. Perhaps our unbelief gets in the way, or perhaps we don't really want to give the given thing up yet, or it could just be something difficult to deal with, say something like getting irritated. Maybe there are physical causes that need to be dealt with (like exercise, getting enough rest, diet, etc.).

I would agree with this in principle.

[Guest]

This didn't work too well in Israel as the leaders of Israel were constantly upset with Jesus for bringing to light new and different information that went against what God had revealed to them before Jesus arrived on the scene.

WRONG!!

If they had properly understood the scriptures, and what had already been revealed, then they would have had no problem with anything Jesus said or taught. They would have accepted him.

In no way shape or form did jesus bring different information than what God had already revealed. God doesn't work that way. He doesn't send a lie first, and then the truth later on. Which is exactly what you are saying here.

Jesus fulfilled what the prophets had foretold perfectly. It did NOT change to something new and different like you have said.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not....

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

I'm curious...what is it that Jesus said, that you think went AGAINST what God had already revealed?

[Guest]

If Jesus had showed them things that went against what God had revealed, like you have said, then the leaders of Israel would not have been at fault.

They would have only been walking in the light that God had given them. And God doesn't fault people for that.

[skyblue888]

But I'm not talking here about God's choosing an individual as a prophet and giving them visions. That's a seperate issue from the one I'm referring to. I'm referring to situations where people believe they have "light" from the Scripture that is contrary to the fundamental doctrines of the church. If there is such "light," the individual who believes he has discovered it and believes God is leading him in that discovery ought to submit the light before leaders in the church for them to decide if there is truth in the "light."

John317

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John, look at John the Baptist, for example. It is written that "The Lord gave him his message. Did he go to the priests and rulers and ask if he might proclaim this message?--No, God put him away from them that he might not be influenced by their spirit and teaching." 1 S.M.410.

Why was it necessary for God to take the Baptist away from the priests and rulers? That he might not be influenced by their spirit and teaching! Isn't that odd that when God wants to give light to His people He has to bypass the "spiritual leaders" of the church, that He has to take His messenger(s) away from them so that he/they will not be influenced by their spirit and teaching!

Yet this is the scenario that has been repeated just about every single time in all ages of the world.

Notice the case of Nathanael. We read, "If Nathanael had trusted to the rabbis for guidance, he would never have found Jesus." Desire of Ages, p.140.

Now the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul warns us that "All these things happened unto them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come." 1 Cor.10:11.

Both John the Baptist and Jesus Himself and all the prophets who had come before them, and all the Reformers of the sixteenth Century who had come to the people with light from above were, by the "spiritual leaders" of their day, perceived as men whose "light" contradicted the "fundamental doctrines of the church."

"The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work." 2 S.M.390.

"There is nothing new under the sun. That which has been is that which shall be." Ecc.1:9.

What happened in 1888? The Lord was about to finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. He sent a most precious message to the church. If that message had been received, believed, and acted upon, it is said that in only two years the work would have been finished and Jesus would have come to take His people home.

What happened? "The light that is to lighten the whole earth with its glory was resisted, and by the action of our own brethren has been in a great degree kept away from the world." 1 S.M.235.

The "spiritual guideposts" of the church opposed the light and they hated and despised the bearers of that light. Mrs. White addressed them, saying, "How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness. God has given them His message. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." Testimonies to Ministers, p.96,97.

Today the grace of the Holy Spirit is offered to us again and again but only as we appropriate to ourselves the merits of Jesus Christ on a daily basis. See (T.M.93) Then the righteousness of Christ brought into the life will fill up the measure of the law's requirements, fulfilling every jot and tittle of the law of God. See (T.M.92)

sky

Of course we also read that "In the days of the apostles the most foolish heresies were presented as truth. History has been and will be repeated." 1 S.M.162,163. Have we not been exposed to "most foolish heresies" on this board?

[skyblue888]

When I was trying to overcome the habit of smoking (30 some years ago) I kept trying and trying and trying... is that what is meant by "habits that take time to overcome?" But the moment I said to God, "Lord I can't overcome this habit. You take care of it," I knew in my heart of hearts that the problem had been solved and it was. When I read that the habits of drinking coffee and tea and alcohol had to be given up because they were harmful, (including meat eating) I did the same thing. I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

sky

____________________________

Indeed.

Cleansing from sinful habit is based on this text:

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We confess.

He forgives.

He cleanses (removes).

Our part is to acknowledge our sin and accept by faith His gift of cleansing.

Twilight.

____________________

Right on!

sky

[skyblue888]

John it is a fact that the Advent People were called of God to illuminate the whole earth, to give the third angel's message which is a call to cease to look to man, calling a people away from the track of Romanism, a call to look to Christ alone and to His all-sufficient merits in order to obtain the righteousness which is of God by faith. But the church did not even accept that message but resisted the light. So how can we claim that the church is preaching the third angel's message today? On the contrary, the church is more and more becoming like the other churches, that is, like the world, while professing to be the church of the third angel's message!!!

sky

______________________________________

Whilst this is true Sky.

I think we are starting to see movement amongst Gods people.

They are starting to understand about the merits of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We may be seeing the revival, the early buds that so many of us have been waiting for and looking for in our own lives...

Twilight

__________________________

I agree.

It will be interesting to watch as Mrs. White was shown that in due time the true light will spread like fire in the stubble. See 1 S.M.118, last parg.

[Twilight]

DR Rich and MM.

Your claim is quite astounding really.

You are claiming that Peter had less light than yourselves.

That he could not tell that satan deceived him on the day of Pentecost, but you can tell.

Now Peter walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years.

He was personally instructed by Him for 40 days after the upper room.

He then became one of the spokesmen for the early Christian Church.

Of course he was not without mistakes.

But you are claiming here, more light than Peter...

And of course Paul.

Has God given each of you a specific vision or visitation that you want to share?

Wouldn't you need that kind of authority to prove your position?

What miracles have you performed lately?

Have you raised the dead, healed the crippled?

Where do you find this idea that you have more light than Peter himself?

Let alone Paul.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

And how do you know that you aren't deceived, like you claim Peter was.

Peter believed the "words of Jesus".

In fact he heard them first hand.

Jesus and Peter walked side by side for 3 1/2 years.

What makes your "light" supercede his?

[Twilight]

By what authority do you claim the pre-eminence over Peter?

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

This didn't work too well in Israel as the leaders of Israel were constantly upset with Jesus for bringing to light new and different information that went against what God had revealed to them before Jesus arrived on the scene.

WRONG!!

If they had properly understood the scriptures, and what had already been revealed, then they would have had no problem with anything Jesus said or taught. They would have accepted him.

In no way shape or form did jesus bring different information than what God had already revealed. God doesn't work that way. He doesn't send a lie first, and then the truth later on. Which is exactly what you are saying here.

Jesus fulfilled what the prophets had foretold perfectly. It did NOT change to something new and different like you have said.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not....

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

I'm curious...what is it that Jesus said, that you think went AGAINST what God had already revealed?

Richard and John,

You misunderstand my point. I am not saying that God was wrong in what He gave the prophets or John the Baptist; what I am saying is that the leadership of Israel (the church) misinterpreted it from the beginning, so when first John the Baptist and then Jesus came along teaching the truth about what the Scriptures said they (the leaders of Israel) believed they (John and Jesus) were wrong because they were not teaching what had been taught as truth for hundreds is not thousands of years.

This is exactly the same as is happening today. You honestly believe the SDA church has all the truth that is fit to print which came directly from the mouth of God to EGW, and in that the church believes and has declared so in FB #18. My point is that IF the church is incorrect in believing this then anyone that comes along and disagrees with that belief will automatically be seen as in error, even if what they are teaching comes directly from Scripture, and especially out of the mouth of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

In this case what I and others on this forum state as truth (on this basis) will be viewed as incorrect by those who believe as do you, even if I/we are right-merely based on the fact that we question the interpretation of Scripture that is held by the denomination.

[John317]

...."In the days of the apostles the most foolish heresies were presented as truth. History has been and will be repeated." 1 S.M.162,163.

Have we not been exposed to "most foolish heresies" on this board?

Yes, but thank God those heresies are held by individuals and not by the SDA church at large.

[Twilight]

John it is a fact that the Advent People were called of God to illuminate the whole earth, to give the third angel's message which is a call to cease to look to man, calling a people away from the track of Romanism, a call to look to Christ alone and to His all-sufficient merits in order to obtain the righteousness which is of God by faith. But the church did not even accept that message but resisted the light. So how can we claim that the church is preaching the third angel's message today? On the contrary, the church is more and more becoming like the other churches, that is, like the world, while professing to be the church of the third angel's message!!!

sky

______________________________________

Whilst this is true Sky.

I think we are starting to see movement amongst Gods people.

They are starting to understand about the merits of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We may be seeing the revival, the early buds that so many of us have been waiting for and looking for in our own lives...

Twilight

__________________________

I agree.

It will be interesting to watch as Mrs. White was shown that in due time the true light will spread like fire in the stubble. See 1 S.M.118, last parg.

Exciting times... :-)

[Twilight]

It is wonderful to watch the light bulbs come on.

Indeed to experience it in ones own heart and mind!

[Twilight]

In this case what I and others on this forum state as truth (on this basis) will be viewed as incorrect by those who believe as do you, even if I/we are right-merely based on the fact that we question the interpretation of Scripture that is held by the denomination.

I reject your position because it is not based on "Scripture".

But seeks to destroy the Canon by using the same argument as the "muslims".

Who also claim that it is inspired by Satan in many parts.

Do you realise you are presenting the same principles as them?

[John317]

....I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

Sure, sky. But does that mean God does the same thing for everyone?

Remember that Ellen White had a desire for meat long after she knew she should stop eating it, and you can be sure she prayed about it and asked God for strength to overcome those desires. God could take away all temptations from us, but there are good reasons he doesn't do this. Instead, God typically gives us strength to resist and overcome the temptations or evil desires.

But Homosexuality is not like having addictions to smoking or drinking coffee or even eating meat, etc. You're comparing apples and oranges. People aren't born having a desire to smoke or dink coffee, but there are people born with a definite predilection toward being homosexual. And even when not born with that predilection, the individual's mind undergoes changes from very early years, and the effects of these experiences are not wiped out in one day, just as people don't consciously decide to be attracted to their own gender in one day. In only rare cases is it something that people consciously choose to do. People don't wake up one morning and decide to be homosexual any more than people decide to be heterosexual.

[Guest]

In this case what I and others on this forum state as truth (on this basis) will be viewed as incorrect by those who believe as do you, even if I/we are right-merely based on the fact that we question the interpretation of Scripture that is held by the denomination.

Do you really believe that I just accept whatever the church says truth is, and believe it just because it comes from the church? Without even doing my own studying? What an insult! Get real!

I have found that the church as a whole IS wrong about some things. But as it turns out, the church is NOT wrong about the things YOU claim she is.

In fact most of what you have allowed yourself to be tricked into believing, is pure folly. Which is not all that surprising when I look at the whole picture.

You had already turned your back on the truth, and the church, BEFORE you discovered this AMAZING new direction. (which happens to be 180 degrees opposite the truth in almost every particular)

In fact you had already decided not to go back to church, or to have anything else to do with the church.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Thess 2:10,11

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

....I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

Sure, sky. But does that mean God does the same thing for everyone?

Remember that Ellen White had a desire for meat long after she knew she should stop eating it, and you can be sure she prayed about it and asked God for strength to overcome those desires. God could take away all temptations from us, but there are good reasons he doesn't do this. Instead, God typically gives us strength to resist and overcome the temptations or evil desires.

But Homosexuality is not like having addictions to smoking or drinking coffee or even eating meat, etc. You're comparing apples and oranges. People aren't born having a desire to smoke or dink coffee, but there are people born with a definite predilection toward being homosexual. And even when not born with that predilection, the individual's mind undergoes changes from very early years, and the effects of these experiences are not wiped out in one day, just as people don't consciously decide to be attracted to their own gender in one day. In only rare cases is it something that people consciously choose to do. People don't wake up one morning and decide to be homosexual any more than people decide to be heterosexual.

My younger brother has a different father to me.

His father was an alcoholic.

But my younger brother grew up in an Alcohol free home.

Yet for the last few years he has been battling alcoholism.

I think the sins of the Fathers do get carried on in the flesh.

All of them.

Our predisposition is therefore stronger in some areas than another.

But all sin is dealt with the same way, through God giving the victory, as we lay hold of it by faith.

Now some sin may have terrible temptation tied to it, but that does not make it different, just "stronger" perhaps?

[John317]

....John it is a fact that the Advent People were called of God to illuminate the whole earth, to give the third angel's message which is a call to cease to look to man, calling a people away from the track of Romanism, a call to look to Christ alone and to His all-sufficient merits in order to obtain the righteousness which is of God by faith. But the church did not even accept that message but resisted the light. So how can we claim that the church is preaching the third angel's message today? On the contrary, the church is more and more becoming like the other churches, that is, like the world, while professing to be the church of the third angel's message!!!

I don't disagree with you here, but what I'm saying is that Seventh-day Adventists know the message and many are living up to the light and giving it to others. I'm not claiming that the whole church is doing this. In fact, we know from Ellen White's writings that eventually a large portion (perhaps even the majority) of the church will leave and join Babylon, but their place will be taken by millions who hear the truth for the first time and gladly accept it.

I think God is trying to get us ready to be able to stand for the truth all by ourselves, despite what anyone else does or teaches. We won't be able to depend on pastors or teachers or anyone else but on God alone. I think we will find that even many of the church members we depended on will give up the truth when their lives are at stake. I can easily see the time coming when our very own pastor or Bible teacher will urge us to give up the Sabbath and the Investigative Judgment and such. Thats' why it's so essential for people to study the Bible and the SOP for themselves so they know what they believe and why, not depending on whether someone else believes those things. Truth doesn't depend on how many believe it.

[Twilight]

I often find myself pre-disposed to my Dad's sins.

[skyblue888]

I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

sky

__________________

Sure, sky. But does that mean God does the same thing for everyone?

Remember that Ellen White had a desire for meat long after she knew she should stop eating it, and you can be sure she prayed about it and asked God for strength to overcome those desires. God could take away all temptations from us, but there are good reasons he doesn't do this. Instead, God typically gives us strength to resist and overcome the temptations or evil desires.

But Homosexuality is not like having addictions to smoking or drinking coffee or even eating meat, etc. You're comparing apples and oranges. People aren't born having a desire to smoke or dink coffee, but there are people born with a definite predilection toward being homosexual. And even when not born with that predilection, the individual's mind undergoes changes from very early years, and the effect of these experiences are not wiped out in one day, just as people don't consciously decide to be attracted to their own gender in one day. In only rare cases is it something that people consciously choose to do. People don't wake up one morning and decide to be homosexual any more than people decide to be heterosexual.

John317

________________

John, my understanding is that Mrs. White was not quite ready to quit eating meat, hence she was struggling for a while. When the Lord delivered me from the filthy habit of smoking, I was ready. May be that is where the difference lies. I was ready and I believed the Lord could take the urge to smoke away from me for ever and He sure did! I believe He can do the same with anything. There is nothing too difficult for the Lord. Is not the Lord able to subdue all things unto Himself? It is all about how willing we are for Him to accomplish this for us, whether it be smoking, drinking, doing drugs, homosexuality, or anything sinful for that matter.

What then is the meaning of this simple, straightforward statement:

"Do you imagine you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once!" 1 S.M.327.

John, what's your take on this statement? I believe it is saying that through the merits of Christ we may be made "more than conquerors" over all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil. If we truly believe that and strongly desire to be delivered once and for all, on a daily basis, God does the impossible.

Please comment upon 1 S.M.327.

sky

[John317]

I often find myself pre-disposed to my Dad's sins.

I think this is one reason it's so important to do what we know is right, because what we do affects our children's lives for both good or wrong. So many sons grow up to be just like their dad even if they don't want to be. Heredity plays such a big part of this.

[skyblue888]

Of course we are all born, as far as our human nature is concerned, under the great law of heredity. I do believe that homosexuality and even the urge to smoke and drink or even our diet are passed on from generation to generation.

Homosexual tendencies may have been passed on to us from a great great grand parent, going back to the third or fourth generation,,, that we didn't even know about.

What do you think?

sky :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

This thread is beginning to sound very reminiscent of pagan "curses" to me. I don't like it. Makes me feel like I ought to be using my book of shadows again.

But...then...it really doesn't matter what I think.

Carry on.

[John317]

I think that's a good possibility. No doubt it skips generations but there's no question that our sins affect our children and our grandchildren, etc. Sin also has affected the development of fetus' because many are born with defects. Some children are actually born with the sex organs of both genders. None of this, of course, is God's fault or God's intention. It's all a consequence of the Fall.