Should Adventists Get Out of the Abortion Business?

[Nic Samojluk]

Allow me to post here some commnets I submitted to the Washington Post in response to the article dealing with Mark Price' removal of his "Adventis for Life" Facebook page.

The Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion” not only allow for abortion when the life of the mother is in danger, but also for mental health reasons. This means that the woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy can say: “I am mentally depressed. This pregnancy drives me crazy and I can’t sleep at night. I am not financially nor emotionally ready to have a baby and I desperately need an abortion.”

This is evidence that my church is on the side of abortion instead of life. It has compromised a moral principle held dear to the Adventist pioneers who condemned the practice of abortion on biblical principles in the strongest terms. A former leader of the church publicly announced back in 1970 that our church was leaning towards abortion because there were too many people and too much hunger in the world, and he said this in the richest country of the world.

This reminds me of an Adventist named Desmond T. Doss who stuck to his respect for human life, refused to bear arms even for self protection, was ridiculed by his fellow soldiers, was threatened with a court martial, endured deprivation, and risked his life on many circumstances while the bullets were flying around him, and persisted in his mission of saving the lives of wounded soldiers and was finally granted the medal of honor for outstanding service to the country by President Truman.

What a contrast we have been exhibiting today by permitting our Adventist hospitals o engage in the highly lucrative business of killing innocent babies. We call the procedure “therapeutic abortion.” Killing has never been a therapy and it will never be morally justified as a therapy. My church needs to repent of his great sin against the Creator of life.

Yes, the trademark is a legal issue for the courts to decide but who has the deep pockets to go against the church? By the way, this has already been decided by one court, and the judge ruled against the church, but the church keeps taking legal action against individuals who dare to ignore its wishes knowing that most defendants do not have the financial means to defend themselves in court.

[Nic Samojluk]

Quote:

May the good Lord have mercy on the Adventist Church

I think we ALL need mercy. But I also think that those in both sides of this issue need an extra dose.

Yes, we all do. Only the Lord knows who needs and extra dose of his mercy. I will not dare to guess.

[Woody]

Quote:

Only the Lord knows who needs and extra dose of his mercy. I will not dare to guess.

Oh I thought you indicated the Adventist Church needed it. I'm confused.

[Nic Samojluk]

Oh I thought you indicated the Adventist Church needed it. I'm confused.

The church needs it, I need it, and you need it too. Were it not for God's mecy, we would all perish. Nevertheless, only the Lord knows who needs his mercy the most. It is probably the one who feels that he has no need of it.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Oh I thought you indicated the Adventist Church needed it. I'm confused.

The church needs it, I need it, and you need it too. Were it not for God's mecy, we would all perish. Nevertheless, only the Lord knows who needs his mercy the most. It is probably the one who feels that he has no need of it.

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers to the children of the third and fourth generations of those who hate me,but showing mercy to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."...Whoever confesses his sins and forsakes them WILL have mercy." ...If you do well,will you not be accepted? And if you do not well,sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you..." Only the Lord knows??

[Nic Samojluk]

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers to the children of the third and fourth generations of those who hate me,but showing mercy to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."

"Whoever confesses his sins and forsakes them WILL have mercy."

"If you do well,will you not be accepted? And if you do not well,sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you..."

Thanks for these excellent and timely quotes!

[karl]

I found the following posted at "Beliefnet" here: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread...tion_Supporters

Quote:

As you already quoted in your original quote, yes, the SDA church says it's okay to abort a baby. In fact, their hospitals will even provide the service. My mother is a nurse at one of their major hospitals and has confirmed for me that they do provide abortions.

In case you were worried about something serious though, the hospital DOES NOT allow pork to be eaten in the cafeteria. Too bad the aborted babies weren't baby pigs, they would stand a better chance of living.

I hate that my church is so wishy-washy on the subject of abortion that something like this can be posted in the Christian community.

[MariaS]

Not only that I hate to hear it, but I think this very act is out of a Christian mind.

It is a shame and I am very thankful that I am in a country that is still holding on to the commandement of God "Thou shalt not Kill"

[doug yowell]

I hate that my church is so wishy-washy on the subject of abortion that something like this can be posted in the Christian community.

Me too. It's embarrassing.On the other hand, if the church is willingly allowing elective abortions in it's hospitals, then maybe it's not so wishy-washy.What's equally embarrassing is the feeble attempts of the one poster to portray the wishy-washy as unmistakenly crystal clear.

[Nic Samojluk]

I found the following posted at "Beliefnet" here: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread...tion_Supporters

Quote:

As you already quoted in your original quote, yes, the SDA church says it's okay to abort a baby. In fact, their hospitals will even provide the service. My mother is a nurse at one of their major hospitals and has confirmed for me that they do provide abortions.

In case you were worried about something serious though, the hospital DOES NOT allow pork to be eaten in the cafeteria. Too bad the aborted babies weren't baby pigs, they would stand a better chance of living.

I hate that my church is so wishy-washy on the subject of abortion that something like this can be posted in the Christian community.

You might be aware that some years ago the Washington Post reported that in a seven year period our Washington Adventist Hospital performed 1494 abortions. To kind of balance this, Dr. Bailey from the Loma Linda University Medical Center is saving the lives of an average of five babies per year born with a defective heart condition. This means that while in one Adventist hospital the lives of babies are being saved at a cost exceeding six figures, in other Adventist hospitals perfectly formed babies are being killed at a cost which probably does not exceed $ 1,000 dollars.

And you may also know that our Castle Memorial Hospital in Hawaii began offering elective abortions to their patients back in 1970—three years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion. We seem to have led the way in the killing of innocent babies. How can we with a straight face still claim to be the Remnant Church of God which keeps God’s Commandments, one of which forbids murder?

Have we not done to the Sixth Commandment what the Catholic Church did to the Fourth one? We used to describe Rome as the Beast of Revelation. Strange, isn’t it? Rome is protecting innocent babies from a sure death, while we, the Remnant, are killing them in our hospitals. Can someone explain this to me?

[Nic Samojluk]

Yes, you are lucky. I am lucky as well, because I grew up in Argentina where abortion is still illegal, as far as I understand. One of the bloggers suggested that, since I am pro-life, perhaps I should leave the Adventist church. I responded that when I joined the church by baptism the Adventist church was pro-life in the entire world.

I have no need to leave the church I joined. I remain faithful to the church I joined, and I have evidence that in Argentina the Adventist church is still pro-life. Not long ago, the dean of the faculty of medicine of our “Universidad Adventist del Plata” there assured me that this was the case.

The same can be said about Europe and Africa. A friend of mine who lives in Germany told me that when he was in charge of the medical work in South America, Africa and Europe, our Adventist hospitals were not allowed to perform abortions in the hospitals under his care.

This liberal attitude towards abortion among Adventists started in Hawaii three years before the legalization of abortion in the U.S. Our church seems to have lead the way in this modern genocide. It was done for the sake of profit. This was reported in “Spectrum” some years ago under the title “The Wisdom of Solomon” written by George Gainer. Half of the non-Adventist staff at our Castle Memorial Hospital demanded the right to offer abortion services to their clients and threatened to take their abortion patients elsewhere if their request was not granted. The church yielded to the pressure for fear that the hospital might not survive the financial loss.

We need to pray for our church and ask God to lead our church to repentance, confession, and forgiveness!

[MariaS]

Doug and Nic,

Its not illegal in Malaysia but its condemned in our Adventist Hospital which I am very thankful of. Even the non SDA doctors who are working in our adventist hospital are prohibited to perform it. We also dont metioned abortion at all in our society. A person who perform abortion or found pregnant outside of wedlock is considered immoral person. its s great shame to the family and to the person.

I like what you have written here, Keep sharing and GBU.

[doug yowell]

Doug and Nic,

Its not illegal in Malaysia but its condemned in our Adventist Hospital which I am very thankful of. Even the non SDA doctors who are working in our adventist hospital are prohibited to perform it. We also dont metioned abortion at all in our society. A person who perform abortion or found pregnant outside of wedlock is considered immoral person. its s great shame to the family and to the person.

I like what you have written here, Keep sharing and GBU.

Now, that's some good news!! Thanks Maria.

[SivartM]

How is it good news that women are ostracized just for being pregnant when not legally married, and they can't get abortions even if they're medically necessary?

[Nic Samojluk]

Doug and Nic,

Its not illegal in Malaysia but its condemned in our Adventist Hospital which I am very thankful of. Even the non SDA doctors who are working in our adventist hospital are prohibited to perform it. We also dont metioned abortion at all in our society. A person who perform abortion or found pregnant outside of wedlock is considered immoral person. its s great shame to the family and to the person.

I like what you have written here, Keep sharing and GBU.

I wish the Adventist leaders would hear your testimony. Thanks!

[doug yowell]

How is it good news that women are ostracized just for being pregnant when not legally married, and they can't get abortions even if they're medically necessary?

1) What's wrong with being shameful(not ostracized,you added that)if found pregnant outside of marriage? Being pregnant isn't shameful,being pregnant is simply the evidence of something else that's shameful if you're not married. Abortion is simply the contemporary method of destroying the evidence.2)Who said they can't get abortions if they are medically necessary? Our discussion has been focused on elective abortions which excludes life of the mother situations.You may be reading into the mix something that may not be a problem.

[Nic Samojluk]

How is it good news that women are ostracized just for being pregnant when not legally married, and they can't get abortions even if they're medically necessary?

Where is your sense of fairness? All your sympathy is only for the woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy. How about equal concern for the innocent unborn baby? Isn’t the unborn a human being as well who deserves mercy as well? Justice should be blind and distributed equally to all parties and not partial to only one of the human beings involved.

Why can’t both the woman and the baby live? Consider the case of Hagar, Abraham’s concubine. The birth of her son was the result of Abraham and Sara’s lack of faith in God’s promises, and Hagar found herself in the desert with her son, Ishmael, dying of thirst. Didn’t God show mercy towards her and her son and both of them lived? Why can’t you show the same concern towards both the pregnant woman and her baby?

[SivartM]

Where is your sense of fairness? All your sympathy is only for the woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy. How about equal concern for the innocent unborn baby? Isn’t the unborn a human being as well who deserves mercy as well? Justice should be blind and distributed equally to all parties and not partial to only one of the human beings involved.

[bonnie]

Sometimes they both can't live. What would you do then? Many Catholic hospitals let the women die.

Can you back up "many catholic hospitals let the women die?

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: Sivart

Sometimes they both can't live. What would you do then? Many Catholic hospitals let the women die.

Can you back up "many catholic hospitals let the women die?

I should say "would let women die".

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c2.htm

[Nic Samojluk]

SivartM said: “The baby has not had experiences, it has no sense of self, and no hopes and dreams.”

Nic Responds: Would you have aborted Jesus when it was a developing baby with no “sense of self , and no hopes and dreams”?

SivartM said: “don't you think the person who already has those things should be the higher priority?”

Nic Responds: Yes, provided both of them are doomed to a certain death. A good example is an ectopic pregnancy. But “No” if both have a good chance of living.

SivartM said: “Sometimes they both can't live. What would you do then?”

Nic Responds: If both are facing a certain death, then saving one life instead of loosing two is still pro-life.

[SivartM]

Nic Responds: Would you have aborted Jesus when it was a developing baby with no “sense of self , and no hopes and dreams”?

[Nic Samojluk]

Which one would you rather save?

This is not for me to decide. Most people in such a situation would probably save the life of the woman if there is no way to save both the mother and her baby.