Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[John317]

Those are all good and true quotes from Ellen White, but we need to study all that Ellen White said on the topic. She certainly did not mean for us to be ignorant of Satan's devices or to ignore signs and symptoms of Satan's temptations, attacks, harassments, control, and possession. As we proceed in this discussion, we will have opportunity to examine and talk about the things Ellen White and the Bible have to tell us in regard both to Christ's power and to Satan's plans and tactics.

[Rondo]

Hope this thread doesn't turn in to Paranoid City, when maybe our fears are our own lack of information. We need to guard ourselves against intellectual dishonesty. I see it among Adventist friends a lot. JUST SAYIN'

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hope this thread doesn't turn in to Paranoid City, when maybe our fears are our own lack of information. We need to guard ourselves against intellectual dishonesty. I see it among Adventist friends a lot. JUST SAYIN'

Rondo, please define what you mean by "intellectual dishonesty."

People need to remember that Satan does not operate within the boundaries of morals or a code of ethics. He is also not bound by the laws of physical science.

Satan is a liar and con-artist extraordinaire.

I'm tired.

[Overaged]

Hope this thread doesn't turn in to Paranoid City, when maybe our fears are our own lack of information. We need to guard ourselves against intellectual dishonesty. I see it among Adventist friends a lot. JUST SAYIN'

What on earth are you talking about?

[Overaged]

Of course; we MUST study Satan alongside of Jesus!!

[Musicman1228]

How does a Treasury agent learn to recognize a fake 20 dollar bill? By learning what a real 20 dollar bill looks like, and this so thoroughly that when he sees a fake bill it stands out like a sore thumb; the identification of the fake bill is no problem because the agent is so familiar with the real one.

This is what we need to do in understanding the truth that Jesus Christ presents to us. Jesus said:

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. Matt.24:4-5.

Here Jesus lays the blame for being deceived squarely on the shoulders of anyone that would call themselves His disciples. Did Jesus tell His own disciples that they would not be deceived because He would give them an infallible source for truth (the Bible or an end-time prophet)? NO. So how do we (like them) not become deceived? By studying Jesus Christ, His Words and His teachings so thoroughly that when we see a counterfeit it is easily recognizable as such. If we don't recognize the counterfeit then it is only because we did not know what Jesus said and taught. How can we with absolute surety be deceived? By believing that we can't. (This is one of Satan's greatest deceptions.)

What does a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' look like? Most Christians sincerely believe it looks like a wolf. But a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' looks like a SHEEP, not a wolf. This creature looks, and talks and walk EXACTLY like a sheep, and can easily fool someone that does not know and understand the differences.

God did not guarantee that we would be protected from this wolf because we have what we think is an infallible source for truth. The best lies are those that look so much like the truth as to be 'almost' identical. It is that pesky 'almost' that is the problem; which is why we must learn from Jesus what truth is, rather than from people who 'CLAIM' to be sent from God. If we don't prove our sources against the words and teachings of Jesus Christ then it will be our fault if we are one of the 5 Foolish bridesmaids (Matt.25:1-13), and left out of the marriage feast.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

MM, I mostly agree with you....but please don't turn this into another "red letter only" thread.. I, for one, would really appreciate it. :smile:

[Musicman1228]

MM, I mostly agree with you....but please don't turn this into another "red letter only" thread.. I, for one, would really appreciate it. :smile:

I most certainly will not turn this into a 'red letter' thread, as red letters indicate only that the editors of that particular edition of the Bible say that those are the words of Jesus. I do not. Yet for me I will only use the words of Jesus that are assured to be so by the eyewitness disciples that heard Him say these things as proof. You may, of course, use anyone you want as proof. Whether I believe that or not is another matter.

What is it, then, that you disagree with in my previous post?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What is it, then, that you disagree with in my previous post?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

So how do we (like them) not become deceived? By studying Jesus Christ, His Words and His teachings so thoroughly that when we see a counterfeit it is easily recognizable as such. If we don't recognize the counterfeit then it is only because we did not know what Jesus said and taught.

Even Satan's done that.

I agree we need to know what Jesus said, but we also need the Holy Spirit to provide us with discernment.

[Dr. Rich]

Didn't EGW write these words too:

“There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation.” Review and Herald 1892

She also said

“For His Church in every generation, God has a special truth and a special work... As in earlier ages, the special truths for this time are found, not with the ecclesiastical authorities, but with men and women who are not too learned or too wise to believe the word of God. Christ’s Object Lessons 78,79

Do not read the work in the light of former opinions; but, with a mind free from prejudice, search it carefully and prayerfully. If, as you read, conviction comes, and you see that your cherished opinions are not in harmony with the word, do not try to make the word fit these opinions. Make your opinions fit the word. Do not allow what you have believed or practiced in the past to control your understanding.” Messages to Young People 260

I think she also said something like "There is many, many things to unlearn and many thing still to learn".

So, what "NEW" things has anyone learned lately?

[Overaged]

"learning new things" may not always be the best path to take though Dr Rich:

Some have a natural independence which leads them to think more highly of their own judgment than of that of their brethren. In so doing they place themselves where they fail to obtain much knowledge that God would have them gain. The history of God's work in the past shows that some have an understanding of one thing, others of another. It is his plan that there should be a counseling together. In the multitude of counselors there is safety. There should be harmony in sentiment and action among the workers. Doctrines and plans should be compared with the law and the testimony. We should never feel too independent to learn of one another. While it is not according to God's plan that one man's mind shall control all other minds, he is not pleased to have individuals strike out on a new track, and present new theories independent of the body. {HS 125.1}

(1 Corinthians 3:13). Preach the Word, Omit the Chaff.--In regard to entering into the subject of the divine mystery of the essence of God, Christ ever maintained a wise reserve. He did this that He might close the door where human conjectures should not be encouraged. The most sacred, holy, and eternal mysteries which God has not revealed are but speculations when considered from a human standpoint, mere theories that confuse the mind. There are those who know the truth but do not practice it. These greatly long for some new, strange thing to present. In their great zeal to become original some will bring in fanciful ideas which are but chaff. Even now there is a descending from the sublime and living issues for this time to the ridiculous and fanciful, and sensational minds stand ready to catch up suppositions and guesses and human theories and false science as truth to be accepted and taught. {4BC 1157.4}

Never, never was there a time when the truth will suffer more from being misrepresented, belittled, demerited through the perverse disputings of men than in these last days. Men have brought themselves in with their heterogeneous mass of heresies which they represent as oracles for the people. The people are charmed with some strange, new thing, and are not wise in experience to discern the character of ideas that men may frame up as something. But to call it something of great consequence and tie it to the oracles of God does not make it truth. Oh, how this rebukes the low standard of piety in the churches. Men who want to present something original will conjure up things new and strange, and without consideration will step forward on these unstable theories that have been woven together as a precious theory. And present it as a life and death question. . . . {6BC 1064.6}

We have the truth, the solid truth in the Word of God, and all these speculations and theories would better be strangled in the cradle rather than nourished and

1065

brought to prominence. We are to hear the voice of God from His revealed Word, the sure word of prophecy {6BC 1064.7}

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

people are using "Ellen bullets" to intercept other "Ellen bullets".... this thread is getting weird...

[Musicman1228]

Could one of the 'old' things we must unlearn be that what we now believe to be true isn't, and our institutional arrogance that everything we now hold as true needs to give way to the humility of understanding that we don't know it all?

Name one thing in our current theological arsenal that could not use some further definition. All of it should be open to the scrutiny of the words and teachings of Jesus.

[John317]

...I will only use the words of Jesus that are assured to be so by the eyewitness disciples that heard Him say these things as proof. You may, of course, use anyone you want as proof. Whether I believe that or not is another matter.

If you or anyone else wants only to use the words of Jesus, that is their prerogative of course, but they shouldn't insist that others only use Christ's words in support of doctrine or practice, etc. That would be like if I only wanted to use the words of Paul or Moses, and I insisted that everything be supported by Paul or by Moses. The entire Bible is the authority for Christians, and you may disagree with that, but it's unhelpful to get stuck discussing the canon every time people talk about anything related to Christian teachings and beliefs.

I think it would be good if we started a discussion some time where the main subject would be the words of Jesus. It could be the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John or His words in all the Gospels.

[John317]

Of course; we MUST study Satan alongside of Jesus!!

I believe we need to study the whole Bible and everything God has revealed to us through the Spirit of propehcy, and that includes knowing Christ's enemy. It is essential that we have a clear understanding of what challenges face us in dealting with him and with those who are under his control and influence.

For instance, check out what Ellen White wrote in the following paragraphs in her book, Great Controversy:

Quote:

While men are ignorant of his devices, this vigilant foe is upon their track every moment. He is intruding his presence in every department of the household, in every street of our cities, in the churches, in the national councils, in the courts of justice, perplexing, deceiving, seducing, everywhere ruining the souls and bodies of men, women, and children, breaking up families, sowing hatred, emulation, strife, sedition, murder. And the Christian world seem to regard these things as though God had appointed them and they must exist.

Satan is continually seeking to overcome the people of God by breaking down the barriers which separate them from the world. Ancient Israel were enticed into sin when they ventured into forbidden association with the heathen. In a similar manner are modern Israel led astray. "The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:4. All who are not decided followers of Christ are servants of Satan. In the unregenerate heart there is love of sin and a disposition to cherish and excuse it. In the renewed heart there is hatred of sin and determined resistance against it. When Christians choose the society of the ungodly and unbelieving, they expose themselves to temptation. Satan conceals himself from view and stealthily draws his deceptive covering over their eyes. They cannot see that such company is calculated to do them harm; and while all the time assimilating to the world in character, words, and actions, they are becoming more and more blinded. GC 508.

The above passage makes it plain that Ellen White believed we need to give serious thought to this topic. That's the purpose of this discussion.

[John317]

Of course; we MUST study Satan alongside of Jesus!!

I don't see how we can study Jesus completely without also studying Jesus' enemy and "the accuser of the brethren."

Have you ever read C.S. Lewis' book, Screwtape Letters?

[Gordon1]

Quote:

"Time must be given for Satan to develop the principles which were the foundation of his government. The heavenly universe must see worked out the principles which Satan declared were superior to God's principles. God's order must be contrasted with Satan's order. The corrupting principles of Satan's rule must be revealed. The principles of righteousness expressed in God's law must be demonstrated as unchangeable, perfect, eternal." (Review & Herald, September 7, 1897 par. 10)

[Gordon1]

John, pls. add the source pp. from GC.

Thanks

[John317]

How does a Treasury agent learn to recognize a fake 20 dollar bill? By learning what a real 20 dollar bill looks like, and this so thoroughly that when he sees a fake bill it stands out like a sore thumb; the identification of the fake bill is no problem because the agent is so familiar with the real one.

This is what we need to do in understanding the truth that Jesus Christ presents to us. Jesus said:

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. Matt.24:4-5.

Here Jesus lays the blame for being deceived squarely on the shoulders of anyone that would call themselves His disciples....

What does a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' look like? Most Christians sincerely believe it looks like a wolf. But a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' looks like a SHEEP, not a wolf. This creature looks, and talks and walk EXACTLY like a sheep, and can easily fool someone that does not know and understand the differences.

... we must learn from Jesus what truth is, rather than from people who 'CLAIM' to be sent from God. If we don't prove our sources against the words and teachings of Jesus Christ then it will be our fault if we are one of the 5 Foolish bridesmaids (Matt.25:1-13), and left out of the marriage feast.

I agree with you in all of the above, MM. I would only add that it's not only the words of Jesus but the words of the entire Bible.

Yes, of course we certainly do need to study Christ and His life and words. But while on earth, Christ didn't reveal all the truth. He said Himself that there were things He couldn't teach the disciples at that time because they weren't ready to hear them. So Christ came to John on the Island of Patmos about 70 years after He ascended to heaven and revealed things to him that He wants us to know. One of those things Jesus wants us to understand is the battle that is being waged over our minds and hearts. Satan wants to enslave us, whereas Christ wants to set us free and keep us free to serve Him. That is the topic of this discussion: how to be free in Christ and how to avoid coming back under the control and influence of the Devil.

It's a very important topic, and for that reason we can be sure that Satan would like to keep people from seeing the truth about him. He gets angry when he sees his victims learning the truth, and he inspires people to resist all efforts to expose his deceptions and lies.

[John317]

I'm sorry I didn't give it before. Thanks for reminding me.

[John317]

“There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation.” Review and Herald 1892

“For His Church in every generation, God has a special truth and a special work... As in earlier ages, the special truths for this time are found, not with the ecclesiastical authorities, but with men and women who are not too learned or too wise to believe the word of God. Christ’s Object Lessons 78,79

Do not read the work in the light of former opinions; but, with a mind free from prejudice, search it carefully and prayerfully. If, as you read, conviction comes, and you see that your cherished opinions are not in harmony with the word, do not try to make the word fit these opinions. Make your opinions fit the word. Do not allow what you have believed or practiced in the past to control your understanding.” Messages to Young People 260

I think she also said something like "There is many, many things to unlearn and many thing still to learn".

All good and true, Dr. Rich. Thank you for those quotes.

While you're quoting her on this subject, it's best to consider everything she says about it lest we conclude she meant something that she didn't. One thing she wasn't saying is that God would send us light that contradicts what God sent before. It will no doubt contradict previous opinions and interpretations, but it won't contradict what God already sent through His prophets and apostles, including the messages He gave Ellen White for the church.

[John317]

Could one of the 'old' things we must unlearn be that what we now believe to be true isn't, and our institutional arrogance that everything we now hold as true needs to give way to the humility of understanding that we don't know it all?

Name one thing in our current theological arsenal that could not use some further definition. All of it should be open to the scrutiny of the words and teachings of Jesus.

Every generation of SDAs-- and in fact every generation of Christian believers-- must study and know for themselves the doctrines of the Bible, and know why they believe what they do. It is never enough merely to accept things because previous generations believed them. Truth, if it is really the truth, has nothing to fear from the closest scrutiny.

But it looks to me as if you're claiming that something is not true if Jesus didn't say it. I disagree with that viewpoint, but I do believe that it's necessary for all teachings to agree with what He taught.

[John317]

"learning new things" may not always be the best path to take though Dr Rich:

Some have a natural independence which leads them to think more highly of their own judgment than of that of their brethren. In so doing they place themselves where they fail to obtain much knowledge that God would have them gain..... While it is not according to God's plan that one man's mind shall control all other minds, he is not pleased to have individuals strike out on a new track, and present new theories independent of the body. {HS 125.1}

.... The most sacred, holy, and eternal mysteries which God has not revealed are but speculations when considered from a human standpoint, mere theories that confuse the mind. There are those who know the truth but do not practice it. These greatly long for some new, strange thing to present. In their great zeal to become original some will bring in fanciful ideas which are but chaff. {4BC 1157.4}

.... The people are charmed with some strange, new thing, and are not wise in experience to discern the character of ideas that men may frame up as something. But to call it something of great consequence and tie it to the oracles of God does not make it truth. Oh, how this rebukes the low standard of piety in the churches. Men who want to present something original will conjure up things new and strange, and without consideration will step forward on these unstable theories that have been woven together as a precious theory. And present it as a life and death question. . . . {6BC 1064.6}

We have the truth, the solid truth in the Word of God, and all these speculations and theories would better be strangled in the cradle rather than nourished and brought to prominence. We are to hear the voice of God from His revealed Word, the sure word of prophecy {6BC 1064.7}

Excellent, truth-filled passages and well worth repeating here, Overaged. Thanks for posting them.

[Overaged]

people are using "Ellen bullets" to intercept other "Ellen bullets".... this thread is getting weird...

Sorry - I didn't mean for anything I posted to come across as "Ellen Bullets." LOL, I havent heard that term before, but it is a good one. It happens far too often; I agree. My intention was just to show that when quoting Ellen White, or any other Christian writer; that the context of a quote is very important.

[Musicman1228]

John said, "The entire Bible is the authority for Christians,"

You know John, I had not thought about this that way before, but you are absolutely correct in the above statement. Therefore, this can mean only ONE thing; that I can no longer call myself a Christian.

However, I am and always will be a Bondservant and Follower of Jesus Christ, and an SDA (until they throw me out of the 'synagogue'). That is all the identity I need.