Is it ok to drink alcohol...?

[Woody]

I think that the church and EGW are wrong about caffine and alcohol. While I do not drink I do not refrain from caffine. I love a goood cup of coffee! There is so much truth in the SDA church that I would not let a minor issue such as alcohol or cafffeine keep me away from the church. To me saying that not obstaining is sin is a reach if one relies soley on the bible. EGW's interpretation, to me, is made more on her personal belief system and it is hard to prove indulgence is sin strictly from the word. As I was taught growing up SDA, the Bible before EGW. And for me there is a contradiction with what EGW asserts and what the Bible is actually saying.

Good Thoughts. Appreciate your honesty.

[Woody]

Doug, I think one can "uphold" the lifestyle without having to be silent on the issue. When asked about the SDA stance on alcohol and caffeine I give the churches position. I do not try to downplay the churches stance by bringing my Mountain Dew to potluck. However, in my house and in my daily life I choose to indulge in something that I believe is not a sin. Is it the best thing for me? No. Is it going to keep me from heaven-I don't believe it will. While I respect EGW and the contribution she has made to our church I do not believe that her interpretations of the bible are without error. I do not believe that the bible supports her point of view. As a SDA, I understand that bible comes before SOP and if their is ever a question we are to go with the bible.

Excellent.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: fccool

Richard...

Who says that all of her personal interpretations are from God? She changed her minds on many issues throughout her lifetime... so she obviously got it wrong somewhere somehow. Or are we make her out to be an Adventist Pope now?

Thank you! It's not all or nothing. Some of her writings are opinions based on her understanding and not inspired. However, we as SDA act as if we disagree with her opinion we are rejecting everything she says. I reject that I need to cover my hair when I go into the church as Paul advised, but that does not mean I am negating Paul's message. But this thread isn't about EGW. I am a SDA who drinks coffee, Coke, and Mountain Dew. I also believe the sin regarding alcohol is drunkeness rather than the actual drinking itself. I personally do not drink. EGW's advice is good, but the bible must be twisted to fit her point of view that these things are sin. The bible is pretty clear on what sin is. No need to draw conclusions. "Thou shalt not" usually is a good indicator of what sin is.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

What a convenient way to make her writings of none effect.

The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." Proverbs 29:18. Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony. {FLB 296}

What a convenient way to make anyone who disagrees with you to be "deceived by Satan"

Good Point. And about time someone pointed it out.

[Woody]

Can't dismiss it that lightly, though.

This means the visions are fallible.

The implications of that are HUGE for all of Adventism.

Another very important point. We must compare all we read (including from our prophet) to scripture. Prophets are human and can make mistakes.

[Woody]

Quote:

I feel sorry for the people living in our time who give up their confidence in the Spirit of prophecy. They will be like a ship without a sail or a rudder, at the mercy of the current and the wind.

Just how can that be possible when we have the Bible and the Holy Spirit? I ask that question assuming you are speaking of EGW. Surely you aren't saying that only those who find out about EGW can steer a straight course. You have just invalidated the experience of so many people you don't even know or have ever heard of. If you are only speaking of SDA's, I still fail to see why the Bible and the Holy Spirit can not lead a person, as the good lady said.

More and more excellent posts in this thread. I am impressed. Way to go guys.

[abelisle]

"The principle is that we should not see how close we can come to destroying God's temple and still remain relatively healthy, but we are to do all that we can to keep our body temples in the best possible condition. The Holy Spirit is telling us that just as the Shekinah glory of God inhabited the Holy Place in the tabernacle and the Temple, so the Holy Spirit indwells the believer, our bodies become holy and care must be taken not to defile them in any manner whatsoever.

A major reason for this principle is that there is a close relationship between the health of our bodies and our spiritual health" John 317

In response to John's statement and the general tenor of the various arguments being made here, I find it hypocritical that most Adventists talk "health reform" but just from physical observation, most don't practice it.

Instead we focus on vegetarianism, alcohol, drugs, and smoking rather than encourage a holistic approach to a healthy lifestyle, incorporating all aspects of what makes us God's creation.

Would we be even interested in participating in a thread condemning Adventists who don't get in at least an hour of exercise per day? I doubt it. But if one has an occasional alcoholic drink - my oh my!

Alex

[Woody]

[John317]

So even if you didn't accept EW as a prophet would you say that the practical benefits of "putting down"(now there's a phrase I haven't heard for awhile)outweighed the pleasures you had to give up? Or is it mostly a spiritual/mental thing?

With me it is mostly a spiritual/mental thing. I don't miss drinking alcohol or doing drugs at all. I do now and then drink decaffinated coffee, but I actually prefer Postum, which I drank as a kid. When I think back on my years of doing those things, it is almost as if it was another person who did them. They weren't true pleasures but illusions.

[fccool]

It's great that you can move on with your life free from these things that were damaging your life. Keep on keeping on.

[John317]

...But we must at all times and at all costs be unafraid of the truth.

I agree, Bravus. And according to Jesus, the word of God is the truth.

Here's some more truth in the news about alcohol:

Quote:

Alcohol kills more than AIDS, TB or violence:

… .By Stephanie Nebehay Stephanie Nebehay – Fri Feb 11, 7:03 am ET

GENEVA (Reuters) – Alcohol causes nearly 4 percent of deaths worldwide, more than AIDS, tuberculosis or violence, the World Health Organization warned on Friday.

Rising incomes have triggered more drinking in heavily populated countries in Africa and Asia, including India and South Africa, and binge drinking is a problem in many developed countries, the United Nations agency said.

Yet alcohol control policies are weak and remain a low priority for most governments despite drinking's heavy toll on society from road accidents, violence, disease, child neglect and job absenteeism, it said.

Approximately 2.5 million people die each year from alcohol related causes, the WHO said in its "Global Status Report on Alcohol and Health."

"The harmful use of alcohol is especially fatal for younger age groups and alcohol is the world's leading risk factor for death among males aged 15-59," the report found.

In Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), every fifth death is due to harmful drinking, the highest rate.

Binge drinking, which often leads to risky behavior, is now prevalent in Brazil, Kazakhstan, Mexico, Russia, South Africa and Ukraine, and rising elsewhere, according to the WHO.

"Worldwide, about 11 percent of drinkers have weekly heavy episodic drinking occasions, with men outnumbering women by four to one. Men consistently engage in hazardous drinking at much higher levels than women in all regions," the report said.

Health ministers from the WHO's 193 member states agreed last May to try to curb binge drinking and other growing forms of excessive alcohol use through higher taxes on alcoholic drinks and tighter marketing restrictions.

DISEASE AND INJURY

Alcohol is a causal factor in 60 types of diseases and injuries, according to WHO's first report on alcohol since 2004.

Its consumption has been linked to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, poisonings, road traffic accidents, violence, and several types of cancer, including cancers of the colorectum, breast, larynx and liver.

"Six or seven years ago we didn't have strong evidence of a causal relationship between drinking and breast cancer. Now we do," Vladimir Poznyak, head of WHO's substance abuse unit who coordinated the report, told Reuters.

Alcohol consumption rates vary greatly, from high levels in developed countries, to the lowest in North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, and southern Asia, whose large Muslim populations often abstain from drinking.

Homemade or illegally produced alcohol -- falling outside governmental controls and tax nets -- accounts for nearly 30 percent of total worldwide adult consumption. Some is toxic.

In France and other European countries with high levels of adult per capita consumption, heavy episodic drinking is rather low, suggesting more regular but moderate drinking patterns.

Light to moderate drinking can have a beneficial impact on heart disease and stroke, according to the WHO. "However, the beneficial cardio-protective effect of drinking disappears with heavy drinking occasions," it said.

One of the most effective ways to curb drinking, especially among young people, is to raise taxes, the report said. Setting age limits for buying and consuming alcohol, and regulating alcohol levels in drivers, also reduce abuse if enforced.

Some countries restrict marketing of alcoholic beverages or on the industry's sponsorship of sporting events.

"Yet not enough countries use these and other effective policy options to prevent death, disease and injury attributable to alcohol consumption," the WHO said.

Alcohol producers including Diageo and Anheuser Busch InBev have said they recognize the importance of industry self-regulation to address alcohol abuse and promote curbs on drunk drinking and illegal underage drinking.

But the brewer SABMiller has warned that policy measures like minimum pricing and high excise taxes on alcohol could cause more public health harm than good by leading more people to drink homemade or illegally produced alcohol.

[doug yowell]

But the brewer SABMiller has warned that policy measures like minimum pricing and high excise taxes on alcohol could cause more public health harm than good by leading more people to drink homemade or illegally produced alcohol.