bonnie Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie you can sit around the table with God drinking your budweiser Is that a redundancy? No,it has been referred to as a "awesome thought" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Originally Posted By: fccool I think that's one of the reasons young stay away from churches at miles length. Not because they want to drink or party, but because such comparisons are drawn out. Nonsense. Young people stay away from church because they want to drink and party and not be made to feel guilty about it.They don't leave the church because they're convinced that a glass of Chardonnay is not as dangerous as a line of coke. Hehe. Not all young persons who stay away from church do so because they are into drinking and partying; some of them do, in fact, stay away because of irrational thinking and poorly drawn analogies on the part of the SS teachers, elders and pastoral staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Hehe. Not all young persons who stay away from church do so because they are into drinking and partying; some of them do, in fact, stay away because of irrational thinking and poorly drawn analogies on the part of the SS teachers, elders and pastoral staff. I wouldn't think that all stay away because of any one particular reason except maybe that they have no commitment to the living Jesus Christ.But I'd be pretty confident that a much higher % stay away because they'd rather do the things that the Holy Spirit warns against rather than thinking they were a lot more rational and intelligent than those who have traveled the road before them.While most of us who hoed that row in the past find some of the extreme conclusions (Reefer Madness)rather detrimental to clear thinking none of us would think of staying away from the church because of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Originally Posted By: cricket Hehe. Not all young persons who stay away from church do so because they are into drinking and partying; some of them do, in fact, stay away because of irrational thinking and poorly drawn analogies on the part of the SS teachers, elders and pastoral staff. I wouldn't think that all stay away because of any one particular reason except maybe that they have no commitment to the living Jesus Christ.But I'd be pretty confident that a much higher % stay away because they'd rather do the things that the Holy Spirit warns against rather than thinking they were a lot more rational and intelligent than those who have traveled the road before them.While most of us who hoed that row in the past find some of the extreme conclusions (Reefer Madness)rather detrimental to clear thinking none of us would think of staying away from the church because of them. Why must it always be the fault of someone else.Someone drove them out,the teachers were not any good,the greeter didn't greet them correctly,the message is outdated? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 30, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 30, 2010 Good point, Bonnie. I left the church but it really had nothing to do with the other people in the church. I had good experiences and good memories of the church. I never blamed anyone in the church. I left simply because I lost my contact with Christ and wanted to experience the "world." Frankly, I was more attracted to doing my thing than Christ's thing. Most of the people I grew up with and went to school with finally left the church, and I believe their reason for leaving was the same as mine. I still have contact with some of these former class-mates, and one of them recently said that she doesn't know why she doesn't go to church. She doesn't blame the church or other people. A good number of my fellow students and friends returned to Christ and to the SDA church after having dropped out. I can't think of any of my classmates who blamed the church for their decision to leave. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: cricket Hehe. Not all young persons who stay away from church do so because they are into drinking and partying; some of them do, in fact, stay away because of irrational thinking and poorly drawn analogies on the part of the SS teachers, elders and pastoral staff. I wouldn't think that all stay away because of any one particular reason except maybe that they have no commitment to the living Jesus Christ.But I'd be pretty confident that a much higher % stay away because they'd rather do the things that the Holy Spirit warns against rather than thinking they were a lot more rational and intelligent than those who have traveled the road before them.While most of us who hoed that row in the past find some of the extreme conclusions (Reefer Madness)rather detrimental to clear thinking none of us would think of staying away from the church because of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Who wrote that it must always be the fault of someone else? I am not going thru the dozens of topics on this forum but you should not find a shortage,of schools,churches,pastors,teachers failing in most area's that are critical to keeping members within the church. First and foremost it begins in the home from infancy onward Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 Pfft, I expect the beer in heaven to be *much* better than (shudder) Budweiser. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 God's full glory-- which is the only glory there will be in heaven and on the new earth-- will destroy any sin or sinful/sinning person in his presence. Sin is anything that doesn't conform to God's character and will. That includes drinking alcohol. But if anyone couldn't make something better than Budwieser in heaven, it would definitely be a sin that should be immediately and severely punished.:-) How about a really good-tasting, non-alcoholic, healthy drink? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 God's full glory-- which is the only glory there will be in heaven and on the new earth-- will destroy any sin or sinful/sinning person in his presence. Sin is anything that doesn't conform to God's character and will. That includes drinking alcohol. But if anyone couldn't make something better than Budwieser in heaven, it would definitely be a sin that should be immediately and severely punished.:-) How about a really good-tasting, non-alcoholic, healthy drink? As to the quality of budweiser I would have no idea. I am stil trying to get by head around a beer swigging God with his disciples Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 the greeter didn't greet them correctly If the greeter had offered them a beer they would still be coming to church. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: bonnie the greeter didn't greet them correctly If the greeter had offered them a beer they would still be coming to church. Maybe in your church but in ours we don't offer beer.It is a greeting a short chat,bullitin and a place to be seated Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Maybe your church should serve wine and cheese then. We got to do something to keep the youth. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Just tagging on. If a little bit of alcohol is ok, may be a just a little bit of cocaine or speed or heroin is ok? This is a typical false slippery slope argument that any pastor eventually propose... just like those man-eating shrimp stories I mean, seriously? Do I really have to make a distinction between lightly fermented grape juice, and heroine that you injest into your blood stream via needle? Do you see anything wrong with such mentality of exaggeration? I think that's one of the reasons young stay away from churches at miles length. Not because they want to drink or party, but because such comparisons are drawn out. Is eating an apple with apple seed really the same as popping micro-cyanide caps? Do I really have to explain the difference here? Well, seriously. If a little alcohol is ok, then why not a little cocaine, or speed, or marihuana for the same reason that you use alcohol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Maybe your church should serve wine and cheese then. We got to do something to keep the youth. No the youth do not need that either. We do not seem to be losing to many.They are a active pathfinder group,lead out in song service,guitar and all,junior ushers,help maintain the church property etc. No one has mentioned they are leaving because they don't have any wine Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo But my body, being God's temple, is enough for me to avoid anything that could be detrimental to my body or possibly impair my inhibitions or judgment. Well-said, yet this is a statement that eventually leads to double-triple-quadrupal-standards... I.e. - I have to eat some food out of the package If there's nothing else to choose from, yes, you can eat out of a package. You don't HAVE to drink an alcoholic beverage UNLESS you're dying of thirst and there's absolutely nothing else to drink. Quote: - I have to have a sitting all day job What does that have to do with ETOH? BTW, you can take time to exercise outside your job. Quote: - I have to live in a crowded and smoggy place So why add another toxin to your body if you already live in a smoggy place? Quote: - I have to use non-organic hygienic products like fragrant soaps, colognes, shampoos and etc - I have to brush with a toothpaste that has poison warnings on it, and drink flouridated and chlorinated water - I have to use cell-phones that has potential in causing some damage to my body ... etc... etc... ditto, ditto, ditto. So, when you make the statement that you've made... does it just apply to alcohol and meat ? If the principle of moderation can be applied to the above, then why not to alcohol? Why double standards? Treating my body as God's temple to me means avoiding things that are harmful to my body whenever possible, and the use in moderation those things that are good for my body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Quote: - I have to eat some food out of the package [color:blue] Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Maybe your church should serve wine and cheese then. We got to do something to keep the youth. So in other words: "Let them serve Satan, or anything it takes. Whatever they want. Just as long as they're in church. After all, we've got to do something. This is no time to be worrying about what God says, this is serious." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Well, a church with guitar music probably doesn't need beer or wine. But cheese is good, especially cheesecake with strawberries and whip cream on top. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 It won't spoil heaven for me if there's no beer. Will it spoil it for you if there is? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 fccool's point had nothing at all to do with serving or approving the use of alcohol as a means of keeping youth in the church. It was all about avoiding giving spurious and dishonest reasons to the youth for what we believe. It's part of why telling the truth is important. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 It won't spoil heaven for me if there's no beer. Will it spoil it for you if there is? Yes I believe it would,especially to see God drinking beer Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 fccool's point had nothing at all to do with serving or approving the use of alcohol as a means of keeping youth in the church. It was all about avoiding giving spurious and dishonest reasons to the youth for what we believe. It's part of why telling the truth is important. But his point is worthless. People are guilty of giving spurious and dishonest reasons why they do all kinds of things. Athletes do this and yet it doesn't cause people to give up on sports. Politicians do this and yet it doesn't cause people to leave a particular political party. It is what we call grasping at straws and people from all walks of life do it. It is not the reason youth are leaving the church. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I am quite sure that if there is beer in heaven it will be the non-alcoholic variety. I also believe that the water Jesus turned into wine was the non-alcoholic variety - which is why the governor of the feast was impressed with it. In those days, without refrigeration, it was hard to keep fresh grape juice without it fermenting. So, if Jesus is drinking a non-alcoholic beer, I would expect it to be better than Sharps or O'Doul's and I wouldn't mind having one of those myself. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2010 I believe the things we'll enjoy in heaven and on the new earth and on the planets we'll visit will make us forget all about beer and will be far far better than anything we've ever eaten or drunk here. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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